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mtm78

I so hope Foch is coming to WoWs, we need CC's like him around!

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I heard he might stop doing tanks stuff which is sad, he was the best tank reviewer around. Maybe he can come join flamu as one of the two most honest ship reviewers :hiding: 


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Yet another EU-thing exploding in their face (and such a pity, since the stitches from the exploding landmine called "Santa Convoy" were finally removed this week... Not even capable of keeping a clean face for a given length of time... tsktsktsk)

 

Anyway, staff is rather quiet it seems, maybe they're finding a suitable cardboard box to pack Ph3lans desk ornaments over the weekend, if it's true what he did.


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Enough screenshots are floating around of what was said to Foch if he didn't remove his video :red_button:

 

I mean, yeah remove CC status wouldn't surprise me, as I seem to remember Foch saying earlier he had gotten into discussion about his 'style' before  ( and even then, remove it for a certain period or something, as he surely is a reviewer which is valued by community and he brings them lots of free publicity ). But threatening to use a copyright strike on a negative review if it weren't removed... :facepalm:

 

Sad. 


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. But threatening to use a copyright strike on a negative review if it weren't removed... :facepalm:

 

Sad. 

 

are you kidding? did they actually do this?!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

2evvj6m.png

 

Shamelessly stolen from the WoT thread. Original pictures are also to be found there, showing the entire discord discussion. The post from Nijal is in the thread on the WoT forums. 

 

edit: link to WoT thread for those interested who don't have it already -> http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/629174-wg-going-batshit-over-ccs/#topmost

 

I had not visited WoT forums in a LONG time... guess they did screw up nicely this time :facepalm:

Edited by mtm78

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Posted (edited) · Report post

2evvj6m.png

 

Shamelessly stolen from the WoT thread. Original pictures are also to be found there, showing the entire discord discussion. The post from Nijal is in the thread on the WoT forums. 

 

edit: link to WoT thread for those interested who don't have it already -> http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/629174-wg-going-batshit-over-ccs/#topmost

 

I had not visited WoT forums in a LONG time... guess they did screw up nicely this time :facepalm:

 

*sigh*.

Are there ANY F2P MOBA publishers out there who aren't bellybutton sniffing ballsack chuggin mouthbreathing pants pissing assholes?

I thought it was just gaijin at first but... f*ck man...

I regret buying the Scharnhorst now...

Edited by txtspeak

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Jim Sterling is already on it, which is good. That will give the entire thing a bit more exposure.

 

Edited

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate content

Edited by VMX

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txtspeak you're overdoing it. 

 

Also, this isn't dev stuff, this is ( community ) management 'stuff'. 

 

What imho should be done is a personal apology to Foch for the threat, and some resolution about why it was made. I don't think Foch's CC status is easilly restored, I mean I can understand WG not liking the content to the point where they want to exclude him from the CC program ( original Foch video which was removed from YT is hosted on a facebook page and linked in that WoT thread, it was rather 'ranty' even for Foch standards ). Though I rather they just warn him with a temp exclusion instead of straight up booting him over it. 

 

And I don't think a company should use threats of copyright infringement to censor content, unless there is an actual copyright issue. This wasn't about that, YT has a libel / slander ect. handling program as well, if anything WG should have threatened with that. 

 

 


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txtspeak you're overdoing it. 

 

Also, this isn't dev stuff, this is ( community ) management 'stuff'. 

 

 

Editing my post


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Maybe he can come join flamu...

 

:fishpalm:

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:fishpalm:

 

Well flamu can call a ship 'terrible' in a review in quite a blunt way, which is what people also enjoy about Foch :trollface:

 

It's not for everyone, not saying you should like it :)


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Jim Sterling is already on it, which is good. That will give the entire thing a bit more exposure.

 

THISGONBGUD.gif

Considering he also asked for more dirt next monday is going to be interesting indeed.


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Yup I actually subscribed to his channel just to not miss the video :honoring: Jingles has picked it up as well btw, it's linked in the main thread. I actually really respect Jingles for what he wrote, I wasn't sure he would stand up for justice in the way displayed :hiding: 


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I heard he might stop doing tanks stuff which is sad, he was the best tank reviewer around. Maybe he can come join flamu as one of the two most honest ship reviewers :hiding: 

 

I have a more 'honest' language that SirFoch, perhaps I would be a better choice:hiding::trollface:


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I believe you, please link to your channel I will add it to the opening post right away :honoring: 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

Oh dear, we're getting a Wargaming Jimquisition episode!

 

This is going to be gold. Wargaming better prepare a couple premium fire extinguishers and medipacks for that one.

 

Also, I'm mildly surprised something like this happened. Jingles is also prodding that particular hornets nest about the threatened copyright strike and if what I'm reading in this thread is true (which it seems, but I'm not going to fact check as I have next to none experience with the WoT community!), unless Wargaming can make a really, really convincing statement Jingles has hinted that he'd quit as community contributor if the copyright takedown threat was an actual thing here. And although I'm not the biggest Jingles fan around by a long shot (really only watch his WoT videos and I suppose I can only enjoy them because I have no clue about WoT so I don't know what he gets wrong ... because oh my I can't watch his WoWs videos, too many mistakes and a lack of understanding of game mechanics, etc.) I don't doubt he is a big publicity factor for Wargaming (he got me interested in WoWs, so thanks for that Jingles!) and even a nice quiet divorce would be a blow to Wargaming's publicity.

