Can we stop this (There is a High DD Meta in game) Crap, Its just not True

[T0byJug]

Guys/Gals there is a Heavy BB meta in game at the moment.

BUT THERE IS NO HIGH DD META its all imagination (mainly by BB players)

 

Here are the numbers for the 2 months leading up to 27/05/2017

 

Ships brought to battle 

 

Low Tier 1-5

BB=28%

CA/CL= 50%

DD=17.6%

CA=4%

High tier 6-10

BB=42%

CA/CL=33%

CV=3%

DD=21%

Tier 8-10

BB=46%

CA/CL=28%

CV=3.3%

DD=22.3%

 

Low tier we would expect a High CA/CL count as tier 1 and 2 are CA/CL only. But look at the numbers DD have a lower count than BB/CA/CL what ever you filter for. Is there an issue of a to high BB count yes. But please dont muddy the waters by saying there is a heavy DD meta. DD count in game is fine

 

Source http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

[Prospect_b]

46% of high tier cowards fleeing when they spot an enemy. Yup, those numbers seem legit.

 

@OP: except for some idiot who didn't flee far enough, who ever claimed there is a high dd meta?

[Mothep]

good post! Totally agree with it. 

[T0byJug]

46% of high tier cowards fleeing when they spot an enemy. Yup, those numbers seem legit.

 

@OP: except for some idiot who didn't flee far enough, who ever claimed there is a high dd meta?

 

Read the threads on the forum it comes up again and again.. last one was 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/81252-cvs/

There are many threads of to many DD's in game

[Jethro_Grey]

Seems i'm getting those 23%, 'cause literally every tIX and X game i play has 4-5 DDs. 

Granted, there are always 4-5 BBs too, but i need those! They are there to farm damage, get BBQed and eat my torpedos.

Without that many BBs, the game would be much harder for my Shima, Zao, CM, DM, Gearing, Uda and Khaba or Taiho.

 

Personally, i wish they would be more BBs sometimes, but i guess i'm pretty much alone with that wish. 

 

Those stats are a bit worrying tho...

 

[T0byJug]

Seems i'm getting those 23%, 'cause literally every tIX and X game i play has 4-5 DDs. 

Granted, there are always 4-5 BBs too, but i need those! They are there to farm damage, get BBQed and eat my torpedos.

Without that many BBs, the game would be much harder for my Shima, Zao, CM, DM, Gearing, Uda and Khaba or Taiho.

 

Personally, i wish they would be more BBs sometimes, but i guess i'm pretty much alone with that wish. 

 

Those stats are a bit worrying tho...

 

 

For a DD commander High BB count is great. But it hurts CA/CL play. Personally I don't rely have an issue with the with these numbers. It just annoys me when I get this to many DDs..   When in a Torpedo Boat lots of DDs is frustrating as you struggle to rack up that damage there is always a peski Gun boat DD harassing you.. Im pretty sure if you noted sown the numbers of DDs in you high tier games for lets say 50 games you numbers would be about the same as above

[tajj7]

4-5 DDs is not great fun but it's also not that common, what's weird is you'll see several games where these is only 1-2 DDs per teamand then suddenly it lumps 10 of them into one game. 

 

Have to lol at 46% that is an average of 5-6 BBs per game, which is absurd. 

 

Personally I think WG should be looking at template MM with caps on ships, with Cruisers being the uncapped class, so something like max 3 BB cap, max 3 DD cap. that would leave 6 spaces for Cruisers and Carriers and would guarantee a minimum of 4 cruisers per side. 

[LastButterfly]

@OP: except for some idiot who didn't flee far enough, who ever claimed there is a high dd meta?

 

Well, just as you said :

Roughly 45% of the high tier population complains about DDs.

[T0byJug]

4-5 DDs is not great fun but it's also not that common, what's weird is you'll see several games where these is only 1-2 DDs per teamand then suddenly it lumps 10 of them into one game. 

 

Have to lol at 46% that is an average of 5-6 BBs per game, which is absurd. 

 

Personally I think WG should be looking at template MM with caps on ships, with Cruisers being the uncapped class, so something like max 3 BB cap, max 3 DD cap. that would leave 6 spaces for Cruisers and Carriers and would guarantee a minimum of 4 cruisers per side. 

