Star award for top player on the losing team justified?

[SteDorff]

Since the poll is not able to respond to:

Ok to elaborate this I don't mind if a DD that carried the team does not lose a star when the team fails. The thing is I witness more and more players who play only to try to not lose a star. When I enter battle I do my best and if it turns out I am top on a losing team then not because I choose so.

Now I see campers BB s lets say they are Fuso s who don't participate go to the furthest regions to be out of sight and go snipe from there let their teammates tank the damage. when the cruisers and dd s failed to win the game for them they have already accumulated XP because everyone else tanked the damage for them then when they are left they can still shoot at the enemy team ships that come for them and accumulate XP while depleting their huge full HP that they still have even when they run from the enemy in order to not to take damage from multiple enemys stalling their deletion.

These players accumulate the XP needed to be on top of the losing team so the reward for camping BB s is now to not lose a star while the players that participated and did loads of effort will lose theirs. I also think this encourages more and more players to do exactly the same.

 

Below I have PRT screen of a BB who camped at that position and stayed there as you can see 10 minutes into battle our team is deleted and he still has a huge hitpool left. Now I understand that the Fuso is one of the best tanking ships but these players don't want to deal in taking a part of the 'team'damage. Instead it waited for the first enemy ships to pop up and started running away of course returning fire.

Now guess who was on the top of our losing team in the end ? exactly this guy and this was not in one battle I witnessed it time after time its that guy that is behind the rest of the team since the start of the battle not helping anyone. Should players like this get through ranked and end up with the prescious pirate flag? I don't think so its the guy you report for playing badly.

 

 

[Exocet6951]

In theory I don't mind, but in practice, it's exactly the sort of people like the one you pointed out that get the star.

And that's the recipe to "get carried to rank 1" 

[Viktor_Lima]

Remember that this mechanic, whether you like it or not, does speed up your progression. Stars are only generated when people loose matches at irrevocable ranks and one each for the top player of the beaten team. All other stars are only traded between competitors. For several players to go to rank 1, they need to take those stars from other players and the pool of stars generated by the system: In short if you eliminate this function, any incentive to at least put up a fight on a lopsided match goes away and the grind takes longer for everyone.

[Major_Damage225]

So hiding and sniping is a good way to get to rank 1. 

[lameoll]

mye the system is fucked up

my rating in faragut is crap in ranked just because i focus on objectives.. i cap keep torps spotted and smoke up my team wins us a lot of the games. but when u lose u do not get the xp rewarded.

had a max range sniping fuso spamming he top me while i solo capped and killed a dd alone. while he just farmed some damage from max range.

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

Sorry, but I'm gonna play the get good card on this one. Everyone and their mother complains about teams, but then is also discontent if he doesn't suck the least. Yes, it may seem unfair at times, but crying wolf without having seen the game from your mates perspective is wrong.

[ColonelPete]

You are not awarded a star, you do not lose one.

And yes, that is good.

[Aotearas]

Imho someone on the losing team should be rewarded a star if they manage to top the score in base XP (meaning more base XP than the best of the winning team).

Because if a guy on the losing team got more base XP than the best winner, obviously they did a couple things right and deserve getting a star. Otherwise though, if I had to change to the grind economy I would do something entirely different, but that would take ages to write down.

[Takru]

If the base XP calculation would account for all actions done for a team, then it would be a useful mechanic, but it doesn't. Smoking up friendly ships for example doesn't yield any reward in base XP.

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

Stopped rank -> because as Aotearas said, top player of losing team should be awarded a star.

Occasional tomato/camping BB and so on...getting first place on losing team is unusual enough to not really be important.

[Gojuadorai]

31 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Imho someone on the losing team should be rewarded a star if they manage to top the score in base XP (meaning more base XP than the best of the winning team).

Because if a guy on the losing team got more base XP than the best winner, obviously they did a couple things right and deserve getting a star. Otherwise though, if I had to change to the grind economy I would do something entirely different, but that would take ages to write down.