 

Someone done goofed hella big here.

 

 

edit://

Wow, even iChase made a response video here and is actually saying WG screwed up hard with their conduct (from a PR perspective that is, he had a couple other things to say about copyright, but I suppose that's about as strong a WG critical response we can possibly expect from him).

 

Welp, WG is either going to have to be preparing a big apology or they might end up having lots of CC spots to fill in the coming days.

 

With a bit of luck this is going to snowball up the WG management and start a couple changes with how WG handles their communities for the better. Or it could just end up getting worse if WG decides to stomp their feet instead, I give it about 50/50 ...

Edited by Aotearas

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WG should really hire either a better law department or better PR department. Surely they must know that they have no legal basis on copyright strikes against CCs or fellas that just like to make WoWs videos. I do hope that CCs stand up against this despite WG threatening to cut them out for not showing complete obedience. Sure any company can choose their partners, but abusing YouTube's broken copyright system is just stupid.

 

Maybe even more stupid than clearly admitting that they're willing to abuse that system as Ph3lan has done.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

WG should really hire either a better law department or better PR department. Surely they must know that they have no legal basis on copyright strikes against CCs or fellas that just like to make WoWs videos. I do hope that CCs stand up against this despite WG threatening to cut them out for not showing complete obedience. Sure any company can choose their partners, but abusing YouTube's broken copyright system is just stupid.

 

Maybe even more stupid than clearly admitting that they're willing to abuse that system as Ph3lan has done.

 

The legal action of a copyright strike is not entirely baseless. Technically they could argue that Foch was using copyrighted material as a basis to badmouth the company and it would probably come down to how the judge rules on it if this were to be brought to court. The defining question would be if the use of the copyrighted material is in direct correlation with the badmouthing, i.e.: integral (which I would assume it would, since he's specifically talking about this tank to base his tangent on in the context of that video). The other question would be if his conduct constituted slander or insults, which I can't say since I never watched the video, but assuming from what I read, the used language was rather heated. This is probably one of the very few cases in which this could actually hold up in court, so the legality of that move is actually not that questionable.

 

The PR action however has been a complete mess. Regardless of the possible viability of a copyright strike in this specific case, threatening someone with it is still a dickmove and reeks of trying to suppress unwelcome opinions rather than police the tone of the content. WG already had the appropriate action of removing Foch from the contributer program, removing the video entirely is unnecessary.

Edited by Aotearas

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WG is the single worst company for pr that I have ever encountered. Luckily WoWS is good enough to make up for it. So far anyway


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The legal action of a copyright strike is not entirely baseless. Technically they could argue that Foch was using copyrighted material as a basis to badmouth the company and it would probably come down to how the judge rules on it if this were to be brought to court. The defining question would be if the use of the copyrighted material is in direct correlation with the badmouthing, i.e.: integral (which I would assume it would, since he's specifically talking about this tank to base his tangent on in the context of that video). The other question would be if his conduct constituted slander or insults, which I can't say since I never watched the video, but assuming from what I read, the used language was rather heated. This is probably one of the very few cases in which this could actually hold up in court, so the legality of that move is actually not that questionable.

 

  Criticizing copyrighted material, is in no way infringing copyright, there are several cases in pretty much every court imaginable (people unable to handle criticism aren't all that uncommon), protecting such content creators. Material wasn't stolen or used as is, without adding anything to it. Courts would dismiss such pettiness, YouTube's automated takedown system wouldn't. Making a critical video isn't breaking the law, trying to abuse automated system to suppress criticism is.

 

  And without any knowledge of actual slander laws outside of my own country, I find it hard to believe that when stating a personal opinion, even if it is strongly worded, counts as slander. I haven't either seen the video, but if SirFoch didn't present his opinions as truth backed by faked evidence - slander accusations go out of the window.

 

  There is a Youtuber called Leonard French, who has done several videos, where he breaks down copyright cases, mostly revolving around YouTube's broken system and copyrights. Given all previous cases that he has gone through - I highly doubt that WG could get these "slander"-accusations anywhere near actual courtroom.

 

  All this has just been a really, really stupid way to try suppress one guy's opinion and show of force to other CCs, reminding them to stay in line. Sadly on personal level there is very little one can do about this, outside of stopping to throw money at the company. I for one won't give a cent to them before they've publicly apologized their scumbaggery (and fully acknowledging that this has absolutely no effect on anything).


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The other question would be if his conduct constituted slander or insults, which I can't say since I never watched the video, but assuming from what I read, the used language was rather heated.