 

So we get the Odd game with 5DD per side.. It gives Variance to the battle. If it was happening often yes it would be a problem But its not. If we do restrictions like you suggest. Matches would get very sami. I dont believe this would be good for the game. High DD match tends to mean an intense first 4 mins of match. The team that supports its DDs the best wins the DD fight and tends to win the match. I see no issue here.  About the only Check to a Good DD commander is lots of enemy DDs getting in his/her way with there BB/CL/CA supporting 

[Thracen]

46% of high tier cowards fleeing when they spot an enemy. Yup, those numbers seem legit.

 

@OP: except for some idiot who didn't flee far enough, who ever claimed there is a high dd meta?

 

When they see the enemy, I like watching the map and seeing how many turn away before an enemy is spotted, usually 1 at least.

[Jethro_Grey]

 

For a DD commander High BB count is great. But it hurts CA/CL play. Personally I don't rely have an issue with the with these numbers. It just annoys me when I get this to many DDs..   When in a Torpedo Boat lots of DDs is frustrating as you struggle to rack up that damage there is always a peski Gun boat DD harassing you.. Im pretty sure if you noted sown the numbers of DDs in you high tier games for lets say 50 games you numbers would be about the same as above

 

Speaking only for me now, but i enjoy high numbers of BBs even in my cruisers.

And i know what you mean, when you say that you don't like high numbers of DDs.

Same here, not only is there a constant threat getting spotted in the wrong moment, but there's also the issue with competition in the own team. 

It's bloody annoying when i get a perfect drop on a ship, and a friendly DD messes it up by shooting the BB which then turns or the DD yolos in and trades himself for the BB.

 

 

So we get the Odd game with 5DD per side.. It gives Variance to the battle. If it was happening often yes it would be a problem But its not. If we do restrictions like you suggest. Matches would get very sami. I dont believe this would be good for the game. High DD match tends to mean an intense first 4 mins of match. The team that supports its DDs the best wins the DD fight and tends to win the match. I see no issue here.  About the only Check to a Good DD commander is lots of enemy DDs getting in his/her way with there BB/CL/CA supporting 

 

More often then not, high numbers of DDs cause a rather slow paced and campy game.

 

Usually, the side who plays more aggresively ( with CA and BB support for their DDs) wins the game.

[Gnirf]

I see a lot of games with 0-2 DDs per side, but also sometimes 4 or so but thats more far between. I may have noticed a slight increase in CVs lately - but that is just a feeling. Playing all tiers from 2-10. Double CVs in midtiier feels like that is more often now. It would have been interesting but hard to get from other source f.e. the distribution of CVs /tier i.e. T4 0 =X% 1 X% 2 X% and see the trends in otder to spec your captains correctly. Likewise DDs CAs etc. Not just the accumulated 45 % BBs etc

[Spellfire40]

Well as a DD you have to get past the enemy DDs before you have fun and there is the expectations that you cap and defend the cap most of the times in situations were your own team haven't even found their W key yet....

 NOzoop had a rather fun vid about it....

[Donar79]

Well as a DD you have to get past the enemy DDs before you have fun and there is the expectations that you cap and defend the cap most of the times in situations were your own team haven't even found their W key yet....

 NOzoop had a rather fun vid about it....

 

Yeah saw it yesterday ...exactly what i am thinking in my most DD games. Like the vid...

 

In my experience the high BB population is really a problem...cause it deranges the balance of classes. I for my self try to not use my BBs anymore till numbers ease...

But even DD games (IJN especially) are really annoying if u have gunboats as opponents and no cruisers supporting u cause there are none....u can spot enemy DDs but no one is shooting on it ...u cap points and loose it shortly after cause...yeah u know why. Atm i am grinding kagero and i had so many games where i worked for the objectives and as support...but its not really rewarded. I should start ego mode cause if BB pro's mess up u loose anyway.

And making cruisers work is really exhausting sometimes....

But i am sure WG is already working on it

[T0byJug]

Well as a DD you have to get past the enemy DDs before you have fun and there is the expectations that you cap and defend the cap most of the times in situations were your own team haven't even found their W key yet....

 NOzoop had a rather fun vid about it....