 

well that happens rarely unless you mean before the 1.5X win bonus is applied.

 

@OP

there are case where youre right but i fear more often youre wrong.

because if a backline sniper gets enough  XP to top the list there are 3 cases:

- the team suicided and did not get any meaningfull amounts of pouts themselves.

- he played cautious and really did significant dmg

- "as described by OP" which imho can only occur if the whole team fails horribly

[Kazomir]

Everyone from the losing team should lose a star.

For 3 or more consecutive victories, you should get awarded 2 stars.

 

This way you reward consistency, not damage-farming and cowardice.

[lameoll]

17 minutes ago, Kazomir said:

Everyone from the losing team should lose a star.

For 3 or more consecutive victories, you should get awarded 2 stars.

 

This way you reward consistency, not damage-farming and cowardice.

would actualy help some as they will focus more on the win  instead of saving their star.

[Gojuadorai]

26 minutes ago, Kazomir said:

Everyone from the losing team should lose a star.

For 3 or more consecutive victories, you should get awarded 2 stars.

 

This way you reward consistency, not damage-farming and cowardice.

 

thats a stupid idea ! why? cause its nothing but rng

 

lets sa y we have playa a and player b both average joes with WR 50%

 

player A: WWWLLLWWWLLL

player B: WLWLWLWLWLWL

 

why should player A rank while player B does not?

 rewarding/punishing streaks is a bad idea.

the system is not perfect but honestly without improvements to base XP calculations there is nothing that can be "fixed easy"

 

[AnotherDuck]

2 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

thats a stupid idea ! why? cause its nothing but rng

I find RNG to be better than promoting selfish play over team play. I mean, if I'm in a DD, why would I smoke up my team mates if that gives them more experience than it gives me?

[Gojuadorai]

22 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

I find RNG to be better than promoting selfish play over team play. I mean, if I'm in a DD, why would I smoke up my team mates if that gives them more experience than it gives me?

 

because if youre not an idiot  you will see that smoking up your teamates will take you less games to rank 1 than playing for no star loss with a 50% wr

[AnotherDuck]

7 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

because if youre not an idiot  you will see that smoking up your teamates will take you less games to rank 1 than playing for no star loss with a 50% wr

So to get the better deal, I have to actively throw away a strategic incentive coded into the system. That kind of tells me how little sense it makes to have that benefit to begin with.

[lameoll]

21 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

because if youre not an idiot  you will see that smoking up your teamates will take you less games to rank 1 than playing for no star loss with a 50% wr

no that just gives them a survival chance. if ur other dds go off to hunt the cv or something instead of spotting.

or the bbs just mindlesly use the smoke and even if the torps are spotted the proceed to eat them all.

ul get no xp for it and u still get a loss. and this still happends too often.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

The current system is correct as it preserves sanity.

 

Someone who plays to come top of a losing team isn't going to progress anyway...

 

But think of it another way. If half your team yolo suicides in the first few minutes then what are you meant to do other than try to farm to be top? There's a tipping point in every game where even a Super Unicum and RNJesus in your corner isn't going to save you, so this current system is fair imo.

[eliastion]

It would be better if the system just included a "forgiven defeat" mechanics. For example, every 5th defeat doesn't cost you a star, with limit of 2 stars saved that way a day (so that playing dozens of matches a day doesn't give you that much of an advantage). When the "best loser saves star" mechanics was first announced, I was all in favor of it. The practice, however, have proven me wrong: it has a very detrimental effect on both behavior of people and team spirit in general. So many times have I found myself literally rooting for the enemy because

 - I was dead

 - I saw the victory as pretty much impossible

 - I did enough to hope for the 1st place but every salvo from my "allies" landing on target increased my chances of losing a star

This does leave a bad taste in my mind, but it can't be helped - I saw that they don't stand a chance so I just wished that they would all instantly detonate, thus hopefully leaving me with 1st place (and star balance unchanged).

