Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
KaRmOnKeY

AP BOMBS overpowered(and cvs generally)

397 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[AAO]
Players
1,224 posts
19,115 battles

The first part might strictly be a non-sequitur

(mind you it helps to know how limited in your options you can be in a cv, but let's let that slide here)

That, however does not mean that the contrary is true (cf all the good arguments against the proposition in this thread)

In the right hands they are very strong, no doubt about that and probably the best class to carry a game in (at least ijn ones+midway)

But as others pointed out they have their limits and weaknesses.

And a good (not bottom tier) cv-player vs a bad one is not that different from having bad dds vs good ones.

Either is gonna scew the match heavily but by no means a guaranteed win/loss.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
767 posts
8,555 battles
56 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

To quote you back to yourself: 

"The first part is a stupid argument."

Not only are you comparing two vehicles who are fundamentally similar (a biplane and a robot jet are both still planes), but the difference in power is also completely off.

CVs in this game are fundamentally different than other ships, <snip>

Yes, well, the point I was trying to illustrate that it is possible to know that something is OP without being skilled in playing it yourself. As long as you got that point, then it's all good. It doesn't have to be an exact analogy to the WOWs world.

 

The problem with moving the argument to the WOWs dimension is that the mirror MM and/or team composition/and/or battle type will always serve to cloud things up.

 

Even if we explicitly state that the enemy has a CV and you don't, it will be hard to agree on situations (1v1 or 12v12? Which map?) and odds ("if they teamplay then"... "Teamplay in randoms? Yeah, sure.") And so on.

 

I didn't want to go there. And it wasn't necessary to make the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[AAO]
Players
1,224 posts
19,115 battles
9 minutes ago, Phlogistoned said:

The problem with moving the argument to the WOWs dimension is that the mirror MM and/or team composition/and/or battle type will always serve to cloud things up.

 

You cite mirror MM as more of a fig leaf for "how op cvs are" than something that keeps them in line.

At least for me the majority of the time my attention is more on the fighters and the map than doing any actual dmg.

Half of that is because most of the time your strike-planes are en route to a target/your ship, but it's pretty major anyway.

Sure if one side is massively better your dps mostly restricted by flight time and aa

(itself two massive factors, so the implied "only" needs massive air-qoutes).

True, excluding bottom tier, a strike cv (ijn or us) without opposition is a massive powerhouse, but then it kind of has to be.

An unopposed shima running around would probably fall in the same category.

Because if the opponent is any good at fighter micro getting your strikes to connect in force can be a massive issue.

And even then your dps is pitiful. You get maybe 5-8 opportunities to do dmg, so those have to count.

Which, as has been mentioned get worse at the end when your reserves start running low.

9 minutes ago, Phlogistoned said:

[...]

("if they teamplay then"... "Teamplay in randoms? Yeah, sure.") And so on.

I know i'm quoting slightly out of context but since this is a common argument please let it slide.

 

You don't even need much teamplay. Just have 2 Bismarcks or NCs push a cap, so they're reasonably close together.

A T9+ strike cv doesn't care too much about that but anything below will think at least twice before comitting,

make it Montanas and it's getting kind of painful for any "fun-sized mobile agony and death dispensers" closing in.

Or any cruiser with DFAA sitting not too far away. Heck even a DD with DFAA is a massive pain in the [edited].

Not even mentioning Clevelands, Atlantas, Flints, Baltimores, Des Moines, Minotaurs, Neptunes, Kutuzovs, Hindenburgs ect.

So, not much teamwork required. Only going to the same place at a similar time.

(which somehow is still too much for some teams, but in that case you're usually screwed anyway)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
12,359 posts
17,495 battles
Spoiler

worldofwarships_2017_07_17_22_37_19_379.

Oh, look! Just three AA cruisers on the enemy team that covered both flanks. Could do nothing but pick off the three scrubs that isolated themselves and deny the enemy CV.

But OMG CV SO OP PLS NERF.

 

Seriously, you want CVs to have less influence? Solve BB overpopulation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
2,189 posts
14,460 battles
On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 0:59 AM, Phlogistoned said:

 

That's a new one. I'm actually only up to T9. Is that what you mean by sealclubbing? Or is it my 479 battles in Tirpitz you're referring to?