 

I can't repeat what he said literally, but the original video was rehosted on a facebook page and linked in the thread on the WoT forum. WG might have removed those links though, and I will not post the url's because I don't want to break any forum rules and have my posting ability removed for a year :hiding: 

 

A summary off the post would be :

 

"insult WG, and insult Chrysler tank, insult insult insult, repeat repeat repeat, and this is why : no frontal weakspot -> want to pen, shoot gold. Gun is bad. < 200 pen with regular ammo -> want to pen stuff, shoot gold. Game is going down the drain ( in typical Foch wording which we can't use on forum ) because dev's pushing for premium ammo / premium tank / premium account use to get better results ( tank would be OP when going full prem ammo ). So insult WG, insult dev's, and insult 'insert tank name'  some more." 

 

The fact that I'm reluctant to link to the saved video, or to write down exactly what he said, should be a pretty good indication that it was even for a Foch video, pretty over the top. Not the content, heck that's about as on par as I guess it can get. But the message was brought in an over the top way for a CC. But the threat off a copyright infringement claim.... ow boy you dun goofed up gud :facepalm: 

 

 

 

 


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  Criticizing copyrighted material, is in no way infringing copyright, there are several cases in pretty much every court imaginable (people unable to handle criticism aren't all that uncommon), protecting such content creators. Material wasn't stolen or used as is, without adding anything to it. Courts would dismiss such pettiness, YouTube's automated takedown system wouldn't. Making a critical video isn't breaking the law, trying to abuse automated system to suppress criticism is.

 

  And without any knowledge of actual slander laws outside of my own country, I find it hard to believe that when stating a personal opinion, even if it is strongly worded, counts as slander. I haven't either seen the video, but if SirFoch didn't present his opinions as truth backed by faked evidence - slander accusations go out of the window.

 

  There is a Youtuber called Leonard French, who has done several videos, where he breaks down copyright cases, mostly revolving around YouTube's broken system and copyrights. Given all previous cases that he has gone through - I highly doubt that WG could get these "slander"-accusations anywhere near actual courtroom.

 

  All this has just been a really, really stupid way to try suppress one guy's opinion and show of force to other CCs, reminding them to stay in line. Sadly on personal level there is very little one can do about this, outside of stopping to throw money at the company. I for one won't give a cent to them before they've publicly apologized their scumbaggery (and fully acknowledging that this has absolutely no effect on anything).

 

That is correct, but I'm pretty sure you can't claim fair use if the majority of the content is insults, etc.. Might not count for slander depending on the exact wording but at least where I live, insults are punishable by law too (just very rarely taken to court for mostly economic reasons, duh). And if the fair use claim doesn't hold water in light of the video content/conduct, then de facto the copyright claim goes through, or so I'd think it would work out ...

 

Anyhow, the point I'm making is the actual threat of a copyright takedown isn't outlandish from a legal point of view as far as I understand the matter (which admittedly isn't much). It's still a disastrous PR move though and an unjustified escalation since WG already dropped him from the CC program as a result ... but this IS WG and they haven't exactly been having a charming track record for marketing.


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That is correct, but I'm pretty sure you can't claim fair use if the majority of the content is insults, etc..

 

  As long as you are presenting them as your personal opinion, yes - you can count it as fair use. Silly as it may sound that is the case. There is a ton of highly critical and outright insulting reviews of movies, books, games etc. All this is protected by the law. Book/movie critics have been throughout ages a particularly bloodthirsty people and they've been sued numerous times in early days and thus later on became protected by law. Personal insults have always been common as long as they've been presented in context. Being harsh on video depicting the thing you're shredding to pieces is a rather common example of this. Let's take this Jim Sterling fella as an example, he'll shred WG to pieces, (in his coming video) saving no insults as he does so. He has been sued and threatened multiple times and always has law prevailed.

 

It's still a disastrous PR move though and an unjustified escalation since WG already dropped him from the CC program as a result ... but this IS WG and they haven't exactly been having a charming track record for marketing.

 

This we agree on. Streisand effect in is the motion.


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WG is the single worst company for pr that I have ever encountered. Luckily WoWS is good enough to make up for it. So far anyway

 

I see you've not played WT...

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

 

The fact that I'm reluctant to link to the saved video,

 

 

 

How about we embed another video like this:

 

 

with no visible description. The not visible description may or may not contain addition links. Additional links may lead to any internet address. :trollface:

 

 

 

And I my opinion he was way to gentle with them and I dont see any direct insult, only general profanity in a adverbial way to emphasise a point - so nothing new. I watch even his vids for entertainment, although I would NEVER play that p2w game (not related due to the recent incident but dating WAY FURTHER back). Its bad enough already I stick around this pile of p2w shít instead of just telling them where to stick it an leave. Call it vaccination as I despise p2w and WG now to a degree, I wouldnt even pirate  their Orion game.

 

But back to the topic at hand: The 2nd reason I watch tanks stuff is to be informed about the enemy in one of their other general projects. Yeah I know its a different studio but the trend with flat out better premium isnt solely relegated to WoT.

 

 

I regret buying the Scharnhorst now...

 

 

No resources to the enemy, burn them (aka your wallet) if you have to.

 

If you want to "repent your cimes"  ( :hiding::trollface::P) spread the massage around. :red_button:

Edited by havaduck

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