IJN Haruna (1945) as a tier 6 permium; how to make it work

[Affeks]

So with how WG is handlig many premium ships lately (Mutsu, ex-gangut) the possibility of the same treatment happening to Kongo seems like a huge possibility. Especially also since the Kongo class ships are one of IJN's most symbolic and longest serving ships.

 

So first some comments about her characteristics.

 

Survivability

Due to Kongos already sizable HP pool and quite effective armor scheme despite thin belt armor tells us that this is not an area Haruna would be lacking. Haruna would most likely get tier 6 25mm bow, stern and plating as well as even more HP compared to Kongo because of the extra weight added with the refits and/or by the increase in tier. Im not 100% sure how HP pool is calculated so I want some expert comment on this.

 

Main armament

This is an are Haruna will be lacking, but soft buffs can help offset this a little, but main guns will and should be one of her weaknesses. I say buff reload to 28 seconds so that its at least there with Fuso and a sigma buff. A sigma of 2.0 would mean shes at least a bit reliable, but would still be outclassed by Warspites much bigger guns or just the sheer volume of Fuso/NM/Arizona. 

 

Secondaries

As we know Haruna was stripped of half her 6" guns, but in return got another pair of twin 5" dp guns. This means that she could get HE shells on the 6" guns since theres only 4 per side. This would be very comparable to Warspite which also has 4 6" guns per side and HE shells loaded. All in all the tradeoff for the extra 5" guns is welcome to many and we'll probably see her range land on 5km. Buffing this area could help her offset her shortcomings.

 

AA

60 dps @5km thanks to those extra 5" guns makes her long range AA alone quite respectable.

The 30 triple and 18 single 25mm AA guns would me she has ~214dps @3.1 km, which is really quite a lot. This would mean AA will be one of her strengths. Since the main punching power lies in the mid range AA, this is far from crazy overpowered so I think this stat will be left untouched by WG.

 

Agility

Top speed stays 30 knots, meaning that shes tops the current tier 6s.

I still expect Haruna to keep Kongos mediocre turning circle, but the slow rudder might get touched up a bit, giving her a bit more edge in CQC. 

 

Concealment

I need some help here. Idk if Haruna is any taller than the current "Kongo, so if any of yall know pls tell as this will help determine if theres a chance Haruna will be more or less stealthy than Kongo.

 

So in short, this things will change:

Survivability = + X HP, +25mm plating, (bigger superstructure?)

Main battery = 

Secondary = -6 6" AP,  +4 5" HE

AA = +20dps@5km, +++TONS OF DPS@3.1km

Maneouverability =

Concealment = n/a

Is this enough to justify a tier higher? Please post thoughts about this.

 

Personally I think this would be enough

Survivability = + X HP, +25mm plating, (bigger superstructure?)

Main battery = +0.2 sigma, +0.1 rounds per minute (2.1 rpm same as fuso)

Secondary = -6 6" AP,  +4 5" HE, +5 km secondary range

AA = +20dps@5km, +++TONS OF DPS@3.1km

Maneouverability = -0.6 second rudder shift time

Concealment =

Just a little more reliable guns and a bit more responsive rudder would be enough to make up for it imo.

[Mr_Mistery]

i dont think the game need more repainted clone ships like missouri and mutsu,and why? simple both class leader in the game now the little difference is not count

[Affeks]

i dont think the game need more repainted clone ships like missouri and mutsu,and why? simple both class leader in the game now the little difference is not count

... 

This whole OP is writing on how it is not a repaint, and what made you think Mutsu is a repaint? It plays very differently and compared to its contemporaries it has different strengths and weaknesses. Come back when you have a a good suggestion on how to let non-class lead ships be represented in the game.

[WolfGewehr]

Judging by scale drawings, the height difference between Haruna and ingame Kongo cough Hiei is minimal. Still need to find better reference to actually tell how tall they were, judging from pics approx 36 - 39m* from waterline to the top of the pagoda.

 

 

*Depends whether you measure it with the rangefinder/radar/whatever on top of the pagoda or not. Anyways, both pagodas seem to be equally tall anyways, so I don't think they affect the concealment at all.

