Jump to content
cro_pwr

Nurnberg

30 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
2,735 posts
10,310 battles

Is there anyone that actually thinks Nurnberg is good?
I mean, I don't usually complain about lost of ships being UP, but Nurnberg is just bad. Its like putting all the weaknesses of the ship into a one pile. I wasn't really that much fascinated with the rest of german cruiser line so far, but this thing is just painful to play.
You have no armor. Everything deals massive damage to you.
Your citadel is bigger then ship itself.

Your HE deals no damage, and fire chance is so abysmal that relying on burning something down is like relying on scoring the jackpot on lottery to survive another month.

Your AP deals SOME damage, IF whatever you are shooting isn't even slightly angled. And its good only to spam at the superstructure, since citadeling anything with those arcs is again next to impossible.
Your AA is nothing to write home about.
 

So whats the point of this ship except to frustrate the players that are trying to play her?
And a big question, does it even get a bit better with Yorck/Hipper, or I need to wait till the Hindenburg to finally get a playable cruiser?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,678 posts
13,636 battles

I actually think she holds a good spot in T6 compared to her peers but we all know T6 MM and she sure suffers a lot from being put against T8 enemies. But the ship itself is fine.

 

Yorck is a bit special as you have to rely on HE shells (that actually do damage and cause fires) but she is a very compact ship with good armor for a T7 cruiser. She is completely different from her CL predecessors though.

Hipper is one of my overall favourite ships. A mulit-purpose cruiser, decent in just about everything. Her greatest (or only?) strength is having no particular weakness.

Roon: Nürnberg on steroids. Good concealment. Has access to Hindenburg guns (unmodified: 10 seconds reload)

Hindenburg: Jack of all trades, master of none. Great firestarter. Again, no particular strength but no severe weakness either.

 

There are several threads about the line and they all end up quite controversial. I think the whole line is worth playing, others consider it utter garbage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
805 posts
4,465 battles

I liked it. Fired mostly AP, only HE on occasion, and it did do damage. No citadels on cruisers at long range, no, but what do you expect from 150mm guns. You'll do meaty volleys on BBs, especially US BBs, even at mid-long range if you hit their upper belt when flat and their superstructure when they're angled. It has a big citadel and little armour, yes, much like every other CL in the game! Use the maneuverability, vary your heading and your speed and hold fire to stealth up if you need to. Firing your guns constantly and remaining spotted all battle isn't necessarily the way to go in fragile ships.

 

It does not get better with the Yorck, can't say I enjoyed that. It's a huge variance from the rest of the line as well, being primarily an HE spammer (AP is such low velocity that it's useless except at close range or against grounded targets). Hipper I can't comment on because I've unlocked it but not played it yet. I heard 'meh' things about it from my friend while he was playing it though. Good at AA if specced for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,735 posts
10,310 battles

I actually think she holds a good spot in T6 compared to her peers but we all know T6 MM and she sure suffers a lot from being put against T8 enemies. But the ship itself is fine.

 

I've played all the t6 cruisers bar the French one (at t5 atm), and Nurnberg is by far the weakest one. Cleveland is a well armored flamethrower with good AP. Budy is long range railgun spammer that doesn't deal that much damage with HE, but starts 4 fires with 2 shells. Aoba is extremely good little t6 cruiser (playing her now together with Nurnberg) that is extremely tanky for its tier, and has those nuclear HE shells that will deal easy 4-5k damage salvos against BBs and set fire with basicly every salvo. Leander at least have access to smoke to pump out that AP volleys. Nurnberg has none of it. Relies completely on enemy sailing full broadside to you 10km away, while not shooting at you since you get blown out of water as soon as someone looks funny at your general direction. You would even think she is good DD hunter, but when your shells deal 26 damage to DDs then you notice that even when facing DDs other t6 cruisers work a lot better.

 

@rvfharrier: I know how to play cruisers, I know when to shoot and how to maneuver, but when you do all of that combined, you finished the game with little to no impact since your guns are so lacking that they cannot suffice for the opportunist type of gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
5,214 posts
24,008 battles

I liked Konigsberg a lot, but Nurnberg is just exactly the same uptiered  Konigsberg with a worse MM, often tier 8. I wonder what they do to the Soviet premium Nurnberg to make it competitive...

York was OK, a bit unlike GE cruisers, Hipper and Roon also liked them a lot, but I dont think I ll get Hindenburg in the current meta.

The whole GE line, because of bad HE and fire chance but good AP is better as a cruiser-hunting line, but the current meta is at least 5 BBs per team (before Hood launch), and less cruisers.

