Pensacola is still crap

[valrond]

Pensacola was pretty bad before, she was buffed in the concealment department, but that's it. It's a pretty horrible ship, were you can barely do anything at all, unless your opponents are complete noobs. There is no reason to pick this thing over any other tier 7 cruiser.

 

Let's see the good sides:

 

-Good guns, 10x203mm guns that pack a punch

 

-Good AA: Not as good as Cleveland but best in tier for a cruiser.

 

That's it. Let's see the bad side:

-No range. 15,7 km in a tier 7 cruiser is a joke. Tier 4 French cruiser has already  15 km range. Budyonny and De Grasse outrange this thing and they are tier 6. The OP Belfast has 15.4 km range on top of everything else it has. The schors has 16.8 km, the York 17.3 (bad arc, but still, good reach), the Algerie 16.3. Only the Myoko has a similar range with 15.6km, but that ship has a lot of upsides this one hasn't. 

 

-Low DPM. The reload of the guns is 15.8s. That's a lot of time for a ships that hasn't got any other way of dealing damage and has to get close to do some damage. And if you compare it to the Scharnorst, with 9x280mm guns at 20s, it's even worse.

 

-Non existant armor. She has the weakest armor of all cruisers of tier 7, maybe even in the game, cause even DDs can pen and citadel this thing. Very easy to citadel, even going away.

 

-No torpedos. All other regular tier 7 cruisers have torpedos, so they are a threat if the get close to a battleship, or can torp into smoke, this one doesn't have them. Only Belfast lacks torpedos at tier 7.

 

.No useful/special consumables: Just the usual AA/Hydro and Catapult Fighters.

 

So, what can we do?

 

A couple of buffs would help her.

1-Increase her range 1km to 16.7 km, so she doesn't have to come so close to the other ships, specially battleships, that can one shot her easily at 13-14 km.

2-Reduce the reload to 12-13s, to make up for its poor DPM.

 

It still won't be a top tier cruiser, but no the pain in the [edited]it is right now.

 

 

[pra3y]

You forgot about the Pensacola's ridiculous rudder shift. If you know how to kite the near dd like rudder shift will allow you to dodge shots like a boss.

[ColonelPete]

What are the upsides of Myoko compared to Pensa?

Stealth - yes.

Torpedos - rarely useful since the arcs are bad

 

Pensa has better guns, turrets and better AA.

Armor is comparable.

[VC381]

Err... Pensacola has much better stealth than Myoko these days. Also she's a very small target, has an insane rudder shift and a tight turning circle, turret traverse can actually keep up with the ship and turret angles are amazing for getting all guns on target while minimizing your own exposure. Also that AP.

 

Trouble is, most of her advantages are "soft" in that they aren't immediately obvious and require a bit of practice and players awareness to take advantage of. Difficult ship to play, maybe, and with a different playstyle that might not suit some players. But weak? No sir, no way.

 

Also your range argument makes no sense. Atago is one of the most OP ships in the game and has the same range as Pensacola while being a tier higher. Range isn't the only stat that matters and to be honest long range is a noob trap on basically all ships. The cruisers that have significantly longer range than Pensacola are lumped with a catalogue of other disadvantages, usually including terrible concealment and handling like a pregnant whale.

 

P.S. worst armour? Have you played Shchors?

[Exocet6951]

I found the Pensacola to be a lot of fun with a tight turn, decent acceleration, and good rudder shift.
Couple that to very fun AP, and you're already to really be a pain in the ***

But as always with non-radar and non-torpedo cruisers, you don't carry games.
 

The old girl bid me farewell a week ago, with my last match scoring me 15 citpens in a short and sweet 7 minute game.
Her only real weakness is if you happen to stumble upon a knifefight.

[Horin728]

Just search for my content on Pensacola on the forums, you will find a great guide for her. She is an awesome ship and was a pleasure to play after the HE rainbow  Cleveland

[makhot]

Also landing shells at range with Pensacolas arcs is already tricky, so a range buff wouldn't be all that useful.

 

What comes to rudder shift arguments, yes it is nice, but being an RNG based game you'll still going to get shells inside your citadel no matter how hard you'll maneuver.

 

Anyway I still have long way to go to form a solid opinion, I'm only through the PAINFUL stock grind. All I know for sure currently is that Pensacolas are one of my favorite targets among Nürnbergs such..

[Turin7]

I'm still going through the stock grind (just got the upgraded hull, need to unlock the top turrets) but I have to say it hasn't been nearly as bad as I have been hearing, I'm rather enjoying it really.

