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KaRmOnKeY

AP BOMBS overpowered(and cvs generally)

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40 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

Most ships in random are not fully AA specced, let alone have 19 point captains on them.

 

Indeed. AA progression as a whole is extremely nonsensical. Heck, in the USN cruiser line you actually get downgraded going from T6 to T7/8, only to skyrocket with Balti. Amagi is almost untouchable by same tier CVs when fully AA spec'd, but has garbage AA when you only take one or two skills/upgrades (if any at all). The power jump from T8 planes to T9 ones is ludicrous due to the sixth upgrade slot. And so forth and so on.

 

Thus removing a large amount of the AA and plane HP skills/upgrades and balancing largely around base values while making both actually get progressively better instead of the ridiculous jumps we have now would imo be a good way to address that. In addition, shift some of the AA of BBs to cruisers to make the former more dependent on the latter instead of being straight up good against everything.

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Same story as usual:

A tomato (BB/CA/DD) meets a unicum (mainly) CV player.........

Yes CV are OP in the hands of good players (have 2 of the top 10 EU server CV players in my clan)

But:

- My phoenix-svietlana are OP against seals/tomatoes

- My Pensa-NO-DM are OP against seals/tomatoes

and I am far from being a top player........

 

 

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5 hours ago, Lord_WC said:

Considering you have 10% higher win rate in your CVs than any other ship type (and basically every CV apologist that posted on this forum), it's pretty safe to assume that CVs are really imbalanced.

Failed. Hard. 

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4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

In addition, shift some of the AA of BBs to cruisers to make the former more dependent on the latter instead of being straight up good against everything.

 

Or at the very least make the AA system a bit more reliable, with a better progression in strength of AA.


There's still nothing worse than playing a decent AA ship, seeing a bunch of planes coming, and because of RNG most of them drop their payload only to then get shot down on their way back, then hopping in a CV yourself, flying within a few kilometers of a DD and getting one of your planes shot down almost immediately.

Oscar winning representation of my reaction when that happened:

Spoiler

PNcWMu5.gif

 

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Played four Langley games a long time ago, was not impressed and so like most players left the CV scene and just waved my fist at them when in OP! Anger when they sank my BB. However a couple of months ago I and many others realised they were a dying breed so resurrected the old Langley. A hundred odd games and Ranger territory I can assure you they are NOT overpowered and by far the hardest class to play even to a bang average level. So intense is the multi tasking involved I can only play a couple of games and then have to wind down with a meander in a BB. The one thing I have noticed is the RL time constraints on CV play, if you are having a good game then you will still be there after 20 mins or close too, so in one hour you could get only possibly three games in. In the other classes I can easily get six or seven games in, especially if I am being potato king!

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On 7/8/2017 at 3:10 AM, avenger121 said:

 

Yeah turning bow on for 20-30s makes you hump the blue line together with the idiots, which is the best way to play as you are constantly suggesting.

 

 

CVs are long overdue for some huge nerfs, dmg output needs to be halfed at least, if that is even enough to make them balanced.

 

CVs sit 5-10% ahead of BBs, but this tool thinks they need a 50% nerf.

 

*Edited

Edited by Nohe21
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to disrespectful comments.
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[GWOJ]
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7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I guess DDs are overpowered as well then?

 

 

 

Read pls?

 

The things is, there are ways to avoid torpedos, in particular by teaming up with others. There is no way to avoid the CV because even defensive AA doesn't scare him.

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1 minute ago, Dampfboot said:

 

The things is, there are ways to avoid torpedos, in particular by teaming up with others. There is no way to avoid the CV because even defensive AA doesn't scare him.

 

So you've never played any CV ever.

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7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

CVs were always the primary anti-DD tool. It's with their disappearance that things such as radar and RPF appeared, which would obviously cause hilarious problems if CV numbers ever recovered.

And that what make me to a large degree dislike CVs in this game. Their primary tasks are to different to what they were in real life. A real admiral that in a balanced naval battle used his carrier planes to spot and hunt destroyers would either be shot or sent to an insane asylum. Yes, I know this is not a simulation and that is good really, but I also prefer that such a game have something in common with the theme it is depicting, something the CVs in this game to a very little degree have. 

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11 minutes ago, steviln said:

And that what make me to a large degree dislike CVs in this game. Their primary tasks are to different to what they were in real life. A real admiral that in a balanced naval battle used his carrier planes to spot and hunt destroyers would either be shot or sent to an insane asylum. Yes, I know this is not a simulation and that is good really, but I also prefer that such a game have something in common with the theme it is depicting, something the CVs in this game to a very little degree have. 

 

Cool, so lets also reduce BBs to have a choice of "movable artillery to attack land targets" or "AAA cover for your fleets CVs".