Edited by 22cm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
8,979 posts
7,359 battles

I liked Konigsberg a lot, but Nurnberg is just exactly the same uptiered  Konigsberg with a worse MM, often tier 8. I wonder what they do to the Soviet premium Nurnberg to make it competitive...

York was OK, a bit unlike GE cruisers, Hipper and Roon also liked them a lot, but I dont think I ll get Hindenburg in the current meta.

The whole GE line, because of bad HE and fire chance but good AP is better as a cruiser-hunting line, but the current meta is at least 5 BBs per team (before Hood launch), and less cruisers.

 

On the contrary, I find Hindenburg very good at dealing with the BB meta.

 

Also I played all the (silver) t6 cruisers, and Nürnberg was quite fun for me. The only one I didn't like was La Galissonnière.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BONI]
Players
1,257 posts
12,064 battles

It was okay, I guess. It's the MAC-10 of its tier, a real bullet-hose but you need to get close to use that low-caliber AP properly. Long-range, stick with the bad HE and hope for fires. The turret arrangement means you can run away and still shoot most guns. Which works out better than Kirov, less likely to get citted despite similarly awful armor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,562 posts
18,127 battles

Always felt it was the weakest of all tier 6 cruisers. Now there's another candidate (the French Galissonniere), but it's hard to think it will be worse then the German cruiser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
805 posts
4,465 battles

@rvfharrier: I know how to play cruisers, I know when to shoot and how to maneuver, but when you do all of that combined, you finished the game with little to no impact since your guns are so lacking that they cannot suffice for the opportunist type of gameplay.

 

My experience was different, I found the thing to be a DPM monster which was capable of having a big impact. Those nine guns firing every 6 seconds, even faster after a bit of damage with AR, can quickly melt whatever you're shooting at. I find it especially puzzling you claim it can't kill DDs... with its arcs, its RoF and that sweet sweet German hydro it's capable of shredding DDs to pieces.

 

It's fragile, yes. It will get deleted in a bloody mess if you put yourself in a position to be deleted, yes. Not much different from any other CL (or CA for that matter) in the game. So do your best to avoid putting yourself in that position! I'll grant that it's harder to play than the other tier 6 cruisers, but that doesn't make it a bad ship when it has positives to make up for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[72]
Beta Tester
450 posts
10,062 battles

I liked the Nurnberg. so much so i used it in a previous season of ranked. I just kited away and used AP as much as i could. i made the HE workable by using DE on the captain. It works best by luring someone over extended to chase you. Its agile so you should be able to dodge most of the incoming fire, and with most of your fire power at the rear you should out DPM your persuer. its even better if they get frustrated and try and turn, because the AP works wonders then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,735 posts
10,310 battles

 

My experience was different, I found the thing to be a DPM monster which was capable of having a big impact. Those nine guns firing every 6 seconds, even faster after a bit of damage with AR, can quickly melt whatever you're shooting at. I find it especially puzzling you claim it can't kill DDs... with its arcs, its RoF and that sweet sweet German hydro it's capable of shredding DDs to pieces.

 

It's fragile, yes. It will get deleted in a bloody mess if you put yourself in a position to be deleted, yes. Not much different from any other CL (or CA for that matter) in the game. So do your best to avoid putting yourself in that position! I'll grant that it's harder to play than the other tier 6 cruisers, but that doesn't make it a bad ship when it has positives to make up for it.

 

It can kill DDs. But I feel that every other t6 cruiser (except for leander) can do a better job at killing them. Cleveland / Buddy have the same volume of fire, but their shells simply do a lot more damage to DDs then Nurnberg does. And especially Buddy that has railguns, and you can hit DDs even from something like 14km away. I mean, yea, if DD is dumb enough to sail 4k away from you full broadside in a straight line you will delete him. But every other cruiser will do so...

 

And no, you won't get deleted in every other cruiser. Cleveland and Aoba are extremely tanky for their tier. And even Buddy is an oddity in RU CL line, that has quite good armor, and quite small citadel, so she doesn't get blown out of the water as easy as all of the other RU cruisers (except for Moskva ofc).

And for quickly melting targets you managed to surprise, I'll once again rather pick Aoba to score easy 10k salvo on broadside cruiser, or Buddy/Cleveland for the sheer volume of great AP OR great HE when they are angled, in comparison to bad HE and unrealiable AP that Nurnberg has...

