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MeTaLMooSe

Now I see why premiums are expensive.......

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So not being a software wizard I was pondering over how do Wargaming set a price on a premium ship. Is it purely from what the players will pay? So after a brief google I found this short video.

I had no idea it was this involved. 1120 man hours or 140 days! Break that into a salary and now I have an understanding.

Maybe this is why I quite enjoy just studying the ships in port view. But WG PLEASE give us more zoom to appreciate your work.

 

If anyone here has more of an understanding on how the ships are researched and designed and what sort of software is used, scale etc etc I'd love to know more.

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Granted. The amount of love and beauty I see is being put in the development of this game and it's ships is really touching to me. However a development of 140 mandays for a new product isn't that much in fact, in terms of cost. I've calculated it down. I know: being the village idiot here in terms of calculating I might be well off. I've taken an estimate salary of 2000 € per month. For easier calculation assumed a month is 30 days. So that'll be 66 per day. So the total cost in pay is 9333 (1120X66). Of course add extra costs like power, rent for the building, buying computers, servertime rent, extra costs for tweaking in the test phase a.s.o. let's estimate the total costs will be around €15.000. I think that's a hell of a bargain to make a new product. You;ll need to sell 333 basic Tirpitzes to break even, grossly. Even when I'm off by a factor 10, that'll still leave 3333 Tirpitzes. And once fully designed it's basically a computerprogram which you can sell over and over again. Together given the fact lots of premiums are basically the same-ish as regular ships with some extra sweets or some slight different numbers (f.e. Tirpitz is basically a Bismarck with torps, Eugen is pretty much the same as Hipper) on them I still highly doubt those will take that much R&D time against designing 1 from scratch.

Now having said that. I'm not saying I don't grant WG the income. After all they're not a charity company and the income must come from somewhere. The whole basic is F2P. So they are not getting revenue out of the game itself, only with the deep selling. So my point was not to gloat about that but just saying those are (again: very assumptive calculations on my part) quite reasonable R&D costs. Being a P2W player myself i don't have the least trouble of buying wonderful premiums. Not all of them but I can say quite a lot. And I'm very happy with them (ok, maybe not the Duca. But I must give it more chance I guess (;).

Summarized: can the price of the premiums be accounted for the R&D? IMO no. Can it be for the whole picture? IMO hell yeah. Nobody's forcing anyone to draw the wallet and still enjoy this game. Also WG has given us ample opportunity to win/ achieve premium ships for free.

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Hi MeTaLMoose,

 

Thanks for posting this video. It really shows the work behind those models and I hope some players will now understand why those ships are this expensive.

I work regularly with 3D modeling and I know how frustrating and time consuming it can be to draw such large and detailed models, especially when you don't have all data and measures. I work mostly with already modeled parts and I admire Wargaming for being able to reproduce those ships often just from photographs and blueprints.

As a player that plays World of Warships not only for the gameplay but for the ships, I think Wargaming has done a great job so far. Incredible details, movement animations and historical accuracy as far as the gameplay allows, all of those make the ships in game not only a pleasure to play but also really beautiful to watch.:cap_look:

 

You asked for the software that is used and how it is done. Well, I don't know the exact software, but in the video you can see that the ships are directly modeled from original blueprints and cutaway drawings. The redraw the blueprint as a 2D sketch and extrude it to the 3D model. That is how the most 3D modeling programs work.

 

59649a62d4e41_WoWs3DModel.jpg.11037e44c9cd01e0f0ccc3d2f1c1b118.jpg

Here, they extrude the hull from a original blueprint (The yellow fields are the template for the correct beam and angle as you can see in the picture below)

 

59649a9be551d_WoWs3DModelextruding.jpg.f7c831234da94aabd5a9450a9bcd690a.jpg

Here they model the correct angle with the use of a original drawing (You can see that the 3D model matches to the lines)

 

I hope I could show you bit how the 3D modeling is done, although I don't know much about the process that is used in the Wargaming studios. If anyone could find out the software which is used I would also be interested.

 

See you at sea, Captain!

 

Sincerely

Eiji

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[YARRR]
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The program is called Maya from Autodesk, the texturing tool is Adobe Photoshop.

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On 6.7.2017 at 8:18 PM, Ferry_25 said:

Granted. The amount of love and beauty I see is being put in the development of this game and it's ships is really touching to me. However a development of 140 mandays for a new product isn't that much in fact, in terms of cost. I've calculated it down. I know: being the village idiot here in terms of calculating I might be well off. I've taken an estimate salary of 2000 € per month. For easier calculation assumed a month is 30 days. So that'll be 66 per day. So the total cost in pay is 9333 (1120X66). Of course add extra costs like power, rent for the building, buying computers, servertime rent, extra costs for tweaking in the test phase a.s.o. let's estimate the total costs will be around €15.000. I think that's a hell of a bargain to make a new product. You;ll need to sell 333 basic Tirpitzes to break even, grossly. Even when I'm off by a factor 10, that'll still leave 3333 Tirpitzes. And once fully designed it's basically a computerprogram which you can sell over and over again. Together given the fact lots of premiums are basically the same-ish as regular ships with some extra sweets or some slight different numbers (f.e. Tirpitz is basically a Bismarck with torps, Eugen is pretty much the same as Hipper) on them I still highly doubt those will take that much R&D time against designing 1 from scratch.

