Non radar cruisers in cyclones

[Thracen]

How do you do play in non radar ccs in cyclones? I ask because I simply can't. If I get within 8km of a BB I die, angled or not, single salvo bow to stern all crits all the time.

 

So, how is it done? I need someone to tell me so I don't believe that every 1in 15 games I just can't play my ship properly by design.

 

Yes I am a salty raging buthurt player that has just had 2 matches in a row in my t9 ccs and got 1 shot twice in a row by surprise BBs that stealth just as well as I can all of a sudden, not forgetting that 1 BB as 9.45km radar. Seriously am I being unreasonable or is this complete nerf every so often that also gives a huge buff to the most numerous and powerful class?

 

Why care so much about balance? Because if you are paying money for camo and flags and get thrown into a cyclone match you've just lost money. OH that and game enjoyment, fair play and all that jazz. Jesus and wolves have a sense of fair play apparently.

 

I also get thrown into matches when I'm the only CC at all, I can't tell you how much it sucks playing those matches knowing every BB on the map is looking for you and only you.

[lameoll]

you get a cyclone warning well in advance.

the best thing u can do is group up with your team and take note of where the enemy was last spotted.

 

[fallenkezef]

In my RN CLs I play operation hide behind the BBaby till the storm clears

[Thracen]

ok lameoll, Sounds right in theory but in practise, you still need to close within 8km to see a target to shoot at, at which point what is your target going to do when he see's you?

 

If you answered, A: Hammer all his firepower into you over your BB escort counterpart you might just be right. I never sail in front in a cyclone, I try to take a flank next to my bbs so if we discover an enemy they at least have to turn their turrets, this is however very hard as you have to estimate the position of the enemy by dead reckoning often minutes after they were last spotted. 

 

You're both simply confirming that under these circumstances you must hide behind a BB, ie, BBs become stronger and CCs become weaker. 

[Flid_Merchant]

I like the cyclone element but I feel that rather than a hard cap on visibility, it should be scaled according to your normal detection area. Otherwise it's pretty much a complete nerf to DDs as you cannot see the huge battleship through the storm any sooner than you are spotted yourself. I have a feeling this may make certain elements of the playerbase cry though.

[ColonelPete]

How do you do play in non radar ccs in cyclones? I ask because I simply can't. If I get within 8km of a BB I die, angled or not, single salvo bow to stern all crits all the time.

 

So, how is it done? I need someone to tell me so I don't believe that every 1in 15 games I just can't play my ship properly by design.

 

Yes I am a salty raging buthurt player that has just had 2 matches in a row in my t9 ccs and got 1 shot twice in a row by surprise BBs that stealth just as well as I can all of a sudden, not forgetting that 1 BB as 9.45km radar. Seriously am I being unreasonable or is this complete nerf every so often that also gives a huge buff to the most numerous and powerful class?

 

Why care so much about balance? Because if you are paying money for camo and flags and get thrown into a cyclone match you've just lost money. OH that and game enjoyment, fair play and all that jazz. Jesus and wolves have a sense of fair play apparently.

 

I also get thrown into matches when I'm the only CC at all, I can't tell you how much it sucks playing those matches knowing every BB on the map is looking for you and only you.

 

• stay together
• stay behind your bb, he will spot enemies before you, you are warned and enemy might focus the bb
• move into a different angle toward the enemy as the bb before you, that way you have even more warning when the turrets turn towards you and the enemy can angle against both of you (but it is better to have even more teammates there)

[Thracen]

At 8 km, most bbs will auto pen at whatever angle you can get too. Part of the problem is that bbs can be so large at high tier that within 8km you have to choose to angle for either the back or front turrets because you can't cover both. 

 

Would you care to address the main crux of the topic, that this is a huge nerf for any cc without radar or smoke? In fact it's a nerf for smoke ccs in some ways too, less likely to have a target once smoked and way more easily charged.