 

Pics I used:

 

 

 

 

 

With fast googling I couldn't find a scale draw of Haruna

[Affeks]

To be honest this way of doing premiums is ingenious. First and foremost, it lets people have a premium version of their fav silver ship. That way they dont need to worry about having to retrain captain all the time, and they can earn extra commander xp and silver along the way. Secondly WG earns money off it even if sales are bad since most of the ship model is already in the game, meaning these ships are much easier and faster to make, meaning that this in turn earn them great profit so WG can spend more money developing the game. 

 

Everybody wins.

Well except Iowa cpts since Missouri is just a straight powercreep over Iowa...

[Mr_Tayto]

I've only juts unlocked Kongo and enjoying it so far. She seems like one I'd like to keep for retraining etc., so I'm all for it.

 

Mutsu was my first experience of IJN BBs and it's great fun.

[Affeks]

Judging by scale drawings, the height difference between Haruna and ingame Kongo cough Hiei is minimal. Still need to find better reference to actually tell how tall they were, judging from pics approx 36 - 39m* from waterline to the top of the pagoda.

 

 

Depends whether you measure it with the rangefinder/radar/whatever on top of the pagoda or not. Anyways, both pagodas seem to be equally tall anyways, so I don't think they affect the concealment at all.

 

Pics I used:

 

 

 

 

TY for the info, i never expected the concealment to vary by more than a couple hundred meters anyway, but clearing it up still helps.

 I tried to get some pics in the OP to compare "kongo" and Haruna, but my phone didnt let me haha

[Vanhal]

I already have the only Haruna i wanted

 

[WolfGewehr]

Here's an another pic, this time Hiei and Kirishima at same, but sadly, unknown scale:

 

Would need to play with the ruler again to get the meters out, but this time it seems Hiei is a bit taller. Anyways, maybe better for me to close the PC as thunder is starting to roar outside. Lightning showed up while writing

[Affeks]

I already have the only Haruna i wanted

Weeb detected :^)

Here's an another pic, this time Hiei and Kirishima at same, but sadly, unknown scale:

 

Would need to play with the ruler again to get the meters out, but this time it seems Hiei is a bit taller. Anyways, maybe better for me to close the PC as thunder is starting to roar outside. Lightning showed up while writing

The rangefinders are on top of the superstructure right? If the superstructure is lower that might well mean range is lowered as well... its a trade Id take, but a tradeoff that needs to be considered nonetheless

[VC381]

I would completely support something like this, and would probably buy it. I have all the ARP versions in port and I love the Kongo class both as a ship and in terms of gameplay. But I don't play them much because T5 sucks... and not in the way you think. I actually think Kongo's potential is hugely wasted at that tier, constantly shoved onto small maps where you can't use the speed properly and dumb as wood team-mates in complete cluseterf*** battles (hint: I don't find low tiers fun). Having played Hood now, I think a Kongo class would excel as a T6. The soft stats would make it supremely comfortable ergonomically and you could dash around the map performing surgical strikes. In short, the perfect battlecruiser. To be honest, I'm not sure she would even need major buffs to be viable, I agree in principle with all your suggestions. I mean, Dunkerque is T6 after all and apart from the super unqiue turret layout, not much different in terms of overall power level.

 

But, given we have Mutsu and Ishizuchi, now Kaga and rumoured Ashitaka (Amagi stock hull at T7), I feel this is something we won't see. It's clear WG are signalling the IJN premium "theme" is early fit of their respective ships, not later upgrades. I would sooner put my money on Yamashiro 1920s version being a T5 premium than Haruna being one at T6.

[ShinGetsu]

The simple addition of the Ruddershift module at tier 6 would double the potential of the Kongo-class actually.

Give it maybe a bit shorter reload, a bit more AA and a less horrible turret rotation, and that would be a very, very decent tier 6.

 

Those ship are almost legendary for me. They fought bravely during the WW2, exactly like how the Myouko class and Takao class did. I believe they deserves a bit more love than "simple" reskin and a change of name.

[Affeks]

The simple addition of the Ruddershift module at tier 6 would double the potential of the Kongo-class actually.