Now having said that. I'm not saying I don't grant WG the income. After all they're not a charity company and the income must come from somewhere. The whole basic is F2P. So they are not getting revenue out of the game itself, only with the deep selling. So my point was not to gloat about that but just saying those are (again: very assumptive calculations on my part) quite reasonable R&D costs. Being a P2W player myself i don't have the least trouble of buying wonderful premiums. Not all of them but I can say quite a lot. And I'm very happy with them (ok, maybe not the Duca. But I must give it more chance I guess (;).

Summarized: can the price of the premiums be accounted for the R&D? IMO no. Can it be for the whole picture? IMO hell yeah. Nobody's forcing anyone to draw the wallet and still enjoy this game. Also WG has given us ample opportunity to win/ achieve premium ships for free.

 

Well you don't work weekends, so take 21 days per month for calculation or about 250 days per anno.

 

And if you get me developer for 42.000€ per anno all incl. please bring them on and I found my own company :-)

 

The price tag is probably more 100.000€ per anno all incl (computers, insurance, health plan, rent, etc)....

 

so so the price is more like 56k €

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5 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Well you don't work weekends, so take 21 days per month for calculation or about 250 days per anno.

 

And if you get me developer for 42.000€ per anno all incl. please bring them on and I found my own company :-)

 

The price tag is probably more 100.000€ per anno all incl (computers, insurance, health plan, rent, etc)....

 

so so the price is more like 56k €

That's what I was saying: even if I'm off with a factor of 10. Well above your calculations: in that case from my calcs it'd end up in 150k IMO the R&D costs are low or manageable IMO. Compare that with designing a new car f.e. Those costs can easily hit a 10 digit number.

My whole point is: I think the R&D in designing new ships/ premiums is of course significant but really manageable. But I can relate to the costs of the whole thing regarding premium vessels. Should all players chose to buy 1 or more premium vessels/ prem time and all RL cash aspects in this game the prices would either drop or WG could do a takeover bid to Google or Microsoft in a heartbeat. But as I see the whole picture, again from my POV, they are trying to take a specific niche like Jim Sterling pointed out: see clip below. As I see it and WG please correct me if I'm wrong in essence. I think they are a bunch of nerd nitwits like we are, fondly in love with gaming and making something beautiful. Kick it on the market in a way everybody can play this for free and the complete nutcases, like I am for sure, who's seeing that beauty, love and dedication will gladfully draw his/ her wallet and buy premium ships/ time a.s.o. So I get a little bit tired of the flaming to both sides of the spectrum: saying F2P players are leeches and P2W players are.. pay to winners. There's nothing wrong with players who don't want/ cannot afford to spend RL cash in this (or other title's for that matter) games. Bit the other way around: I pay RL hard earned money. So can I please have a slight advantage in the grinding, income and have the "extra needle" in my premiums without disbalancing the whole game please? The "P2W-ers" are the people who make this whole game keep going. Not to pat myself on the chest though. But the fact is there.

 

Bottom line, still: from R&D costs ONLY IMO the prices are not justified for premium vessels. From the whole scale of things: yes they are. My POV: WG entered a niche in which specific players are having a demand. To quote Jim "there is no perfect sauce. There are only perfect sauces." From business POV: my absolute respect to WG. I wish I had come up with such an idea.

 

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I think 50-100k sound reasonable. And while that may  not sound huge you have to remember that you have staff is there all year. And they are not exclusively working on chargeable premium ships but most of the time the work on free content such as the underlying mechanics, free ships, bug fixing, etc. 

 

I am not trying to defend the high prices and I haven't done the math to understand the calculation behind the price. And I can very well imagine that the return is actually better in WOWS than in a lot of classic box titles that get sold once for 50€. 

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Exactly: all the other costs would explain the higher prices of premiums like you put out. And my guess is they want to make a profit as well. My point of view is the prices can't be explained by R&D costs alone. They're OC part of it but not the whole.

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Dont forget, Its not just the cost of developing the model that has to be taken into acoount on the final price tag. Because the game is free you also have to factor in all the other running costs of WG itself, all staff salaries and benefits and the server cluster ruuning costs and software licence fees. Generally if you assume dev costs only account for 30% of the total sales required to actually break even, then you have a better figure. 

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