 

also dds have smoke and detection often 2km under the 8km cyclone spotting distance. I have no trouble dd'ing in cyclone conditions.

[havaduck]

You can do nothing. Sure depending on circumstance you can go cap, lay a torp ambush, find a lonely cruiser or anything - but most of the time a BB will shoot you over a Tirpitz even launching Torps form 2 km into his side. Why? Because he can delete your shitty cruiser as it pleases him - and by now they know that. You cant even hope to kill a 3k hp Tirpitz before he deletes you .......

 

 

Cyclone is just another buff-mode for a class that doesnt need it at all.

 

After everything you can just hope to make that 1 salvo into 3 - max. If your team isnt potato that BB, that certainly didnt need the buff, will get the kill on you, and your BB may get some free damage on the enemy BB. You get 500 creds and 1 pts of base xp out of that - max.

 

 

move into a different angle toward the enemy as the bb before you, that way you have even more warning when the turrets turn towards you and the enemy can angle against both of you (but it is better to have even more teammates there)

 

Which only really helps if you are coming from-completely THE OTHER side as BB nowadays have better turret rotation than cruisers (ofc! why woulnt they) and 1 salvos reload time is usually enough for them to get their guns 180 ° turned around - go figure.

 

 

The only thing that really helps: Having a cruiser that is notorious for being even shittier than you in front. German CLs will do, a Shores is also a good target. Next thing is a DD (because thats an actual threat) - but those cant get to close anyway thanks to reg.-pens along their lengths and crazy 2ndaries if its a german BB. (And lets face it, it usually is. P2W-itz really need that buff so I can both torp-rush shít, shoot crap, AND cover its entire cyclon-bubble with 2ndaries. He really outplayed you with that open-wallet-move, so you should just accept your defeat like a good silver peasant should do anyway).

 

 

Another secret hack is that BB players are more than ever complete idiots. Sure that doesnt involve you outplaying him (also you shouldnt anyway - he might complain on the forums and WG buffs BBs even further), but you would be amazed what stupid bs you get to see from time to time. Even the ones firing nothing but HE havent died out yet, although most of the die-hard-fúcktards have learnt by now (and thats telling a lot about how shitty cruisers truly are!) that loading the "skill" and aiming in the general direction of a cruiser will reliably let that black icon popping up, that "Jingles keeps talking about ..... so thats good, right?"

 

 

 

At this point I think the most promising tactic would be to get a transportation-ticket to a WG headquarters, Paris, Cyprus, Saint Petersburg and take a dumps on a variation of desks after visits to all an All-you-can-eat. You might have to repeat the process a few times, but if a population as stupid as our BB players can learn how shitty a cruiser is and what magic AP does to them, then I think even WG will get the message at some point. Question is: Faster or slower than the BB-population, because:

You got to keep in mind: Those are the "brilliant minds" that thought "Tears of the Desert" and "Epicenter" is a good combination - just as one of many examples.

[ColonelPete]

I have had good results with that tactic.

 

BB will focus the other BB and angle towards him. When you pop up 15 to 30s later, he either ignores you or starts turning his turrets. If he targets you, you angle towards him, or, with enough time, angle away from him and increase distance.

In a Xv1 fight (x>=2) the enemy goes quickly down at that range. With 3 or more ships you do not need to worry about the BB taking you out.

 

 

[Dampfboot]

Unfortunately shitweather simulator screws most cruisers hard. But also gunboat DDs and CVs. WG ensists it is a fun & engaging gameplay mechanic. Go figure but they also think RPF is what the game needed.

 

Anyway, excuse my rant, best thing you can do is group up with a BB, maybe another cruiser. Then you have a kill group and a pretty good chance. Form groups of 2-3 ships and try to kill the enemy one by one. Works often in random. Its not fun but at least you don't get screwed completely.

[Flid_Merchant]

 

 

also dds have smoke and detection often 2km under the 8km cyclone spotting distance. I have no trouble dd'ing in cyclone conditions.