 

IDK, the best game I had so far was when all the enemies just ignored me and sailed broadside to me so I could rack up my damage (ended up with ~110k damage), while I can easily do 100k damage in Aoba/Cleveland even when enemies are aware of me, and angled because I can simply burn them down with their insane HE (insane for their tier ofc).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
805 posts
4,465 battles

 

It can kill DDs. But I feel that every other t6 cruiser (except for leander) can do a better job at killing them. Cleveland / Buddy have the same volume of fire, but their shells simply do a lot more damage to DDs then Nurnberg does. And especially Buddy that has railguns, and you can hit DDs even from something like 14km away. I mean, yea, if DD is dumb enough to sail 4k away from you full broadside in a straight line you will delete him. But every other cruiser will do so...

 

And no, you won't get deleted in every other cruiser. Cleveland and Aoba are extremely tanky for their tier. And even Buddy is an oddity in RU CL line, that has quite good armor, and quite small citadel, so she doesn't get blown out of the water as easy as all of the other RU cruisers (except for Moskva ofc).

And for quickly melting targets you managed to surprise, I'll once again rather pick Aoba to score easy 10k salvo on broadside cruiser, or Buddy/Cleveland for the sheer volume of great AP OR great HE when they are angled, in comparison to bad HE and unrealiable AP that Nurnberg has...

 

IDK, the best game I had so far was when all the enemies just ignored me and sailed broadside to me so I could rack up my damage (ended up with ~110k damage), while I can easily do 100k damage in Aoba/Cleveland even when enemies are aware of me, and angled because I can simply burn them down with their insane HE (insane for their tier ofc).

 

My statement was that any cruiser will get deleted if you put it in a position where it can be deleted, in that sense the Nurnberg is no different. Nurnberg may be a bit squishier, but if you play to your ship's weakness then of course it will seem weak. If you're getting deleted regularly in your Nurnberg then you're positioning yourself poorly or you're picking the wrong moments to reveal yourself. As for unreliable AP, I'm afraid I simply can't agree. In my experience is was pretty reliable.

 

There are no bad T6 cruisers, I'm not going to hate on any of them. Aoba was the one I performed the worst in, it didn't really sync with my play style and I found I couldn't make it work as well as the others but it wasn't a bad ship. I much prefer the high velocity AP of the Nurnberg to the powerful HE of the Aoba. Nine accurate fast firing guns gives me much more of a feeling of control over six slow firing ones. It takes time to get your damage in because you're not getting ticking damage from fires, but that's only a problem if you die early. Cleveland was simply OP. Budyonny I've only played two matches in but also feels borderline OP already, even stock. Yet to make my way up the French line. Nurnberg was refreshingly challenging, but far from unrewarding and certainly not a bad ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
341 posts
6,911 battles

I quite like it. I stick with the B hull for extra torpedo tubes, and yes that AP can do a lot of damage in the right situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
171 posts
4,885 battles

I didn't even bother grinding her as she seemed too similar to the Konigsberg. Same ship, 1 tier higher, not for me!

 

However I picked here up recently and I am doing ok with her. Maybe playing T8+ cruiser matches is the necessary preparation to play Nurnberg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,735 posts
10,310 battles

 

My statement was that any cruiser will get deleted if you put it in a position where it can be deleted, in that sense the Nurnberg is no different. Nurnberg may be a bit squishier, but if you play to your ship's weakness then of course it will seem weak. If you're getting deleted regularly in your Nurnberg then you're positioning yourself poorly or you're picking the wrong moments to reveal yourself.

 

Getting citadeled from 15km away by a shell that barely scratched your pain is hardly playing to your ships weakness. And that what I'm talking about. As I said, I know how to play cruisers, I don't need "Cruiser 101", but as I've played all t6 cruisers bar French ones, I feel like Nurnberg is simply miles away from anything else (not counting in Leander since she has a specific gameplay, but atleast has smoke and heal).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
805 posts
4,465 battles

How often does that really happen though? It'll happen, sure. You'll eat a funky citadel every now and again no matter what ship you play. I was in my Montana the other day and a North Carolina about 14km away citadelled me through my front turret barbette. Chalk it up as bad luck and carry on. As I said, if that happens regularly then perhaps you need to look at what you're doing rather than immediately concluding that the ship is a turd and heading to the forums.

 

You keep saying that you know how to play cruisers. I'm not saying you don't, but that doesn't mean there aren't individual cruisers that you could be playing better. Other people have made the Nurnberg work for them and your ship isn't any different to anyone else's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,735 posts
10,310 battles

How often does that really happen though? It'll happen, sure. You'll eat a funky citadel every now and again no matter what ship you play. I was in my Montana the other day and a North Carolina about 14km away citadelled me through my front turret barbette. Chalk it up as bad luck and carry on. As I said, if that happens regularly then perhaps you need to look at what you're doing rather than immediately concluding that the ship is a turd and heading to the forums.