Nope, let's see: amount of games in a BB over 50%:

Tipritz is probably your credit maker / crew trainer for your German BB. Nothing wrong with that.

I was referring to your 350+ Fuso and 200+ Nagato games.

Oh yes, you made tier 9, after 4300 battles you finally made it there in two BB. So yeah,I call sealclubbing.

EDIT: maybe the reason you dislike CVs is your rather bad Cleveland stats. One of the prime counters to CVs in the mid tier games?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[EXCEL]
Beta Tester
86 posts
18,835 battles

BB's RNG is able (consistantly) to take 50-100% of Cruisers hp.

BB's RNG is able (consistantly) to take 50 % of DD's hp.

(when spotted) BB's RNG is able (consistantly) to take 50-100% of CV's HP.

 

Cruisers can chip away hp of a BB. Due heals or running away it can easily take 5-10 mins to kill one.

DD's can do 50% damage to a BB in one torpvolley IF his torps are not spotted by planes or hydro, If the BB player does not use WASD hacks. IF the DD is not spotted by planes or radar or other DD.

 

A CV can do 25%-75% damage to a BB once every 5-7 mins,if hes not protected by fighters, CA, AA BB, Lemmingtrains.

 

So with all those odds against the CV ,DD, CA, do u really mind that theres 1 ship that with playerskills, patience, overview can actually bring the hurt to a BB as the BB brings it to every other ship?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
160 posts
8,390 battles
17 hours ago, Mangrey said:

 sorry mate but it work the othere way around RL ... it is easy to see a torp from above and hard from the sea...

 

mang

I was talking game balance, not authenticity. No offence, but any game that punishes crossing the T while it was THE most succesful tactic in naval warfare at the time has nothing to do with authenticity.

For the sake of those who are keen on it though it still depends. Germans had electrical propelled torpedoes in the second half of the war. IJN Type 93 used compressed oxygen. In both cases exhaust gases were absent making them impossible to spot from a plane and very very hard to spot from a ship at any kind of distance.

 

ps: Funny that in game the type 93 is actually the most visible torpedo ^^ Once again, if you want authenticity, you shouldn't be playing wows :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
767 posts
8,555 battles
On 7/17/2017 at 10:05 PM, rnat said:

You cite mirror MM as more of a fig leaf for "how op cvs are" than something that keeps them in line.

At least for me the majority of the time my attention is more on the fighters and the map than doing any actual dmg.

Half of that is because most of the time your strike-planes are en route to a target/your ship, but it's pretty major anyway.

Sure if one side is massively better your dps mostly restricted by flight time and aa

(itself two massive factors, so the implied "only" needs massive air-qoutes).

True, excluding bottom tier, a strike cv (ijn or us) without opposition is a massive powerhouse, but then it kind of has to be.

An unopposed shima running around would probably fall in the same category.

Because if the opponent is any good at fighter micro getting your strikes to connect in force can be a massive issue.

And even then your dps is pitiful. You get maybe 5-8 opportunities to do dmg, so those have to count.

Which, as has been mentioned get worse at the end when your reserves start running low.

First: Thanks for being lucid and reasonable. I've discussed this a few times with other CV players, and by this point in the conversation they are usually raging incoherently.

 

Yes, I do see the mirror MM as a bit of a coverup for CVs being OP. Nice wording, by the way.

 

I used the jets vs. biplanes analogy before.

By always having another CV (jet) to worry about, you ensure that he doesn't devote all his time to swatting ships (biplanes).

 

And I do not see why a CV has to be a massive powerhouse. It should be sufficient if it were as big a powerhouse as any other non-CV ship.

 

A Shima is _not_ as big a powerhouse as a CV. Let's pick teams. You want the Shima or the Hakuryu for your team? Fine, I'll take the Hakuryu then. No?

 

When it's not an issue if you or the enemy gets a CV extra, or if one of the CV players is a total potato (or just potatoes that match), then CVs are balanced.

Right now, an extra CV on one side will most likely decide the game.

Same with a potato CV.

... so they aren't balanced.

 

017 at 10:05 PM, rnat said:

You don't even need much teamplay. Just have 2 Bismarcks or NCs push a cap, so they're reasonably close together.

A T9+ strike cv doesn't care too much about that but anything below will think at least twice before comitting,

make it Montanas and it's getting kind of painful for any "fun-sized mobile agony and death dispensers" closing in.