 

You make a good point, finding targets is often the hard part. I still think this would be a fairer way to apply this to all ships though, except those DDs you mentioned would then be able to close to 3km before being detected. I do like dynamic weather and I think maybe some visibility factor should be applied at all times, ie sometimes you start and it is clearly pissing down with rain even though not technically a cyclone, visibility should be at 75%. It might also help address the sniping issue but of course could introduce other issues into the game.

[havaduck]

Anyway, excuse my rant, best thing you can do is group up with a BB, maybe another cruiser. Then you have a kill group and a pretty good chance. Form groups of 2-3 ships and try to kill the enemy one by one. Works often in random. Its not fun but at least you don't get screwed completely.

 

This.

 

Thing is the enemy does the same. Even sheep bunch up so they can all die to the same lightning, so thats no skill they had to actively learn.

 

I went into several enemy ships, threw my ship away, traded a ok healthy T7 BB for a full hpT9 BBs - allowed us to win that way. You cant do that in cruiser because you lack everything from armor to concealment to weapons to speed, to manoeuvrability to do that. Go figure, it the general problem with cruiser just amplified and forced into a zone, where the BB shell flight times are 1/2 of you ruddershift at best, and his dispersion doesnt matter at all. With a german BB now its even debatable if a cruiser is a valid target for the main battery at all. Lets say its damaged from the earlier game -> lol 2ndaries + fire will deal with it.

[Gnirf]

As the other says stay with your group is a safe bet but it is not always possible. Do you play in a ship that has good torps you might try to find ways to position yourself that at least make the BB pay for killing you, note here that IJN cruisers has poor arcs if you are not fleeing.

 

What is the overall situation? When the countdown for cyclone starts can you stay with the group ur do your team need to do something. Can you use the cover of cyclon to move. Are the teams thinned out. Many times you can not stay, you have to take risks as the points, ship or cap situation does not allow defensive play , sometimes it is better to defend.  Are there lots of radar ships cvs or else still in game. Dds that can scout for you or the enemy. Where are the enemys? Are they fast Iowas, deadly Yamatos or strong deadly but slow Colorados, can you move so that once you are detected you can disengage if not with ease, so at least so you are not trapped. I can not say that I always practice what i write down , but sometimes you do need to take risks as it is clear that the enemy must be whittled down during cyclon, see also if you can follow the enemy and friendly ships if they seem to go somewhere when the range shrinks, Must enemy go somewhere? Do you need to help or do you have to challenge a cap. Many games have turned around because of passivity in cyclon others have been thrown away because the team in lead take unnecessary risks.

 

I am not sure that I like cyclons, I can say it is challenging even almost fun to have one when it takes long sessions between them - but at least I find it interesting to discuss. I want more input from other players as it is interesting to know how other people tackle it. Especially regarding which ship you have. Neptune can smoke up but has no radar (in my config) but some other cruisers do. US have no torps. French only 3/side.

 

But it is also very different if you have the cyclon in standard or domination. 

[Aotearas]

Either group up to mass firepower, or if that isn't an option, try to ambush the enemy from a direction opposite than the last enemy they had eyes on to catch them with guns facing the wrong direction.

 

Nothing says "oh crap" quite like a Minotaur popping up to one's broadside at 8km and you need thirty seconds to bring your guns on target

[Thracen]

Well the consensus is group up and ideally do it with a big ship then maneuver as best you can for survivability.

 

I don't think anyone here believes they're better off using these tactics in a cyclone than the BB they have to follow around. So on the whole we think that ccs get a big old slap in the face during cyclones?

[dasCKD]

Load AP, pick up your torpedoes, and remember that you only live once.