 

Sure the range is bad, but after the Cleveland (one of my fav ships, but I miss her glorious OP days during the CBT), 15.7 km looks pretty good. The guns are indeed amazing though the HE shells leave something to be desired. AP is great though, not much trouble hitting stuff with it. Manoeuvrability is pretty good, and her concealment allows you to get to effective gun range without trouble. She is a rather sizeable target, but it's great rudder shift kinda mitigates that.

 

All in all, seeing how much fun I'm having with her stock, I can't wait to play her fully upgraded.

[Flid_Merchant]

I think it's only fair that USS cruisers get torpedoes tbh. At first that was their thing - they get better AP and slightly better armour (or maybe just seemed so when being shot at by IJN) whereas IJN got torpedoes and great HE. Now though they feel out of place with pretty much every other cruiser in the game having them, not to mention they nearly all had them historically.

[valrond]

19 minutes ago, VC381 said:

Err... Pensacola has much better stealth than Myoko these days. Also she's a very small target, has an insane rudder shift and a tight turning circle, turret traverse can actually keep up with the ship and turret angles are amazing for getting all guns on target while minimizing your own exposure. Also that AP.

 

Trouble is, most of her advantages are "soft" in that they aren't immediately obvious and require a bit of practice and players awareness to take advantage of. Difficult ship to play, maybe, and with a different playstyle that might not suit some players. But weak? No sir, no way.

 

Also your range argument makes no sense. Atago is one of the most OP ships in the game and has the same range as Pensacola while being a tier higher. Range isn't the only stat that matters and to be honest long range is a noob trap on basically all ships. The cruisers that have significantly longer range than Pensacola are lumped with a catalogue of other disadvantages, usually including terrible concealment and handling like a pregnant whale.

 

P.S. worst armour? Have you played Shchors?

 

Seriously? Are you SERIOUSLY comparing the Atago with the Pensacola?. WOW. Your argument went down the drain with that comparison.

A few things the Atago is better than the Pensacola:

10 km torps

VASTLY better concealment, like getting into Russian DD range with the tier 8 module and concealment expert, which allows even invisi-torping

Far faster

Has heal

Has more HP

Seriously, the range in the Pensacola is bad because you have to get close and shoot, in an Atago, you can get to 10-12 kms unseen, drop torps (well, a bit closer for that) or throw a volley, go away and disappear. Range is not the only factor, but when your ships has no upsides except the guns, then the range is very important, specially when your armor is paper thing (literally, from 16-19 mm thin, so it doesn't matter if you angle, you will still eat citadels)

 

There is only one thing the Pensacola is better than the Atago: AA 

 

And yes, the Shchors has pretty bad armor and huge citadel, that doesn't mean Pensacola's armor isn't paper thing and can be penned by anything. 16mm bow, 19mm side and deck. The Schors is very similar, but has more range.

Finally, the Myoko has better armor (25mm deck and side armour, vs 19mm, even Flamu says it has trollish armor when angled), faster reload (14s vs 15.8s), 10 km torps, faster (35 vs 32 knots). Realy, again, only thing better on The Pensacola is AA, and a bit of concealment, but not much.

 

Dont' you believe me?, check warships today. last 2 weeks stats

Tier 7 CAs, Pensacola is 2nd to last in win ratio and 3rd to last in damage done, only the Haguro (which is a Myoko) and the Yorck (that also needs some help) are worse.

 

 

[IceyJones]

yeah.....the pensacola is so weak, you can do nothing with her

https://wowreplays.com/Replay/39596-IceyJones-Pensacola-Trident

 

problem is not the ship, problem are the casuals, that dont know how to use this knife

[pra3y]

58 minutes ago, makhot said:

Also landing shells at range with Pensacolas arcs is already tricky, so a range buff wouldn't be all that useful.

 

What comes to rudder shift arguments, yes it is nice, but being an RNG based game you'll still going to get shells inside your citadel no matter how hard you'll maneuver.

 

Anyway I still have long way to go to form a solid opinion, I'm only through the PAINFUL stock grind. All I know for sure currently is that Pensacolas are one of my favorite targets among Nürnbergs such..

 

I grind through the Pensacola before its concealment got buffed and enjoyed it. Sure before you upgrade everything it's painful but once everything has been upgraded its extremely fun. I use incoming fire alert so every time that sign lights up I just hard left or right depending on where those shells are coming from and then those shells just miss. I would go as far as to say that even though I'm always spotted miles away (pre-buff) I don't think I've ever been one shot, not with a rudder shift that RNG can't do anything about. Lol I've even charged an Iowa before and sank him while dodging his shots. Quite amusing.