 

LOL love it

[tajj7]

 

So we get the Odd game with 5DD per side.. It gives Variance to the battle. If it was happening often yes it would be a problem But its not. If we do restrictions like you suggest. Matches would get very sami. I dont believe this would be good for the game. High DD match tends to mean an intense first 4 mins of match. The team that supports its DDs the best wins the DD fight and tends to win the match. I see no issue here.  About the only Check to a Good DD commander is lots of enemy DDs getting in his/her way with there BB/CL/CA supporting 

 

Variety in game IMO comes from good ship balance, multiple nations and the randomness of players, so getting a better overall meta by limiting ship types would be fine IMO.

 

Eventually we'll have multiple lines of BBs, DD, CA and CL's so you'll get a huge variance now and 3 DDs on either side could already see US DDs, IJN DDs and Soviet DDs that have very different strengths, weakneses and playstyles.

 

If you have to have games with 5 DDs to get variety then something has gone very wrong with your game balance IMO and 5 DDs, like 6 BBs is not a desirable meta to have, it being different doesn't suddenly excuse that.  Thus I'd preference better gameplay over variety all day every day. 

 

 

[Loran_Battle]

Im pretty sure if you noted sown the numbers of DDs in you high tier games for lets say 50 games you numbers would be about the same as above

 

I've been doing that among other things. Though I do not play a lot of tier X games. In 15 tier X games over the past month the following amount of ships were present. Small sample size aside, it does tell the same story.

 

Ship Type	Average amount per side	percentage
BB	5.07	42.2%
CA/CL	4.03	33.6%
DD	2.57	21.4%
CV	0.4	3.3%

 

For tier 6-9 games the following (over 100 games):

 

Ship Type	Average amount per side	percentage
BB	4.96	41.3%
CA/CL	3.96	33.1%
DD	2.44	20.3%
CV	0.66	5.5%

 

These numbers are comparable to the numbers posted by Toby. The higher percentage in CVs is btw because my division mates and myself sometimes play CV.

 

In any case. I don't think my sample size will increase a lot soon. I have nearly given up on this game myself for various reasons (the BB meta is one of them though).

 

I really don't get why so many (especially certain people) on this forum claim there is an overabundance of DDs. Seeing only 1 DD a side in games is not an exemption in my experience (which I recorded, this is not "feeling").

 

Another VERY interesting thing, and something I might make a thread about if eventually I get a higher sample count is that at the moment the amount  of games where there seems to be an imbalance in tier spread among teams (as in, one team gets one mid tier ship more then the other team). This happens in a staggering 60% of my games. And in a few cases one team even gets up to 3 more mid tier ships then the other team... In my opinion this is really bad.

 

 

Anyways, I don't want to type too much, don't feel like it, since nothing will be done about this anyways by WG.

[Takru]

For the sake of added objectivity, I'd argue to diversify into Low, medium and high tier stats, T1-4, 5-7 and 8-10 repsectivley. Reason being that CVs are a lot more common up to T7 than after that.

[T0byJug]

For the sake of added objectivity, I'd argue to diversify into Low, medium and high tier stats, T1-4, 5-7 and 8-10 repsectivley. Reason being that CVs are a lot more common up to T7 than after that.

 

Reason for my number as they are is Site i used splits 1-5  and 6-10.

I calculated tier 8-10 manually from the full tier/Class stats as last time I used these stats in a thread someone said its completely different in upper tiers. they claimed 8-9-10 DD population is much higher. I was just preempting that argument.  Just out of interest DD population at tier 10 is still only 30% with BB population dropping to 38%.

Thats partly due to there being 3 Tier X BBs in game and 5 tier X DDs I would think

 

Tier 7 CV make up 5% of Tier 7 ships played

Tier 6 CV also 5% of tier 6 ships played

 

I think we may see an increase in tier 6 CV since the dropping of manual attacks on tier 4-5 CV. I kept Langley as a Commander trainer for CV and to use to complete CV missions. Loss of manual drop I moved the commander to Independence 

[Fiery_Kathy]

Personally I think WG should be looking at template MM with caps on ships, with Cruisers being the uncapped class, so something like max 3 BB cap, max 3 DD cap. that would leave 6 spaces for Cruisers and Carriers and would guarantee a minimum of 4 cruisers per side. 

 

 

This 

 

On a side note, I would like all these polarising topics to stop, it's always the same BB vs DD cr*p. We must focus on the real issues like, where the hell are my haifuri ships, my wallet is starting to think  it'll survive the summer. 