Or any cruiser with DFAA sitting not too far away. Heck even a DD with DFAA is a massive pain in the [edited].

Not even mentioning Clevelands, Atlantas, Flints, Baltimores, Des Moines, Minotaurs, Neptunes, Kutuzovs, Hindenburgs ect.

So, not much teamwork required. Only going to the same place at a similar time.

(which somehow is still too much for some teams, but in that case you're usually screwed anyway)

 

Yes, well... when one unit requires the coordinated effort of other units to take down, it's usually a clear sign that that unit is stronger than the other units.

 

And we're not even talking about taking the CV down, we're talking about making the CV's attack so painful to the CV, so he instead chooses another target.

 

But he still _can_ strike. And if he does, he will still strike hard.

 

It doesn't matter that it requires more skill to play CV than <insert  other class here>. Just as it doesn't matter that it requires more skill to pilot a jet than a biplane. It's still OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
12,359 posts
17,495 battles
4 hours ago, Phlogistoned said:

When it's not an issue if you or the enemy gets a CV extra, or if one of the CV players is a total potato (or just potatoes that match), then CVs are balanced.

 

So having an extra DD (that is competent) over the enemy isn't significant when there is no CV around (as is usual nowadays)? I'd love to know what game you're playing.

What you want is fundamentally impossible to achieve in this game or deviates far too much from the fundamental concept of what CVs (and the game in general) are supposed to be. You want CVs to have the same influence as any other ship class, which is a contradiction in itself as no ship class has even close to the same potential influence on a match. And if you balance the game around such an idea you'll never remotely achieve anything resembling balance since the potential influence a class can have is directly tied to the other classes. Nerf CVs, DDs inevitably become OP. Nerf DDs, BBs become OP. Nerf those, cruisers become OP. Nerf cruisers and you go right back to CVs being OP again.

 

If you however handle this game as a team one with an asymmetric class system, as it is meant to be, you can very much balance around that.

 

4 hours ago, Phlogistoned said:

A Shima is _not_ as big a powerhouse as a CV. Let's pick teams. You want the Shima or the Hakuryu for your team? Fine, I'll take the Hakuryu then. No?

 

That's incredibly situational and dependent on your own team composition and skill level as well as the enemy's, as you're ensuring an enemy carrier with your pick of one as well. That you're even bringing it up is ridiculous.

Fact remains that, if unchecked by a CV, a well played DD becomes just as, if not more influential than a CV. And yes, that is relevant because currently cruisers are in short supply, which is one of the various reasons why CVs are overperforming right now that have nothing to do with CVs.

 

Besides, CV limits have a more pragmatic reason as well. The game's performance would simply drop incredibly with four high tier CVs in a match back in CBT.

 

4 hours ago, Phlogistoned said:

Yes, well... when one unit requires the coordinated effort of other units to take down, it's usually a clear sign that that unit is stronger than the other units.

 

Yes, but if such a counter is easy to do and widely available (as it is now) it quite frankly doesn't matter how powerful such a unit is as it remains incredibly easy to shut down. Such a unit only becomes overpowered if the designed counter doesn't work. And as it stands now the counter very much works. That people don't use it is no longer a problem with CVs.

Again, that's on the same level as calling torpedoes overpowered because most potatoes don't WASD.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,199 posts
13,544 battles
7 hours ago, Phlogistoned said:

First: Thanks for being lucid and reasonable. I've discussed this a few times with other CV players, and by this point in the conversation they are usually raging incoherently.

 

Yes, I do see the mirror MM as a bit of a coverup for CVs being OP. Nice wording, by the way.

 

I used the jets vs. biplanes analogy before.

By always having another CV (jet) to worry about, you ensure that he doesn't devote all his time to swatting ships (biplanes).

 

And I do not see why a CV has to be a massive powerhouse. It should be sufficient if it were as big a powerhouse as any other non-CV ship.

 

A Shima is _not_ as big a powerhouse as a CV. Let's pick teams. You want the Shima or the Hakuryu for your team? Fine, I'll take the Hakuryu then. No?

 

When it's not an issue if you or the enemy gets a CV extra, or if one of the CV players is a total potato (or just potatoes that match), then CVs are balanced.

Right now, an extra CV on one side will most likely decide the game.

Same with a potato CV.

... so they aren't balanced.