[lameoll]

2 hours ago, valrond said:

 unless your opponents are complete noobs. 

 

YOUR in luck!!!!!

you will always have noobs in your team and in the enemy team.

about 10 of 12 are probably.

[EsaTuunanen]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

What are the upsides of Myoko compared to Pensa?

 

Armor is comparable.

Really nothing comparable in that.

While against BB AP all cruiser belt armors are same (only prevents overpens) Pensacola is clearly softer target for smaller APs, including DD AP.

And when angled midship side and deck of Myoko can bounce APs really well vs USN all or nothing tinfoil getting easily overmatched.

 

Same against HEs. All or nothing tinfoil is very vulnerable to small caliber HEs while Myoko's medium armor can block lots of small caliber HEs.

[VC381]

1 hour ago, valrond said:

 

Seriously? Are you SERIOUSLY comparing the Atago with the Pensacola?. WOW. Your argument went down the drain with that comparison.

A few things the Atago is better than the Pensacola:

10 km torps

VASTLY better concealment, like getting into Russian DD range with the tier 8 module and concealment expert, which allows even invisi-torping

Far faster

Has heal

Has more HP

Seriously, the range in the Pensacola is bad because you have to get close and shoot, in an Atago, you can get to 10-12 kms unseen, drop torps (well, a bit closer for that) or throw a volley, go away and disappear. Range is not the only factor, but when your ships has no upsides except the guns, then the range is very important, specially when your armor is paper thing (literally, from 16-19 mm thin, so it doesn't matter if you angle, you will still eat citadels)

 

There is only one thing the Pensacola is better than the Atago: AA 

 

And yes, the Shchors has pretty bad armor and huge citadel, that doesn't mean Pensacola's armor isn't paper thing and can be penned by anything. 16mm bow, 19mm side and deck. The Schors is very similar, but has more range.

Finally, the Myoko has better armor (25mm deck and side armour, vs 19mm, even Flamu says it has trollish armor when angled), faster reload (14s vs 15.8s), 10 km torps, faster (35 vs 32 knots). Realy, again, only thing better on The Pensacola is AA, and a bit of concealment, but not much.

 

Dont' you believe me?, check warships today. last 2 weeks stats

Tier 7 CAs, Pensacola is 2nd to last in win ratio and 3rd to last in damage done, only the Haguro (which is a Myoko) and the Yorck (that also needs some help) are worse.

 

Guess what? In Pensacola you can get to 11km from target undetected, unleash AP hell, wiggle and disappear again. I and other people have listed several other advantages of Pensacola plus disadvantages of other ships you insist on comparing it unfavorably to, which you've just chosen to ignore. If you're expecting something else from the ship there's no shame in admitting you don't like it and asking for help (which some have already offered despite your negative attitude). You could really learn a lot by asking politely for advice, instead of stating your opinion as fact and just digging in with rage and accusations when people disagree with your precious views.

 

And I love it when people stat dump. It proves nothing other than the fact most players don't know how to use the ship.

 

P.S. for the record I was not comparing Pensacola to Atago. I was only using the range they share to point out how absurd your argument is that lower tier ships having longer range somehow "proves" Pensacola is bad, when those ships are completely different and can't be compared on just one stat. Well done for being too blinded by your righteous indignation to understand the point of my post and the irony of your response.

[Spuggy]

I love the polarity in this thread.

 

Usually, when speaking of balance, if there is polarity of opinion and barely anything inbetween, there is a fair chance that balance is present.

 

Personally, I feel that most of the time that people are complaining about a ship and especially when there is polarity of opinion of the ship, all we truly require is a video made by the God Emperor Yuro to show us all the way in "How to [insert ship name]"

[Thracen]

Also one of the strongest aspects of the pensacola is the T7 mm, you can 1 shot same of lower tier ccs and you have the stealth so they wont see it coming. Don't go into dpm matches, hit then stealth away when the guns start to turn. She is harder to play but a more versatile ship than her peers.

[valrond]

1 hour ago, VC381 said:

 

Guess what? In Pensacola you can get to 11km from target undetected, unleash AP hell, wiggle and disappear again. I and other people have listed several other advantages of Pensacola plus disadvantages of other ships you insist on comparing it unfavorably to, which you've just chosen to ignore. If you're expecting something else from the ship there's no shame in admitting you don't like it and asking for help (which some have already offered despite your negative attitude). You could really learn a lot by asking politely for advice, instead of stating your opinion as fact and just digging in with rage and accusations when people disagree with your precious views.

