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Mr_Burke

Dunkerque below 8km

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Something oddly is wrong with this ship. Everytime an enemy gets less than 8km from me, my accuarcy drops to zero. I even aimed for an Aboa superstructure 4km away, but my shells went ghost and never hit him. It's always the same whenever I play this ship. Enemy gets within 8km, and I cannot do any damage. What are your thoughts on this?

 

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If youre playing this ship in ranked its time to stop. 

 

Personally idk about what you said, but Dunkek guns have a tendency to overpen cruiser citadels at close range.. That and well Dunkek is really inaccurate both at range and close range.

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Euwm yeah don't aim for the superstructure. You should aim at the hull and try to hit the citadel. If a battleship get's more guns in one turret, it becomse very inaccurate. So the Dunkerque is just not a good aimer. Theire is also a rng who can give you a bad day. You can do nothing about it. It just puts in a number for your aim and there is nothing to do about it. 

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I don't understand this ship anymore.

I used to have a great time with it, but recently, its supposed high penetration guns don't do anything. Perfect broadside on a non-turtleback BB at 6km? Only regular pens.
Hitting a cruiser 10km away at the waterline? Overpen.

 

Did something chance in the AP fuze settings or something?

 

 

EDIT: Just came out of a game, Nagato full broadside 500m away, all 8 shells hit the waterline, 8 regular pens.
Tell me how AP shells with better performance than most 380mm guns and all 356mm guns can't do a citpens in circumstances where even 203mm AP would do it?

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On 4.7.2017 at 11:42 PM, Mr_Burke said:

Something oddly is wrong with this ship. Everytime an enemy gets less than 8km from me, my accuarcy drops to zero.

Wait. That means accuracy at more than 8 km is better than zero? What is this wizardry?

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BBs actually derp hard at really close range, even the best of them. Mostly as the ship itself is so large although Dunker guns are pretty close together...

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On 2017-7-20 at 0:42 PM, Exocet6951 said:

Hitting a cruiser 10km away at the waterline? Overpen.

 

What? Can you really hit something with Dunkerque at 10Kms? HAXX

 

Seriously, cant hit crap with this ship, and then you do almost no damage. And the thing is that I didn't remember this ship as bad when I bought it. Just played it again lately (because I got the sale for the doubloons and got those missions that triple your XP) and found it HORRIBLE.

 

And now I have to play it again to get those special flags... Damn it.

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On 7/20/2017 at 0:42 PM, Exocet6951 said:

I don't understand this ship anymore.

I used to have a great time with it, but recently, its supposed high penetration guns don't do anything. Perfect broadside on a non-turtleback BB at 6km? Only regular pens.
Hitting a cruiser 10km away at the waterline? Overpen.

 

Did something chance in the AP fuze settings or something?

 

 

EDIT: Just came out of a game, Nagato full broadside 500m away, all 8 shells hit the waterline, 8 regular pens.
Tell me how AP shells with better performance than most 380mm guns and all 356mm guns can't do a citpens in circumstances where even 203mm AP would do it?

I actually used to enjoy this ship as well, I used to get crazy citadels here and there. However it seems those days are over and my initial worries about this ship seemed to be true after all.

 

About overpenning Cruisers, that has happened to me all the time at very close range ever since the release of the ship, but never has it happened at 8+ km... 

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10 hours ago, JapLance said:

 

What? Can you really hit something with Dunkerque at 10Kms? HAXX

 

Seriously, cant hit crap with this ship, and then you do almost no damage. And the thing is that I didn't remember this ship as bad when I bought it. Just played it again lately (because I got the sale for the doubloons and got those missions that triple your XP) and found it HORRIBLE.

 

And now I have to play it again to get those special flags... Damn it.

Well I agree with you that she is inconsistent, some games it feels hopeless, some games everything goes. I think target selection is extremely important. I rebought it for doubloons as I bought the ship last year, got those 30 + 3x missions + gold at 50% and now as you playing for the camo.

 

I played a game with 3 Dunks/side that was an odd feeling, perhaps many on EU that took advantage of the 50% sale. Then we at least are in the same situation. I think that she is alright even good when top tier, but scales worse with uptiering. I have much more consistent games dmg/performance wise in Warspite/Arizona/New Mexico but there are some games where the speed is important.  

Somehow I one game managed to get 197 K in her when the stars really aligned, but I have games where the results on broadside ships have been hopeless. With her 8 guns forward with 1.7 sigma and her spread it can pay off against DDs. You usually get hits on faitly distant ships, so even if you do not sink them, you help your team. 

 

I think Dunkerque is a ship I return to from time to time and now with the French cruisers (building up my future Henri IV captain to 14 pts is my goal) and even more with this campaign (3x for victory) + the camo it is really an incentive to play her a lot and endure some poor games and some good.