 

 

Yes, well... when one unit requires the coordinated effort of other units to take down, it's usually a clear sign that that unit is stronger than the other units.

 

And we're not even talking about taking the CV down, we're talking about making the CV's attack so painful to the CV, so he instead chooses another target.

 

But he still _can_ strike. And if he does, he will still strike hard.

 

It doesn't matter that it requires more skill to play CV than <insert  other class here>. Just as it doesn't matter that it requires more skill to pilot a jet than a biplane. It's still OP.

And here we have another mongoloid :(. ....cv op.....cv kill me.....i potato...i wanna sail solo and be safe.....nerf nerf.....all class must have same influence in same situation.....bla bla.....giev all class same dmg potential, same spoting potential, same capping potential......[edited]braindead monkey.....go play chess5...oh wait.....give all "figures" same influence.....it is not fair that "horse" can jump and other can not...it is not fair that queen can go many field in all directions and pawn can not....nerf queen....make all have same potential......braindeads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
4,583 posts
13,854 battles

Aight, so just to show a bit how [edited] some arguments here used are. Basically, I'm hearing all the time, that if you are alone and CV finds you, then that's it. You just die and that's that. So I made a few tests with a friend of mine. Montana vs Hakuryu mostly, and North Carolina vs Shokaku.
In Montana vs Hakuryu, the CV needed only 3 strikes to actually sink me, which corresponded to around 7 - 8 minutes of playing.
My Montana isn't even build full AA, I only have AFT and range module for AA on it. Therefore, with BFT and Manual AA, Montana would be unsinkable for CV. Now, Hakuryu is the only CV, that actually is "almost" as powerfull as they should be.

Test nr 1, CV attacking from behind:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160317705

Test nr 2, CV attacking from front:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160318482

In case of NC, after third strike, NC was on half HP and CV didn't have torpedo planes anymore.

 

So, what does it mean? It basically means, that the most powerfull CV in the game needs 3 strikes, which takes him almost half of the game, to sink a single, decently played BB. There are variations, like better torpedo protection, worse AA, better AA, better mobility etc. 

 

So, yeah. However, I find this fragment the most hilarious and I love it!
 

Quote

Yes, well... when BB requires the coordinated effort of other units to take down, it's usually a clear sign that that BB is stronger than the other units.

Oh damn, you were talking about CV's! But isn't it describing BB's best? 

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Alpha Tester
18,781 posts
6,087 battles
34 minutes ago, Dropsiq said:

decently played BB

 

Which is applicable to sadly only a small part of the player base. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
767 posts
8,555 battles
4 hours ago, Dropsiq said:

Aight, so just to show a bit how [edited] some arguments here used are. Basically, I'm hearing all the time, that if you are alone and CV finds you, then that's it. You just die and that's that. So I made a few tests with a friend of mine. Montana vs Hakuryu mostly, and North Carolina vs Shokaku.
In Montana vs Hakuryu, the CV needed only 3 strikes to actually sink me, which corresponded to around 7 - 8 minutes of playing.
My Montana isn't even build full AA, I only have AFT and range module for AA on it. Therefore, with BFT and Manual AA, Montana would be unsinkable for CV. Now, Hakuryu is the only CV, that actually is "almost" as powerfull as they should be.

Test nr 1, CV attacking from behind:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160317705

Test nr 2, CV attacking from front:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160318482

In case of NC, after third strike, NC was on half HP and CV didn't have torpedo planes anymore.

 

So, what does it mean? It basically means, that the most powerfull CV in the game needs 3 strikes, which takes him almost half of the game, to sink a single, decently played BB. There are variations, like better torpedo protection, worse AA, better AA, better mobility etc. 

 

So, yeah. However, I find this fragment the most hilarious and I love it!
 

Oh damn, you were talking about CV's! But isn't it describing BB's best? 

Striking power is only one aspect of CVs.

 

I've assumed this scenario a few times before, but here goes again;

* Random battles.

* Both teams have 11 ships per team decided so far. No CVs yet.

* You get to pick a ship for your team. Assume that the player of the ship knows what he's doing.

* Mirror MM is _not_ in effect. In fact, if you pick a CV, the enemy team doesn't get to pick a CV.

 

At T8, do you pick a Shokaku or not?

At T10, do you pick a Hakuryu or not?