 

And I love it when people stat dump. It proves nothing other than the fact most players don't know how to use the ship.

 

P.S. for the record I was not comparing Pensacola to Atago. I was only using the range they share to point out how absurd your argument is that lower tier ships having longer range somehow "proves" Pensacola is bad, when those ships are completely different and can't be compared on just one stat. Well done for being too blinded by your righteous indignation to understand the point of my post and the irony of your response.

 

Well, tell me then, if Pensacola is SOOOO GOOOOOD as you say, why every other freaking ship does more damage (except the Yorck)?

 

I made some good points in my opening post, the Pensacola has only one way of doing damage, its guns. That is the truth.

It has mediocre to bad range, worst in tier with the Myoko. That is the truth.

It has terrible armor, worst in class (toe to toe with Schchors). That is the truth.

It has a very slow reload of 15s. That is the truth.

It has mediocre concealment. Another truth.

 

And what do you get for all those negatives? Good guns and decent AA. You dont' get radar, heal, smoke, high speed, I don't know, ANYTHING to make up for being the worst at almost everything. I don't think asking for a bit more range and bit faster reload is too much for a ship that clearly underperforms.

 

Right now, the ONLY reason to play the Pensacola is to get to the New Orleans. Heck, I'm grinding the Ranger and I find it a lot better (and I also have the Saipan and the Kaga) than the Pensacola, it brings something to the table.

 

And I don't make this thread asking for advice with the Pensacola, the ship has problems, not me. The stats prove that. Belfast is harder to use that the Pensacola, but still does a lot more than the Pensacola. So, don't make it a L2P issue. There is an issue with the ship (and with the Yorck, but that's for another thread).

[Exocet6951]

Just now, valrond said:

 

Well, tell me then, if Pensacola is SOOOO GOOOOOD as you say, why every other freaking ship does more damage (except the Yorck)?

 

 

 

 

The simple truth that has been true since the opening days of CBT?
People get used to the extremely forgiving nature of the Cleveland, then hit the brick wall that is the Pensacola.
No more troll citadel, no more enormous DPM, no more enormous AA that makes even tier8 CVs say "nope, going around"

Instead, they get a glass cannon, and they can't deal with it.
So the first impression is "this ship sucks" and that's what sticks.
A bit like the Izumo, which after all the buffs is a rather formidable tier9 BB, despite a few incomprehensible weaknesses.



The same thing happens with the Yorck only that's a double penalty for it, as it gets long range, so people are tempted to stick back with it. And considering it has WWI era potato launchers for guns, the damage counter takes a predictable hit.

[philjd]

Just unlocked my Peppsi and have to say that I am enjoying it (what little I have played so far) much more 'me' than the Indianapolis which I do not know how to work yet

.

[VC381]

48 minutes ago, valrond said:

And what do you get for all those negatives? Good guns and decent AA.

 

As I keep saying, the ship turns on a dime and has very good gun handling and turret angles. You keep ignoring that. Also the concealment is above average for her tier, only Fiji and Belfast are better. It has the tools to fight effectively at the medium ranges it's meant to. If you refuse to accept those tools are there and that it's a valid playstyle I can't help you. It's not even a L2P issue, just a playstyle one. Clearly the ship doesn't suit you, but just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad. I will never understand why people play ships they don't like and ask for them to be buffed. If all the others are better why not play them instead? Because you want a New Orleans? I have bad news for you, if this is your experience and attitude at Pensacola, the best advice I can give is for you to quit the line.

[lameoll]

2 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

 

The simple truth that has been true since the opening days of CBT?
People get used to the extremely forgiving nature of the Cleveland, then hit the brick wall that is the Pensacola.
No more troll citadel, no more enormous DPM, no more enormous AA that makes even tier8 CVs say "nope, going around"

Instead, they get a glass cannon, and they can't deal with it.
So the first impression is "this ship sucks" and that's what sticks.
 

this !  they instantly go to whine mode instead of learning how to play the ship.

 

[Ze_Reckless]

What's easier? Learning how to play a ship / this game? Or crying to WG for changes? The only difference to comparable whine threads is, this is not a BBaby crying.

[Nechrom]

Pensacola strengths ignored by the OP:

• Great turning circle and good rudder shift.
• Great firing angles on the main guns. (30° from straight forward and back)
• 2nd best concealment of all tier 7 cruisers.
• Best gun traverse speed of the tier 7 heavy cruisers.

[Mr_Tayto]

Well I was rubbish with Cleve but hoping to do better with Pensa. 

 

Unlocked it today and free xped the modules thanks to this thread. Haven't played her yet.