 

Ranked with Dunk? Never! not even if I had a 19 p captain.

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On 21.7.2017 at 10:11 AM, Aragathor said:

Let's not forget that the Dunkek has a sigma of 1,7. It's a shotgun.

While the sigma value is correct, it's influence on accuracy is generally exaggerated. 

I have the same MBH with Dunk as with Warspite even though Dunk can reach a full 2 km further out. 

And thats not just me, the server stats also show that Dunk has the best MBH among T6 BBs and is still 5th overall (if we discount low tier BBs, then 3rd actually).

 

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On 23.7.2017 at 11:24 AM, Mucker said:

While the sigma value is correct, it's influence on accuracy is generally exaggerated. 

I have the same MBH with Dunk as with Warspite even though Dunk can reach a full 2 km further out. 

And thats not just me, the server stats also show that Dunk has the best MBH among T6 BBs and is still 5th overall (if we discount low tier BBs, then 3rd actually).

 

Maybe, possibly... but how many of those hits did actually hit where they were aimed at?

I'm quite surprised to see my Mutsu's MBH being my second worst at T6. But at least she gets s**t done, and once you sink a target with 2 shells, all other shells hitting the wreck will not be counted as hits. Whereas Dunkek scores bounces and overpens galore because she keeps missing the juicy spots.

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Lately I'm just playing the scenario mode, and this week I've started to play Dunkerque again to level up a French BB captain. Lots of desperation and much swearing, so I thought that if I couldn't hit crap with the main guns, it made no sense to keep the aiming systems module, so I changed it to buff the secondary battery range.

 

I played only a game, so it's not conclusive, but dispersion was LOWER in most of my main guns salvoes. That reminded me of the Missouri affair a few months back, where people reported something similar. How did that end? I remember perfectly how Flamu was constantly complaining about Missouri having atrocious dispersion suddenly, and how it automatically improved by removing that "faulty" module. Did WG officially say something about it?

 

Could this be the same situation?. I will keep trying my Dunkerque a few more games today and see what happens.

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Nah, after a few games with and without the module, this ship is complete garbage in the accuracy department.

 

Don't buy if you are thinking about it. Normandie is head and shoulders above Dunkerque.

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10 hours ago, JapLance said:

That reminded me of the Missouri affair a few months back, where people reported something similar. How did that end?

It ended with potatoes finally shutting up because NOTHING HAD CHANGED. Missouri is and was exactly as previously.

 

10 hours ago, JapLance said:

Flamu was constantly complaining

That's like 99% of all he ever does, what a surprise

 

1 hour ago, JapLance said:

Nah, after a few games with and without the module, this ship is complete garbage in the accuracy department.

 

Don't buy if you are thinking about it. Normandie is head and shoulders above Dunkerque.

Dunkerque is a nice ship - good duns, very maneuverable. Your problem with accuracy is the exact same thing that all IJN and MN ships have - high shell velocity means large vertical dispersion at closer ranges :fish_palm:

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49 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Your problem with accuracy is the exact same thing that all IJN and MN ships have

Since I never had a problem with accuracy  in IJN or MN ships, I'll just ignore your stupid post.

 

 

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15 hours ago, JapLance said:

Normandie is head and shoulders above Dunkerque.

Indeed, and it looks great with the Ocean Liner camo. Not only does the Normandie have lower velocity on the AP which prevents overpens against cruisers, it also has four more guns negating the faster reload of the Dunkek. So when it comes to the main battery, it's above anything Dunkek offers. It also has more than 1,6km extra range.

I have a dedicated captain for the Normandie with a troll secondary build. The Fiat Multipla bow gives me great coverage up front, so instead of showing side like the Dunkek just to fire secondaries I can wreck other ships while comfortably angled. Speaking of angles, the Normandie has a 90m shorter turning circle and a better rudder shift. And what would you know, the Normandie is stealthier by 700m.

The only strength the Dunkerque has over the Normandie is the AA, but the AA on the Dunkerque is really bad compared to other BBs at tier.

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It's a seal clobber troll ship. You can win 2 bbs vs 1 dunkirk. The ruddershift is amazing and when you swing around left and right all the time, all the newbs will achieve only bounces and you can sink them. Had that so often, that people with less knowledge about the game do zero dmg :D

The dispersion isn't that great, yes, that's true.

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Sold mine just couldn't bare it any more god knows I tried. In the end I started using HE only as I found it more consistent than the AP. One of the worst ships I ever had the misfortune to buy. Over pens on cruisers constantly,  no armour to speak of even when angled. Remember having to yolo a Dunkerque in my Algérie and all the while I knew during it I was pretty safe, and yes true to form all of his shots either missed or over penned. Which allowed me to torp him quite comfortably. Such was the awfulness of the Dunkerque. Strange thing is I don't remember it being so bad when I first bought it.