As a BB driver I rage at dds a lot, which is not more than normal since DDS are the hard counter. The truth is that both classes need eachother to make this game as fun as it is. But as the guy I quoted said, templates would really be the way to go. 

[T0byJug]

This 

 

On a side note, I would like all these polarising topics to stop, it's always the same BB vs DD cr*p. We must focus on the real issues like, where the hell are my haifuri ships, my wallet is starting to think  it'll survive the summer. 

As a BB driver I rage at dds a lot, which is not more than normal since DDS are the hard counter. The truth is that both classes need eachother to make this game as fun as it is. But as the guy I quoted said, templates would really be the way to go. 

 

Problem with templates is they force players to play ships they dont want to play or increases que times as well as making matches very Sami . I have no real issue with the amounts of ships brought to battle at the moment or the numbers of each class of ship. We do however run the risk of this game becoming world of battleships if the numbers keep increasing and no one wants that

.  WG need to find a way to make CA/CL more attractive. They are the only class that can be deleted without warning all of a sudden. A BB and almost always avoid the bulk of torps if he is paying attention. A DD player should always have an exit plan! if he douse he can often get away from an issue. CA/CL can often be deleted or lose 3/4 of his health from a single salvo from a BB early in the game without even knowing the BB is there.

 I think a good way to sort this is in the without changing the mechanic to much is with the Priority Target skill.. If you are detected and targeted you get the notification. if you are targeted by a BB there should be some sort of indicator that one or more BB has its guns pointed at you. That at least gives you a chance to avoid

[lilgoth]

I really don't get why so many (especially certain people) on this forum claim there is an overabundance of DDs. Seeing only 1 DD a side in games is not an exemption in my experience (which I recorded, this is not "feeling").

 

 

because an overabundance of players here are BB captains that whine about the counter to their class ? ? 

 

remember, Scissors thinks Rock is OP, but thinks Paper is well balanced ;) 

[Kartoffelmos]

For the sake of added objectivity, I'd argue to diversify into Low, medium and high tier stats, T1-4, 5-7 and 8-10 repsectivley. Reason being that CVs are a lot more common up to T7 than after that.

 

Having finally mastered the dark sorcery that is Microsoft Excel, I can do even better:

 

	Class distribution by battles - EU server: 20.05 - 27.05
Class/Tier	Tier 3	Tier 4	Tier 5	Tier 6	Tier 7	Tier 8	Tier 9	Tier 10
BB	66565	107891	184011	223430	284833	334053	100479	93215
CA/CL	68739	88348	180317	199979	163164	138944	58246	59994
DD	24215	45194	86945	64184	89631	68447	52580	60643
CV	0	29898	47031	34027	36152	18343	10699	5576
Total	159519	271331	498304	521620	573780	559787	222004	219428

 

	Class distribution by battles - EU server: 20.05 - 27.05
Class/Tier	Tier 3	Tier 4	Tier 5	Tier 6	Tier 7	Tier 8	Tier 9	Tier 10
BB	41,7 %	39,8 %	36,9 %	42,8 %	49,6 %	59,7 %	45,3 %	42,5 %
CA/CL	43,1 %	32,6 %	36,2 %	38,3 %	28,4 %	24,8 %	26,2 %	27,3 %
DD	15,2 %	16,7 %	17,4 %	12,3 %	15,6 %	12,2 %	23,7 %	27,6 %
CV	0,0 %	11,0 %	9,4 %	6,5 %	6,3 %	3,3 %	4,8 %	2,5 %
Total	100,0 %	100,0 %	100,0 %	100,0 %	100,0 %	100,0 %	100,0 %	100,0 %

 

Last time I did this, I did it semi-manually, but now I can just copy-paste the stats from maplesyrup and let Excel do the rest. Sadly, the latest stats are not available (author is on vacation?), but I think the trend is clearly visible.

 

Stats from 15.04 - 22.04:

 

 

[Capra76]

60% of T8 are BB are the RN will arrive in a few weeks time, god help us.

[Cosseria]

60% of T8 are BB are the RN will arrive in a few weeks time, god help us.

 

I'm confident most BBabies will then quit the German line and grind the British one, so maybe we won't get past 65-70%.

It could then be the right time to get back to Fletcher and Kagero if only those new BBs hadn't got a radar. Don't count me in for DD play above T 7 when that line goes live.