Team (doesn't) work

[dasCKD]

Bottleship Report #004 - The teamwork sucks, and the game isn't helping.

Before you ask, this isn't a rage thread provoked by a series of bad games. Since the changes made to tier 4 and 5 carriers as well as the breaking of the carrier control system beyond what it was before, I have been at a constant level of simmering rage that one day threatens to simmer its way through my skull. Crawling out from the smoldering hole in my head, it will claw its way to the closest piece of machinery, a primal force let loose upon the world. It will then rise up, a horrific chimera of the machinery of modern society and fated to destroy it. The rage personification shall rise up into the atmosphere, forming a second red moon. As the inhabitants of earth gathers around the eldritch nest, the rage and the machinery of war shall be melded into the core that only grows more resentful and more massive. Then, when the day of the prophesy dawns the egg will - I - umm...

 

Where was I?

 

Ah yes, teamwork.

 

Teams & Divisions

One of the long running point of contentions is the power that even a single division can wield. A division of players who are, alone, 60% WR players can easily become 70 - 80% WR players just by divisioning up. This goes far beyond guaranteeing good players on the team, as anyone who has any experience in even the lowest knows the value of always on communication. A division of players isn't just a collection of 3 players. It's three players sharing map awareness, the informative regarding appearing threats, and targeting information so that it'll be easier to remove the most important targets. That alone is far from anything a random collection of players could match. A team could have all of the tools that they need to leverage a victory, but it's only through the application of a division that a team could really maneuver those ships into position the exact moment that they are most needed. This advantage is so massive that some prominent members of the community have in fact suggested that divisions should be removed entirely or have the impact of divisions reduced by reducing the number of members.

 

I might not make many friends with my assertion here, but I believe that the advantages of the division over solo players should be lessened. Whilst divisioning up is fine for those of us who can secure divisions with regularity, it can't be too fun for those who are facing down unicum divisions without any tools on their side to fight back. To be clear, I do not think the division system should be changed. Instead, I believe that the solo player experience should be improved in such a way that the advantages of a division won't be as glaring as it is now. This will also be beneficial in ranked battles, where voice communication is simply unavailable. This thread details all of the improvements that I think should be made to the team interface in order to better facilitate teamwork and cooperation, even when a division doesn't exist.

 

Spotting

 With the implementation of situational awareness across all captains, all ships are now aware of when they are spotted. When in a division, it's trivial to inform a division mate when you are being spotted. When you aren't in a division however, the spotting mechanics are far more complicated. You have to go out of the game commands, type down the fact that you are spotted, and then go back to the game commands. Your team mates then need to see you message, take your handle, compare it to the team list to find your ship, then look over to the minimap to correspond the ship class. If there are two ships of the same type on your team, it makes matters even more confusing. It's little wonder most players don't bother going through any of those steps, especially since ships that usually need to inform others that they are spotted generally need the information conveyed immediately.

 

A system that shares information to the entire team should be simple to put into place. You can see the ship health of your team mates, your spotting information is just as important. The spotted lamp will allow your allies to extrapolate where the enemies are if they have the knowledge and experience to process that information. This will provide one of the vital segments of information that is simply missing from the game right now unless you are in a division.

figure 1, spotted by enemy ships.

Figure 2, spotted by enemy planes

 

Figure 3, spotted by radar, hydroacoustics

This information alone will enhance team work. It also helps division when a member dies off and it becomes necessary to coordinate with players outside of the division. It would also mean that ships can move with more certainty. If an Atago sees an Akizuki 4 km in front of her and the Akizuki isn't spotted, she'll know that it's safe to advance. If a Shokaku sees a New Orleans making wild maneuvers even though the ocean around her seems empty, she could send over planes to find and kill the destroyers that are on the flank. The spotted lamp provides the information that would not be available to most players currently, allowing for faster reactions to threats for those who know how to take advantage of it.

 

Consumable use

Knowing when to use consumables, and when to save them.

 Chaining consumables is one of the basic advantages of divisioning. An Atlanta and two Belfasts can basically form an impenetrable wall against destroyers. When you're playing alone however, it becomes difficult to know when and when not to use consumables. Is that Neptune whose smoke you are freeloading using her hydroacoustic search, or should you use your own so you both won't fall prey to that enemy Shima with a torpedo value that seems dangerously similar to F3s? Does that New Orleans have her defensive fire cooldown deployed, or should you use yours so neither of you would get nuked by that incoming air strike. Being able to chain consumables effectively is needed for a proper team to function and an indication of when a consumable is avaliable would be extremely useful for most players with even the tiniest bit if situational awareness.