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11 hours ago, Merlin851526 said:

Strange thing is I don't remember it being so bad when I first bought it.

It's called power creep. Officially WG doesn't like it, but in reality they don't care. People give them money, only to find out that two updates down the line WG plans to make the ship bought with hard cash into complete trash.

Blyskawica was sold with stealth fire as a main strength, now it's just inferior to other T7 premium DDs. Dunkerque is a joke compared with other T6 premium BBs and even T6 silver BBs.

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Yeah, Dunkek probably needs a buff or two. I for one would buff accuracy and maybe secondary range, but apart from that, I can make the ship work when I concentrate. Also a problem I found with the guns is that due to their massive penetration and velocity they are awful for anti cruiser work at close range, but they are extremely good anti-capital ship weapons when they hit. 

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2 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

Yeah, Dunkek probably needs a buff or two. I for one would buff accuracy and maybe secondary range, but apart from that, I can make the ship work when I concentrate. Also a problem I found with the guns is that due to their massive penetration and velocity they are awful for anti cruiser work at close range, but they are extremely good anti-capital ship weapons when they hit. 

 

Yup, I've had some hilarious shots, like multi-citadel hits on Fuso at 17km. But my stats overall in this ship are a bit sorry. I remember it being fairly fun though, haven't played for a while.

 

Now though, if we get Prinz Eitel Friedrich with slightly bigger guns and 2.0 sigma... I think it will powercreep Dunkerque a bit as T6 battlecruisers go.

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1 hour ago, VC381 said:

 

Yup, I've had some hilarious shots, like multi-citadel hits on Fuso at 17km. But my stats overall in this ship are a bit sorry. I remember it being fairly fun though, haven't played for a while.

 

Now though, if we get Prinz Eitel Friedrich with slightly bigger guns and 2.0 sigma... I think it will powercreep Dunkerque a bit as T6 battlecruisers go.

Well, I can only comment on what's in the devblog here

https://www.facebook.com/wowsdevblog/photos/a.1914529002206771.1073741828.1909055039420834/2098291363830533/?type=3&theater

 

 

But basically the guns are 350mm (13.8"-ish), so there is no in-tier overmatch, and the 4x2 layout may not lend itself to the same agressive playstyle. Based on wiki she also looks somewhat long and light, so I'm not fearing that so much.

However the gun accuracy (sigma 2.0) and reload (24s) do raise my blood pressure and if they stay like that I'm going to restart my pitchfork-and-torch campaign to increase the reload and sigma on Dunkerque (although good luck matching those 330mm rifles in penetration and flight time). I get that the French ships are not supposed to be accurate becuase of the quad turrets, but I think there are multiple instances where gameplay trumped historicity, so I think it's time to "install those delaying coils in Dunkerque's turrets" and increase sigma to acceptable levels (not even that much, 1.8-1.9 would be more than sufficient). As for reload... I'm sure Germans were efficient and projected a rate of fire of 2.5, but if we're going by projected rate of fire, Dunkerque needs to be firing at the same rate or even faster. No but seriously, 27-26 seconds would be adequate.

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14 hours ago, piritskenyer said:

Yeah, Dunkek probably needs a buff or two. I for one would buff accuracy and maybe secondary range, but apart from that, I can make the ship work when I concentrate. Also a problem I found with the guns is that due to their massive penetration and velocity they are awful for anti cruiser work at close range, but they are extremely good anti-capital ship weapons when they hit. 

 

The only thing the Dunkerque needs is small Sigma buff. By 0.1. Or tweak the dispersion, that boat has a minimum vertical dispersion that is 50m larger than that of the Normandie.

The overpenetration of the guns against cruisers means that the ship can't punish potatoes that make mistakes. It also allows skilled players to exploit it for torp attacks etc. But it also makes it possible to delete cruisers trying to angle against you. But then dispersion works hard to prevent any success in hitting the target.

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18 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

 

The only thing the Dunkerque needs is small Sigma buff. By 0.1. Or tweak the dispersion, that boat has a minimum vertical dispersion that is 50m larger than that of the Normandie.

The overpenetration of the guns against cruisers means that the ship can't punish potatoes that make mistakes. It also allows skilled players to exploit it for torp attacks etc. But it also makes it possible to delete cruisers trying to angle against you. But then dispersion works hard to prevent any success in hitting the target.

 

Yeah, a .1-.2 sigma increase would mean that you can put your shots where you ant when you want and it would reduce the ship's vulnerabiity. Also it would allow you to wait and shoot at the right moment at cruisers that you would otherwise overpenetrate so that you can shoot them in the turn at the ideal angle. Hue.

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