 

You keep saying that you know how to play cruisers. I'm not saying you don't, but that doesn't mean there aren't individual cruisers that you could be playing better. Other people have made the Nurnberg work for them and your ship isn't any different to anyone else's.

 

Well, my point is that its happening MORE when I'm in Nurnberg then when I'm in other t6 cruisers. It happened a lot while playing some russian cruisers (paper ships, aka Chapayev), and it happens in Nurnberg. In some cruisers (like russian ones) I can handle a random citadel here and there because thats offset with great guns. Nurnberg doesn't have great guns...

 

And maybe we have a bit different view of what "working out" means. Since in my book doing 20k damage on average isn't really good. :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
805 posts
4,465 battles

Are you talking about average damage for the server? 24k average damage, compared to 27k for the Aoba and 29k for the Cleveland. Is 26k average damage for the whole server where you draw the line between a good ship and a bad ship? A bit arbitrary if you ask me! Also doesn't surprise me that it's the poorest performing cruiser. As I said, I think it's probably the hardest one to play. That doesn't make it bad though.

 

High velocity shells, good AP damage, quick reload, good stealth, decent maneuverability, best hydro in its tier, good AA if specced, great range, decent torps. Armour is terrible, yes, and its HE is poor but a truly bad ship has negatives which either outweigh or totally swamp its positive traits (if it has them). Those ships do exist in the game, but Nurnberg is not such a ship.

Edited by rvfharrier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,735 posts
10,310 battles

I'm talking about the guys that pointed out it works out for them. I can make her work, but it feels like too big of a hassle compared to the other cruisers.
And please stop with "high velocity shells". She has high INITIAL velocity, and a huge air drag that makes her shells float in the air for 10 minutes as soon as they fly more then 8km away from your ship...

 

just did some testing with 4 cruisers I currently have in port (all the numbers are from HE shells since Aoba and Nurnberg have same velocity, but Cleveland has even faster AP shells)

So when firing on a target 14km away from you, your shells need
Aoba - 8.84s

Nurnberg - 9.4s

Cleveland - 11s

Budyony - 8.4 s

 

to land. So where are those high velocity shells? She has faster shells only compared to Cleveland that is known for the floaty arcs and lazy shells, and Nurnberg feels like a Clevelands child when comparing shells.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[72]
Beta Tester
450 posts
10,062 battles

Back to your original point, Yes i liked the Nurnberg. I didnt have a problem with the Yorck, even though its a completely different ship. I liked the Hipper, and i have bought Eugen. I had a blast in the Roon, but its just a massive Nurnberg. Kite away, punish broadsides with AP and spec DE to make HE usable. Hindenburg is an all round decent cruiser.

 

Ask yourself if you want decent, if not outstanding cruisers. The KM cruiser line is really a jack of all trade master of none type of line. I enjoy the utilitarian type of ships they are. The only time i have felt uncomfortable in a KM cruiser is trying to defend caps from DDs in the Roon, as the turret placement made engaging aggressive DDs difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
5,214 posts
24,008 battles

Back to your original point, Yes i liked the Nurnberg.

...The only time i have felt uncomfortable in a KM cruiser is trying to defend caps from DDs in the Roon, as the turret placemetnt made engaging aggressive DDs difficult.

It has the same turret placement as Nurnberg though...:hiding:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,735 posts
10,310 battles

 

Ask yourself if you want decent, if not outstanding cruisers. The KM cruiser line is really a jack of all trade master of none type of line. I enjoy the utilitarian type of ships they are. The only time i have felt uncomfortable in a KM cruiser is trying to defend caps from DDs in the Roon, as the turret placement made engaging aggressive DDs difficult.

 

I've grinded Moskva and Des Moines allready, currently playing Edinburgh and only things I never grinded was IJN and KM cruisers (I had ARP Myokos and Takao if I wanted to play IJN so I wasn't in much of a hurry to go trough that line). So since I grinded most of the ships I wanted, I started playing IJN/KM cruisers, and while I'm having a blast in IJN cruisers (they are borderline OP at some tiers), Nurnberg really felt like a bad ship to me.

Tl;dr: I will grind KM cruiser line since there's nothing else left, but if I have to play 4 more Nurnbergs to get to the Hindy (I like Hindy), that will be a huge pain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[72]
Beta Tester
450 posts
10,062 battles

It has the same turret placement as Nurnberg though...:hiding:

 

But the Nurnberg is more manoeuvrable and a higher rate of fire. i didn't mind getting stuck in with the Nurnberg. i felt much more comfortable in the Roon by keeping my distance. The Roon is quite a long ship, and i always feared being caught mid turn by Torps.
Edited by mikelight1805

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×