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Just now, AgarwaenME said:

Cool, so lets also reduce BBs to have a choice of "movable artillery to attack land targets" or "AAA cover for your fleets CVs".

However, they were designed to fight other surface ships. That is the difference: CVs in the game are used ways they were neither were designed for or did actually do much. In real battles the CVs would mostly fight each other and only go after surface ships actively after the enemy CVs were sunk. As such, this game seems to be based on the battle of Leyte only, and that was a very special and unusal naval battle. 

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Just now, steviln said:

However, they were designed to fight other surface ships. That is the difference: CVs in the game are used ways they were neither were designed for or did actually do much. In real battles the CVs would mostly fight each other and only go after surface ships actively after the enemy CVs were sunk. As such, this game seems to be based on the battle of Leyte only, and that was a very special and unusal naval battle. 

 

And CVs were designed to.. guess what... sink surface ships.

 

The reason CVs went after other CVs first was that they were the largest threat against them, which is why every ship were lining up along them to provide AAA cover for the CVs. When CVs didn't have other CVs threatening them (which was often, especially in the later stages of the war) they spent their time attacking both surface ships and land targets, which they did with incredible efficiency (which is why CVs got focused by enemy CVs first).

 

Ie, you're just (as usual) desperate to call one ship class "unrealistic" in whatever fashion you can find and ignore every way "realism" doesn't fit your own bias.

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I month back i posted ... a Quote..... hm... what was it .... yes ! 

 

IF you get taget by a CV then you have done some thing WRONG..... 

Curse CV only taget Easy ships since we love planes and they are limite. we are not OP us CVs...

 

 

mang

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9 hours ago, KaRmOnKeY said:

OPs posts

 

 

8 hours ago, avenger121 said:

Avengers posts

 

Oh boy this is going to be good.

 

Firstly: AP bombs are not overpowered. If you tell a good CV player that he will loose the ability to stack dots on enemy ships, he will look at you and say what do I get in return?  And you can say that he gets the shock and awe. He gets the ability to instantly delete a german BB (who up to this point was used to being unasalible). Why is the instantly in italics? Becase CVs were able to do that even before! But we had to stack dots and wait. The end damage will end up the same.

 

Secondly: If you have problems dealing with CVs by yourself, try first speccing for AA. As a Midway captain I can tell you that even Monty, when specced for AA, has the power to wipe squadrons from the air like nothing. 

 

Thirdly: I went through your profiles. Both of you. And guess how many CVs game you have in total?

 

Oh that's it - Zero. Nada. Not. A. Single. One. 

 

If you truly believe that CVs are this OP menace that has to be nerfed to the ground, why not join them? Why not be the guy who does "gazilions of damage" and "influences the whole teams movement?" It surely can't be your lack of skill, to play one, since you obviously have played so much of them and know that they are sooo OP... Oh wait you have not.

 

What is the first thing you will learn when developing a strategy? KNOW YOUR ENEMY! Come back to the forums when you have at least 200 games in them. Then we can talk.

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I am pretty new to CV's. Just 100 games. I have all the premium carriers and I am probably above average in them, I would never say I was really good. The thing that players do not realise is that they are incredibly RIDICULOUSLY hard to play and require some kind of super computer multi tasking brain to manage all of your squadrons at once. At high tiers where AA is so powerful there are many ships that are basically invincible to carriers. Unlike most ships your damage dealing capability is basically limited by your ammo (planes) and it's pretty easy to lose a lot. The game you play is completely dependant on your opponent and MM. If you are up against a bad CV player you can dominate the battle as long as MM is kind. I often find that when I play a decent opponent I am completely taken out of the battle by them as you spend most of the time concentrating on moves and counter moves of the planes. I agree that in some respects CV's are far too strong (and btw Enterprise is not OP at all, if your getting bombed then turn hard) but generally they are super tough to play and good plays are rewarded in the same way other ships are. If I was WG I would tone down the fighter vs fighter element - strafing is a pretty horrid, clunky mechanic. I would reduce AA across the board but also reduce the CV's ability to wipe out a player in a single attack and perma spot a DD.

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17 minutes ago, bigbramble said:

I am pretty new to CV's. Just 100 games. I have all the premium carriers and I am probably above average in them, I would never say I was really good. The thing that players do not realise is that they are incredibly RIDICULOUSLY hard to play and require some kind of super computer multi tasking brain to manage all of your squadrons at once. At high tiers where AA is so powerful there are many ships that are basically invincible to carriers. Unlike most ships your damage dealing capability is basically limited by your ammo (planes) and it's pretty easy to lose a lot. The game you play is completely dependant on your opponent and MM. If you are up against a bad CV player you can dominate the battle as long as MM is kind. I often find that when I play a decent opponent I am completely taken out of the battle by them as you spend most of the time concentrating on moves and counter moves of the planes. I agree that in some respects CV's are far too strong (and btw Enterprise is not OP at all, if your getting bombed then turn hard) but generally they are super tough to play and good plays are rewarded in the same way other ships are. If I was WG I would tone down the fighter vs fighter element - strafing is a pretty horrid, clunky mechanic. I would reduce AA across the board but also reduce the CV's ability to wipe out a player in a single attack and perma spot a DD.