 

Why/why not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
12,359 posts
17,495 battles
8 minutes ago, Phlogistoned said:

* Mirror MM is _not_ in effect. In fact, if you pick a CV, the enemy team doesn't get to pick a CV.

 

This makes your whole point moot, because it's a scenario that simply isn't going to happen.

What if the enemy team consists solely of DMs? Would you still pick a CV? That's about as stupid as the point you're trying to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WOTN]
Quality Poster
2,239 posts
16,050 battles
Just now, Phlogistoned said:

Both teams have 11 ships per team decided so far. No CVs yet.

11 Des Moines? Minotaurs? Montanas?

1 minute ago, Phlogistoned said:

Why/why not?

The 'why' we should be asking is why are we discussing a hypothetical situation that simply does not exist inside the game? For argument, I'll just call the Zao is overpowered. There are 11 ships in the game, and you can pick one ship. For this hypothetical, we'll say the Zao has a health pool of 500k. She has the rate of fire of 1 salvo per second. She also has a 1/1 HE penetration rule and she has a 25% chance of detonating an enemy with every shell she fires. Not shell hits, shells fired. She also has a 300 meter turning radius and a top speed of 90 knots. Oh, and damage control doesn't exist.

 

Do you pick a Zao or not?

 

Why/why not?

 

The problem, sunshine, is that arguing hypotheticals is pointless when the hypothetical can't be used to illustrate a point in the real world. A carrier without an opposing carrier would provide massive advantages to the team with the carrier which I meticulously detailed in my response to you which you appear to not to have bothered to have read. Honestly, I'm heartbroken. Ultimately, your point is pointless. Unless the allied CV is literally AFK, then they'll provide the assistance regardless.

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

What if the enemy team consists solely of DMs? Would you still pick a CV?

Oi you, stop ninjaing my points.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
4,583 posts
13,854 battles

Well, when WG specifically made it so each side has a CV makes this kind of discussion pretty pointless eh? Not to mention, that if you played in CBT we had such situations then. One side 1 CV, other side 0 CV. One side 2 CV, other side 1 CV. And we still could play, but it was a bit disbalanced, and CV's were a bit more potent then, especially Essex and Midway, or IJN full strike setups. So WG made a mirror MM change and nobody protested against it. 
The problem with those kind of presentation, is that they are biased at the beginning. Would you take Des Moines if you knew enemy team had 11 DD's? Would you take Shimakaze if you knew enemy team had 11 Yamatos? It's the same kind of pre set arguments, flawed at it's base. Even so, on randoms? At tier VIII I would think twice about Shokaku instead of Benson or Tirpitz or other BB. 

You're arguing CV's are OP, cause to neutralize them you need to play a bit "like a team". But BB's which takes minutes to sink while under coordinated fire from few ships is ok? I posted a similar vid when I was fighting in Montana vs 5 ships and CV, and almost killed them all with a small help from my CV (he turned one Moskwa with planes). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NIKE]
Beta Tester
3,287 posts
6,709 battles

Mirror matching CV was done for a couple of reasons, however one of the biggest was simply fighters and the air superiority load out.

 

Fighters main role is to kill enemy planes. You can use them to scout, but their major purpose is to kill enemy planes. The air superiority load out is designed for air control. You give up a huge portion of your own damage in order to lock down the enemy cv.

 

Quite simply when there wasnt mirror match matching then quite often an AS carrier would have no enemy planes to fight. 

This, combined with the fact there wasnt strafe, meant people didnt even bother with fighters at all as there frequently woulnt be anyone to use them on.

Because of that, people took all strike loadouts. Back then, they were silly. Langley had 2x6. Hosho had 3x4 TB etc. Non CV players therefore weren't entirely amused at being presented with an enemy team having 2 CV with none on their team. 24 air dropped torps at tier 4, when manual drop was around, when planes behaved lile UFO's, when there was less AA, and when the CV could be in a platoon was when CV were OP

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
767 posts
8,555 battles
On 7/19/2017 at 6:59 PM, dasCKD said:

A carrier without an opposing carrier would provide massive advantages to the team with the carrier which I meticulously detailed in my response to you which you appear to not to have bothered to have read. Honestly, I'm heartbroken.

Thanks for the confirmation.

And sorry for breaking your heart.