 

This is a very bad mechanic conceived for all the right reasons (as @Negativvv says: to reduce frustration of losing stars after playing a brilliant game). The base idea that someone who really performed well should be spared the full cost of defeat is good. But as things turn out in reality, with how deficient the system is with recognizing actual contribution? To quote the classic:

 

In the end the system, if anything, frustrated me MORE in the last season because of how often people completely undeserving of this saving grace got spared the loss while people who really worked hard (sometimes it being me, too) were kissing their precious stars good-bye. Oh, and once I myself saved a star after a bad match because - as the last one on the team - I managed to finish one low-hp DD and plant some torps into other now-reckless pursuers in my Shira... The way this works in practice is just not right, no matter how much I agree with the original reasoning behind this addition to the system. 

[Unintentional_submarine]

I agree with the principle of the system. I disagree with the implementation. Or rather I disagree with what it does to people. Because it is possible to farm XP that does little to nothing in regards to furthering a win, it is too tempting for many to just try and farm that XP at a certain point. And worse, that point might come at different time for different people. Some might get this urge triggered as soon as the first ship sunk is on their team.

Sure, few people actively try to play for topping a losing team, but their interpretation of what a losing team constitutes can be incredibly broad, leading to odd behaviours. And as long as they get that top spot that leads to their lessened win rate still being higher than their not-top-spot loss rate, they will do that. Sometimes people will still do it even when faced with a clear star loss over time.

 

So, even though I have perhaps enjoyed a favourable rate of top spot on losing battles so far, I think it should go until they find another way to measure contribution to winning, rather than just base XP. It isn't even fair in and of itself. Remember the Sims and the base XP farming people did with her? Yeah, not pretty.

[lup3s]

4 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

because if youre not an idiot  you will see that smoking up your teamates will take you less games to rank 1 than playing for no star loss with a 50% wr

So in order to reach rank 1 the fastest you just have to play a BB and use the smokes your allied DDs provide you?

Because if you lose, chance is high that you'll still be top loser, even though the DD provided all the means necessary.

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

5 hours ago, lup3s said:

So in order to reach rank 1 the fastest you just have to play a BB and use the smokes your allied DDs provide you?

Because if you lose, chance is high that you'll still be top loser, even though the DD provided all the means necessary.

 

Sorry Lupes, but guess who gets a massive bonus through cap xp? I am playing Anshan almost exclusively this season. I think I had two losses where I did lose a star despite doing okay, but in those cases the player that came in first always worked his rear off. Also had a 1v5 situation. Of course I killed off the low hp dds and then fought for as much damage as possible to save my star (success). 

 

Now, while I definitely will abstain from bragging in any other class, I'd say I know a thing or two  about dds. And in all honesty, if the camping HE spamming bb gets more xp than  me, it was I who made a mistake and got punished for it. A player of your calibre shouldn't complain in my opinion ;). Or as us fetishists of Latin say: "Respice post te, hominem te esse memento."

 

 

[SteDorff]

14 hours ago, Takru said:

If the base XP calculation would account for all actions done for a team, then it would be a useful mechanic, but it doesn't. Smoking up friendly ships for example doesn't yield any reward in base XP.

Exactly a spotting DD for instance is a gem for the team he can not be banging in rounds for then he will be spotted he does not do XP damage but is more valuable then a BB banging in rounds from a distance that is why it is flawed.

14 hours ago, SinkTheOthersNotMe said:

Stopped rank -> because as Aotearas said, top player of losing team should be awarded a star.

Occasional tomato/camping BB and so on...getting first place on losing team is unusual enough to not really be important.

Occasional camping? Have you been playing lately? You can witness it over and over if you pay attention to who ends top

[SteDorff]

16 hours ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Sorry, but I'm gonna play the get good card on this one. Everyone and their mother complains about teams, but then is also discontent if he doesn't suck the least. Yes, it may seem unfair at times, but crying wolf without having seen the game from your mates perspective is wrong.

It has nothing to to with complaining maybe you should read what I wrote first I don't mind losing all players lose from time to time I do however mind players getting a reward for playing like a chimpansee