This.

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I slaughtered an Enterprises' planes with my Minotaur without even noticing that I was doing that -_- Does that make the Minotaur OP?

I had an Enterprise drop his AP bombs on my ARP Takao, barely doing any damage (granted, he knocked my torpedo tubes and rudder out).

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Yea you where the drop that made my Glass fill over.. 

And you are a good cv player and yes you killd me.. but just to clearify i was alone because we where killd of in my side and i was heading over to our baltimore thats the reason i was alone.. 

And be honest now do you think AP bombs are too OP

And regaurding cv generally.. i am talking cv from tier 7 and up especially Kaga saipan and enterprice and then 9 and 10.. 

And I am in any way or shape saying that it is too easy.. 

And most ppl cant do it.. 

But a unicum normal player bb, dd and cruiser have a what max 5 to 8 % inpact in the game.. but he can be countered and killd..

but a unicum cv player have a inpact of what 10 to 20 %

Plus they can pick of who ever he wants if they suddently find them more Than 5 km from other ships unless you are One of those godlike aa ships.. 

To sum up 

Good CV player have to big an inpact on the game 

And Yea i agree and different point system for cv more for spotting.. but this goes for dd aswell.. dont now how many games i have force spotted other ships not doing much Else then giving my team a chance to murder other team..

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To the person (*cough*) always claiming that CVs dictate a team's movement and controls the map...play a bit of low to mid tier CV, especially USN.

My experience in an Indy is this so far:

"Oh, a lonely Konig, time to line up a little st-...OH **** Cleveland behind an island, abort!"
[proceeds to waste a full minute looking for another target and fighting off the enemy fighter(s)]
"I guess I'll strike that lonely stock Furutaka then.."
[proceeds to strike for two torpedoes and have literally all the DBs miss despite not being panicked, because RNG]
"Time to rearm, I'll see you guys in two minutes"

Much wow. 

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Cv on t8_10 have nothing in common with lower tier play. On t8+ everything has good to great aaa. So peoples on Indy really can not comment cv play. 

 

Aslo 43% winrate monkeys = eveyrhing is OP against you But it is not the fault2 of other class but yours incompetence

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[KES]
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I did have a enterprise take 40k hit points and kill me in my shinnyhorse last week which was a bit of a surprise 

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16 minutes ago, 15JG52Adler said:

Cv on t8_10 have nothing in common with lower tier play. On t8+ everything has good to great aaa. So peoples on Indy really can not comment cv play. 

 

Aslo 43% winrate monkeys = eveyrhing is OP against you But it is not the fault2 of other class but yours incompetence


That's pretty much my point though isn't it?

People treat CVs as one single entity, as if CVs prior to tier8 could in any way control the map.
They really don't.
When people have a problem with CVs, what they mean is "I have a problem with the Taiho and the Haku", then project all of those two CVs' strengths onto all the other CVs.

I'm sorry but no, as an Indy, I never feel in control of anything.
I'm just along for the ride, strike a ship of two for very tame alpha damage and decent DoT damage, and spot a DD or two once in a while.

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8 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:


That's pretty much my point though isn't it?

People treat CVs as one single entity, as if CVs prior to tier8 could in any way control the map.
They really don't.
When people have a problem with CVs, what they mean is "I have a problem with the Taiho and the Haku", then project all of those two CVs' strengths onto all the other CVs.

I'm sorry but no, as an Indy, I never feel in control of anything.
I'm just along for the ride, strike a ship of two for very tame alpha damage and decent DoT damage, and spot a DD or two once in a while.

It is totaly wrong to think higher tier cv control map. Nop. They search for pockets of no deafly AAA bubbles and no enemie fighters. Minotaur and DM create no fly zone near the cap because they push. USA BS of 2 in 6 KM range are NONO. 

 

Cv looks for wholes in aaa to strike and spot. 

 

Lets talk turnaments....does cv control map? Only as spot. Not as strike. 

 

Cv kill noobs and spot competitive enemie but can not aproach. 

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3 minutes ago, 15JG52Adler said:

Cv kill noobs and spot competitive amelie

d0bm1vYTqy1F0lteg0qNP0oMKpZpUc-l_h264_38

 

spotted by carrier with deviant priorities

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