On 7/19/2017 at 10:15 PM, Dropsiq said:

The problem with those kind of presentation, is that they are biased at the beginning. Would you take Des Moines if you knew enemy team had 11 DD's? Would you take Shimakaze if you knew enemy team had 11 Yamatos? It's the same kind of pre set arguments, flawed at it's base. Even so, on randoms? At tier VIII I would think twice about Shokaku instead of Benson or Tirpitz or other BB. 

You're arguing CV's are OP, cause to neutralize them you need to play a bit "like a team". But BB's which takes minutes to sink while under coordinated fire from few ships is ok? I posted a similar vid when I was fighting in Montana vs 5 ships and CV, and almost killed them all with a small help from my CV (he turned one Moskwa with planes). 

On mobile, but I'll try to give a coherent reply, autocorrect permitting.

 

* A CV can only be countered effectively by another CV.

* And an unchecked CV is a "powerhouse", as a CV captain said.

 

From this follows that the skill gap between opposing CVs has an enormous effect on the game. If the enemy CV is outplayed, it is "powerhouse"-time.

 

And this is decided only by those two players.

 

Having a potato BB or other ship class is not a problem. But CVs.. somehow it is a problem.

 

Given a CV's value compared to other ships, it follows that they are OP.

 

They are the ultimate solo playing toys. If you play well, you can win the battle for your team. This is also reflected in the top players by win rate. Almost all are CV players.

 

From this also follows that saying that other ships just need to "play together" is pretty insulting and/or hypocritical depending on who is saying it.

 

And if you think for a second about the much touted rock-paper-scissors balance, it is immediately obvious that CVs break this completely. CVs can counter everything else, but the only effective counter against a CV is another CV.

 

No ship should counter everything else. Therefore I find the debate about BBs countering everything else slightly misdirected since there is another, much larger, elephant in the room.

 

So what can we do about it? I think we have to add some way for ships to counter planes.

 

* We have skill in Air<->Air given by CV vs CV

* We also have skill in Air->Surface from CV planes to surface ships.

* But we have no skill in Surface->Air.

There is only the random AA aura.

 

Even an Atlanta can't sail around 'hunting planes'. It has to wait for the CV player to move the planes within range, and then... Planes fall out of the sky. Very satisfying mechanic. Not.

 

I think it needs to become symmetrical, so there is skill involved also in shooting down planes from ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,528 posts
9,851 battles
30 minutes ago, Phlogistoned said:

 

* A CV can only be countered effectively by another CV.

 

 

 

This is just simply entirely false.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
12,359 posts
17,495 battles
33 minutes ago, Phlogistoned said:

* A CV can only be countered effectively by another CV.

 

Untrue, a dedicated AA cruiser will deny vast amounts of air space with its presence alone. A lot of them cannot even be spotted by a CV before planes enter their AA range.

 

33 minutes ago, Phlogistoned said:

* And an unchecked CV is a "powerhouse", as a CV captain said.

 

For a CV to go around unchecked you need almost your entire team to consist of potatoes, not only the CV. Sadly that is extremely common nowadays.

 

You don't seem to understand that beyond spotting anything else is GIVEN to the CV. Ask yourself this:

Can a CV strike something protected by an AA cruiser?

Can a CV strike a small group of same tier capital ships?

The answer to both is obviously no. Thus if your entire team does not consist of solo sailing scrubs and has a healthy class distribution there is literally nothing a CV can do except to keep you spotted and hope that his own team snipes key AA ships and/or spams AA down low enough so he can attack, which is perfectly fine as those are forms of teamplay in a team game.

 

33 minutes ago, Phlogistoned said:

I think it needs to become symmetrical, so there is skill involved also in shooting down planes from ships.

 

Something even CV captains have been saying for a long time. AA is a [edited] mechanic on both ends that desperately needs overhaul. How to best do it however remains a mystery. Full manual controlled AA would obviously be the best way to do it, but it may make the game too taxing for even experienced players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,528 posts
9,851 battles
25 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Untrue, a dedicated AA cruiser will deny vast amounts of air space with its presence alone. A lot of them cannot even be spotted by a CV before planes enter their AA range.

 

 

 

Or one similar or higher tier USN BB, or a higher tier BB of nearly any nation, or two similar tier BBs. Counter to what the CV hater brigade tries to make people believe, it's ever so easy to lose a game against a potato CV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×