Give it maybe a bit shorter reload, a bit more AA and a less horrible turret rotation, and that would be a very, very decent tier 6.

 

Those ship are almost legendary for me. They fought bravely during the WW2, exactly like how the Myouko class and Takao class did. I believe they deserves a bit more love than "simple" reskin and a change of name.

Going up against South Dakota takes some balls indeed. 

[Vanhal]

Weeb detected :^)

 

[WolfGewehr]

The rangefinders are on top of the superstructure right? If the superstructure is lower that might well mean range is lowered as well... its a trade Id take, but a tradeoff that needs to be considered nonetheless

 

Yes they are. Judging from that Hiei - Kirishima picture, the difference in position (height installed) between the rangefinders looks like 1-2m, so not much. Without proper scales and blueprints it's a bit useless to try analyze the pics further, but we still get the conclusion; height difference is small enough it shouldn't affect ingame concealment or firing range at all, unless they want to tweak them a bit for balance^TM .

 

Anyways I (again) agree with your proposal, the idea of Haruna as a tier 6 premium has been on air ever since the good ol' days. Would buy unless they managed to fück it up

 

But if they'd do this, they have to model her correctly. Btw, does anybody actually know why they on year 0 decided to model especially Hiei and use her as Kongo?

[VC381]

 

But if they'd do this, they have to model her correctly. Btw, does anybody actually know why they on year 0 decided to model especially Hiei and use her as Kongo?

 

I assume it's something mundane like an easily available book or set of drawings showing Hiei but not Kongo. There is a polish series called Profile Morskie that definitely has a detailed entry on Hiei, it might have just been what the office had handy at the time.

 

As for rangefinder height, I'm pretty sure it's not the only factor in WGs calculations and they can tweak as necessary. Also, Hiei had a more modern combined director control tower while the other three had the older separate rangefinder and director setup.

[Mucker]

Nice proposal, and while we're at it, WG pls add Yamashiro as Fuso stock hull cheep T5 premium, to counter that Gangutt. 

[22cm]

Not really needed, Mutsu is enough on tier 6.

[Affeks]

Not really needed, Mutsu is enough on tier 6.

 

Its not a matter of need, Haruna would play very differently to Mutsu. Also this isnt a "get it ingame right now" thread, more like speculating how it might work in game.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I'd love to see a late war Kongo class BB as would a lot of players out there. Seems like WG doesn't care too much however 

 

Although personally I find the Dunkerque a spiritual successor to the Kongo, has that delicious squishy Battlecruiser vibe at mid tiers anyway...

[Affeks]

I'd love to see a late war Kongo class BB as would a lot of players out there. Seems like WG doesn't care too much however 

 

Although personally I find the Dunkerque a spiritual successor to the Kongo, has that delicious squishy Battlecruiser vibe at mid tiers anyway...

 

To an extent, but the all fore arrangement really makes it play different to any other BB imo. Thing is that Kongo isnt really that squishy any more, with the lowered and now sloped citadel, the thickened upper armor belt as well as the 38mm deck really means she aint a squishy battlecruiser any more.

[Philipp_ab_exterminatore]

I would buy her

A Kongo class at tier 6 would be a lot of fun

[Johan_Jung]

Kongo as tier IV (stock hull, ww1)

Hiei as tier V (just rename current Kongo)

Haruna as tier VI (1945)

 

and, Kirishima as tier V (1942), a possible reward ship?

[Affeks]

Kongo as tier IV (stock hull, ww1)

Hiei as tier V (just rename current Kongo)

Haruna as tier VI (1945)

 

and, Kirishima as tier V (1942), a possible reward ship?

 

Choices choices....

 

Well anyway I also hope they release tier 4 premium Kongo soon so they have to at least buff Myogi a little to not make it look like a blatant money grab.... oh wait Le Gali and De Grasse have a say in this it seems....

[VC381]

Well, we already kind of have a stock Kongo at T4 in Ishizuchi. Yes, she has one of the design study armament layouts (not the as-built) but apart from that she's visually a WWI Kongo class in every other way.