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TuckerLT

Remove Draws!!!

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WG is it hard to remove Draws from the game?!!! You fckd up with your servers or with other YOUR problems and everyone loses flags, gets 0 exp, 0 dmg. If game didnt happened why you PUNISHING players!, Cant you tweak this so if game didnt happened for all of us it wont count AT ALL! Yesterday i got 4 draws, today again 1 already.

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Players
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The problem isn't draws themselves, it's that the game treats a draw as a loss. It should be easy enough to detect when a draw has occurred legitimately through gameplay or whether it is a result of a technical problem disconnecting everyone. Punishing everyone in the game because the server failed should not happen.

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Weekend Tester
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Absolutely true. In ranked in addition to server crashes the only realistic way to get a draw is for the last two ships to ram each other. Why should that be considered a loss for both teams? Obviously a great battle was fought to the very finish, why on earth should that be punished so harshly? Why not just not give stars to anyone? This in addition to the insanely frustrating disconnect draws that currently plague the game.

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2 hours ago, AndyHill said:

Absolutely true. In ranked in addition to server crashes the only realistic way to get a draw is for the last two ships to ram each other. Why should that be considered a loss for both teams? Obviously a great battle was fought to the very finish, why on earth should that be punished so harshly? Why not just not give stars to anyone? This in addition to the insanely frustrating disconnect draws that currently plague the game.

Which ultimately could be abused if the teams cooperate and agree on a draw, e.g. that no one kills any enemy or takes a cap etc. but wait for the points to fill up.

Although I agree that serverside problems should be handled differently, e.g. by invalidating the game which was influenced by a server crash. It still sucks if one of the team was a sure winner but I think we can agree that it is better to keep the stars for a sure win than losing stars for a sure win because the server showed you the middle finger.

 

Also, I don't play ranked games, but are you sure that a ram of the last two ships is the only possibility to reach a draw? The last two ships shooting each other simultaniously should lead to a draw. What about equal points after the time ran out?

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Weekend Tester
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How exactly could the teams abuse the system? How would would you get every player to agree on not doing anything during the game so that nobody gains anything and why would anyone do that?

 

Equal points at time running out is a somewhat plausible occurrence, basically requiring caps within a few seconds of each other and everything else being equal throughout the match. Never seen that happen but it is within the real of possibility. However, why should the teams be punished so harshly for such a tight game? Why not just deny progress for everyone instead of pushing everyone except two top players back?

 

Simultaneous shooting would require milli- or microsecond level timing, which is virtually impossible. I have seen games where both remaining ships die at the end and the one that died last won the game. Again, even if this was possible, why should both teams be punished so hard for an undoubtedly hard fought game?

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14 hours ago, Tungstonid said:

Which ultimately could be abused if the teams cooperate and agree on a draw, e.g. that no one kills any enemy or takes a cap etc. but wait for the points to fill up.

Although I agree that serverside problems should be handled differently, e.g. by invalidating the game which was influenced by a server crash. It still sucks if one of the team was a sure winner but I think we can agree that it is better to keep the stars for a sure win than losing stars for a sure win because the server showed you the middle finger.

 

Also, I don't play ranked games, but are you sure that a ram of the last two ships is the only possibility to reach a draw? The last two ships shooting each other simultaniously should lead to a draw. What about equal points after the time ran out?

Why would both team agree to draw so none losses a star?

And yes technical those are other ways to reach a draw but are rather unlikely.

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18 hours ago, AndyHill said:

Absolutely true. In ranked in addition to server crashes the only realistic way to get a draw is for the last two ships to ram each other. Why should that be considered a loss for both teams? Obviously a great battle was fought to the very finish, why on earth should that be punished so harshly? Why not just not give stars to anyone?

Because draw is when no one wins. You didn't win so you don't deserve to get rewards for wining, simple. You get rewarded for results, not effort.

 

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2 hours ago, AndyHill said:

How exactly could the teams abuse the system? How would would you get every player to agree on not doing anything during the game so that nobody gains anything and why would anyone do that?

 

2 hours ago, procrastinatingStudent said:

Why would both team agree to draw so none losses a star?

And yes technical those are other ways to reach a draw but are rather unlikely.

 

Looks like I missed the second "not" in one of the sentences. It was late, I apologize.

I came to a similar conclusion, though. Handling server-side problems differently by invalidating the match so no one gains or loses stars.

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1 hour ago, Simikazee said:

Because draw is when no one wins. You didn't win so you don't deserve to get rewards for wining, simple. You get rewarded for results, not effort.

 

Which is why nobody is asking for the rewards you'd get for winning. Draw is not a loss either so why should everyone get the punishment for losing? 

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On 7.07.2017 at 4:32 PM, AndyHill said:

 Draw is not a loss

 If you didn't manage to win, you lost. So yeah, draw is a loss, for both sides. And should receive appropriate rewards.

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Well, all I can say is that most sports don't agree with you and even in wars and battles there's a marked difference between a full rout and an inconclusive skirmish. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Players
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Draws are historic.

 

Who won the Battle of Jutland? RN held more strategically important areas (caps). German's sunk more ships. It was a draw. Neither side won. Both sides lost.

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13 hours ago, AndyHill said:

Well, all I can say is that most sports don't agree with you and even in wars and battles there's a marked difference between a full rout and an inconclusive skirmish. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sports don't really matter. Second and third places are also a thing and rewarded, despite the fact that those guys also lost. 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 100th, doesn't matter. They lost.  It's just there to make ppl feel better. Same thing with draws.

As for inconclusive skirmishes in warfare. They are also a loss. You basicly wasted lives of your soldiers and gained nothing in return.
 

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12 hours ago, Lin3 said:

Draws are historic.

 

Who won the Battle of Jutland? RN held more strategically important areas (caps). German's sunk more ships. It was a draw. Neither side won. Both sides lost.

Actually, it was not a draw, RN won that one (a points victory :P ). But I digress. What matters is that while in history the goals of each battle are usually asymmetric, making it sometimes difficult to point to the winner (the Jutland controversy), not differentiating between a defeat and a draw is retarded. Let's increase the scope a bit so that the result is more clearly visible (since the context has less impact on that): let's take a war rather than a battle. And let's look at following scenarios:

1. Countries A and B declare war on each other. Country A crushes country B and forces unconditional surrender, B ends up losing sovereignty and becoming a vassal state of A.

2. Countries A and B declare war on each other. Country B pushes deep into country A's territory and A can do nothing about that; as the truce is ultimately signed, B gets half of formerly A's territory as their own. Plus A pays crippling war reparations.

3. Countries A and B declare war on each other. After some fighting, with no side able to prevail, they sign a truce with pre-war boundaries reestablished.

 

I dare you to claim that the results for both belligerents in situation #3 is in any way comparable to what the loser faces in #1 or #2. Sure, a victory it is not. But saying that it's a defeat? Laughable.

 

Or, of course, we could just focus on the fact that WoWs is a game and not a war... but then - when we look at the most important games (widely practiced sports) what do we see? Well, either there are some tie-breaker rules to make draws impossible... or draws are - surprise surprise - treated as worse than victories but better than defeats. Take Europe's probably most popular sport: football (what some countries that don't know better call "soccer"): there are two options, either it's a cup-like structure that needs a winner (then there's extra time to decide the game and, if that doesn't work: penalty shots to determine the winner) or a table structure where points matter, victories grant +3, draws +1 and defeats leave you at 0. Frankly, if you know of any sport where a draw is considered a defeat for both, please do mention it because frankly, when I try to think of one like that, nothing comes to mind.

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