[havaduck]

Nothing says "oh crap" quite like a Minotaur popping up to one's broadside at 8km and you need thirty seconds to bring your guns on target

 

+

 

 Non radar cruisers in cyclones

 

 

Minotaur doest count, it can equip radar. *sry I just couldnt resist*

 

 

Tbh like with anything else, british cruiser are not as affected. Smoke + Hydro + good torps/angles + ub0r heal + nobody is allowed to turn away from them ........ geeeeee that all together nearly reminds me of a certain other class.

 

 

Still, I rather face a Minotaur (+ friends) all of a sudden in a cyclone in a Zao (you can read in the achivement thread how that went for the Mino last time. Lets just say we did go from 1 vs 4 to 0 vs 2 ), than even only 1 or 2 BalancedBoats.

 

 

So on the whole we think that ccs get a big old slap in the face during cyclones?

 

 

Its philosophical.  If a cruiser is the epitome superlative of shít and it gets worse, did the cruiser get shittier?

 

Also add gunboat DDs. Nothing spells "fun" like a Gnevny being utterly useless because there is a cyclone and 3 Tirpitz bunched up together for him to "fight".

[Skurfa]

As every other poster said, team up with a few BB's and hopefully overwhelm enemies comming into sight (cause they didn't).... and as sais too, it's cruiser torpedo time 

 

[eliastion]

Also add gunboat DDs. Nothing spells "fun" like a Gnevny being utterly useless because there is a cyclone and 3 Tirpitz bunched up together for him to "fight".

 

Although DDs can still have a shot at doing something, since they are still invisible when they spot the BB. Smoke still works, as long as they're not alone. Or they can smoke the ally and spot. Or they can try a yolo charge (even sub-par gunboat torps are deadly up-close and if other enemies are just a little bit too far, they won't be able to support your target, so you only need to worry about this one ship's weaponry).

Basically a DD still has options. A cruiser just finds herself in insta-death zone of the enemy BB. Already spotted. Too sluggish to turn away in time. One chance is that the BB is as surprised as you are and you get to charge him and torp before you die - but that requires a cruiser with very forward-facing torps and/or a BB making a blunder - because a good BB player will know what you're trying to do and is either going to make your life pitiful by turning away (some are nimble enough to do that) before you close in enough OR he can wait for you - he knows you need to turn to torp and if he also knows at what angle best to pull the trigger... well, he'll pull it before you get to get your torps to bear, most likely.

[Darth_Glorious]

Just ram the BB, easy 35-40k dmg 

 

[G3Virus]

Unfortunately shitweather simulator screws most cruisers hard. But also gunboat DDs and CVs. WG ensists it is a fun & engaging gameplay mechanic. Go figure but they also think RPF is what the game needed.

 

Anyway, excuse my rant, best thing you can do is group up with a BB, maybe another cruiser. Then you have a kill group and a pretty good chance. Form groups of 2-3 ships and try to kill the enemy one by one. Works often in random. Its not fun but at least you don't get screwed completely.

 

Yea Missuri was my first real Radar boat (my New Orleans dont count because its an exercise in futility).

 

A lot of people told me that Radar dont work in cyclone, well seems like a lot of people think that

 

Well its hilarious to troll everyone with radar in cyclones, broadside cruisers, BB's like Kurfursts.

I can touch you but you cant touch me

 

Got my Edinburgh yesterday, mounted radar because Im no pussies for smoke and there I found my self in a Cyclone trolling ships again

 

Anyway Im a big hater of the cyclone and not all DD's have sub 8km detection and definitely not Cruisers.

I sure want weather effect but that would be waves if anything, normal weather variations realy not this "cyclone" crap.

They might as well call it a fog bank because thats more appropriate.

 

I use the fog remover mod so for me the detection ranges are the only real difference.

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

Cyclone + cruiser?

Are you a DM? Do you have torps?

if yes then go and sink all those pesky reds.

 

If none of the above then run or go group with a BB.

[ColonelPete]

At first radar did not work in cyclones, but they changed it some time ago.

[Sons_of_Horus]

You can do nothing. Sure depending on circumstance you can go cap, lay a torp ambush, find a lonely cruiser or anything - but most of the time a BB will shoot you over a Tirpitz even launching Torps form 2 km into his side. Why? Because he can delete your shitty cruiser as it pleases him - and by now they know that. You cant even hope to kill a 3k hp Tirpitz before he deletes you .......

 

 

Cyclone is just another buff-mode for a class that doesnt need it at all.

 

After everything you can just hope to make that 1 salvo into 3 - max. If your team isnt potato that BB, that certainly didnt need the buff, will get the kill on you, and your BB may get some free damage on the enemy BB. You get 500 creds and 1 pts of base xp out of that - max.

 

 

 

Which only really helps if you are coming from-completely THE OTHER side as BB nowadays have better turret rotation than cruisers (ofc! why woulnt they) and 1 salvos reload time is usually enough for them to get their guns 180 ° turned around - go figure.

 

 

The only thing that really helps: Having a cruiser that is notorious for being even shittier than you in front. German CLs will do, a Shores is also a good target. Next thing is a DD (because thats an actual threat) - but those cant get to close anyway thanks to reg.-pens along their lengths and crazy 2ndaries if its a german BB. (And lets face it, it usually is. P2W-itz really need that buff so I can both torp-rush shít, shoot crap, AND cover its entire cyclon-bubble with 2ndaries. He really outplayed you with that open-wallet-move, so you should just accept your defeat like a good silver peasant should do anyway).

 

 

Another secret hack is that BB players are more than ever complete idiots. Sure that doesnt involve you outplaying him (also you shouldnt anyway - he might complain on the forums and WG buffs BBs even further), but you would be amazed what stupid bs you get to see from time to time. Even the ones firing nothing but HE havent died out yet, although most of the die-hard-fúcktards have learnt by now (and thats telling a lot about how shitty cruisers truly are!) that loading the "skill" and aiming in the general direction of a cruiser will reliably let that black icon popping up, that "Jingles keeps talking about ..... so thats good, right?"

 

 

 

At this point I think the most promising tactic would be to get a transportation-ticket to a WG headquarters, Paris, Cyprus, Saint Petersburg and take a dumps on a variation of desks after visits to all an All-you-can-eat. You might have to repeat the process a few times, but if a population as stupid as our BB players can learn how shitty a cruiser is and what magic AP does to them, then I think even WG will get the message at some point. Question is: Faster or slower than the BB-population, because:

You got to keep in mind: Those are the "brilliant minds" that thought "Tears of the Desert" and "Epicenter" is a good combination - just as one of many examples.

 

The level of butt hurt in this post almost made my butt hurt.

[anonym_1YeUldJS8pjx]

Unfortunately shitweather simulator screws most cruisers hard. But also gunboat DDs and CVs. WG ensists it is a fun & engaging gameplay mehanic.

Hm. And yeah, I think those storms can be fun too.

 

Playing CV in cyclon is quite easy IMO, as long as you don't run an air superiority setup.

You can send fighters to spot enemys and then you bombers to those spotted targets. If you spot the enemy you have to be very quick to launch a drop in the first attack run, but it's doable. As planes are seen late too they are not focused that early and survive quite well. You don't have to care about enemy CV much during cyclon cause you won't spot his planes and he not yours most of the times.

 

Cruisers: 

If your CA has Torps - congratulations. You will never ever come that close to an enemy BB befor getting spotted. Make sure the enemy is spotted by your teammates before so don't run solo around. If your CA has good AA stay with your BBs - they can be easily bombed during cyclons (see above).

 

Most DD are still stealthier than 8km vierange in cyclons. If enemy is located by a teammember torpruns are still manageable. Capping is also an option if you have a smoke ready to use if soemthing appears. Problably the shipclass which really has no benefits but the disadvantage of ships appearing which otherwise could have been seen long time ago.