Figure 4, consumable use

Another thing that should be implemented is data that shows which consumables are available to your team mates. A list of all of the consumables that they have could be placed alongside their names in the team data panel. I don't have a drawing of that, but a list of the consumables that they have off cooldown next to their names when you hold tab would provide invaluable information that you could use to great effect if you know how. This means that the team can wordlessly communicate their intentions just by how they're moving their ships and what consumables they have off cooldown.

 

Intermission

Youtube ad! Yay!

 

It has come to my attention that I am not receiving enough attention. I have therefore created a Youtube channel to provide me with my daily requirement of attention, without which I would wither up and turn into a forum troll. Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

Linguistic barriers

This is probably more of a problem that is restricted to Europe and Asia, but a problem it is.

 Linguistic communication issue will likely always be a problem. Most players can't be bothered to learn the game mechanics, much less learn another language to improve their performance in the game. It is unreasonable to expect it, and therefore we should be less fixated on complaining about it and more on doing something about it. Considering how big the server is, it should be easy to implement a google translate API into the game as at least a stopgap method. This isn't ideal, but at least it provides an option that isn't tabbing out and typing the sentence into google translate to see what one of your team members is on about. This is also useful on the test server.

 

Function keys

 The idea of the function keys by themselves is clever. The guy who came up with the concept either entirely lifted the formula off WoT or they simply didn't think about it hard enough. I don't think it's a controversial statement to say that about half the function keys are useless.

	Action	Value	Keep?
F3	Designating target	Very useful	Yes
F4	Thank you	Mostly useless	No
F5	Affirmative	Useful	Yes
F6	Negative	Useful	Yes
F7	Requesting support	Useful	Yes
F8	SOS	Redundant. Basically the same thing as F7	No
F9	That was a great battle	Useless	No
F10	Good luck everyone	Useless	No
F11	&*%&*(&	Useless	No

 

Over half of the function keys are either useless or redundant. Now it might be nice to wish the team a good game, but then that could be handled just as well as by typing it out. Function keys are most useful in emergencies or in high activity engagements that needs that type of concise communication. Wishing the team a good battle, cursing in chat, and informing the team and maybe the enemy team of what a good game it is is NOT an action that requires haste. The keys that corresponds to those functions should be removed and replaced with something better.

	Action	Use
F3	Designating target	In game already
F4	Requesting support	In game already
F5	Affirmative	In game already
F6	Negative	In game already
F7	Advancing	It's rather important to tell the team when you are committing to a push.
F8	Retreat!	A useful command for when you're running for a flank. Also useful for ordering overextended ships back.
F9	Preparing to deploy smoke	It would be extremely useful to be able to quickly tell a friendly ship that you are trying to smoke them up.
F10	Preparing to deploy search consumable	Being able to tell your allies when you're about to use radar is quite useful, especially when focus firing.
F11	Requesting air cover	Designation for air cover, which is a command that requires unique attention from only a specific set of ships

These new suggestions provides utility in game, are more useful than the canned communication right now, and would facilitate far better team play. If I need to thank someone, I can just type it into chat with two letters or four keystrokes total. If I need to tell an ally I'm deploying smoke, if I need air cover, or if I'm ordering a retreat, it currently takes far more keystrokes and is far more important for the team to know. This is especially helpful as function keys translates across language barriers, meaning that there is no issue of miscommunication with these extremely important and time sensitive commands and is far better than the current system we have right now.

 

Spotting target marker

 It is often difficult to know whether or not you are actually spotting a target sometimes. It is especially important in a ship with a smoke screen or a carrier. A carrier is risking her planes by hovering near the enemy location. If the enemy ship would be spotted regardless, then the CV can pull her planes back. Likewise, it would be useful for a smoke ship to know when it's safe to drop smoke and fire at the enemy and when their eyes are needed to keep their enemy lit up for the team. Sometimes it's obvious, like when two destroyers are mutually spotting each other. Other times, it's far more ambiguous and a spotting market above the enemy ships that you are spotting or that only you have line of sight to would be immeasurably useful and would help players be far better team mates.

 

Well, that was this week's Bottleship Report. Perhaps next week I'll talk about something less serious, like implementing missile cruisers and destroyers. Now that this is done, I can finally get back to playing World of Warships.

[hgbn_dk]

All very good ideas like them very much

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

Great post.

With regards to divsions I have thought long and hard over that subject and I have come to the conclusion that a 3 ship division has too high an influence on the battle's outcome whether the division is a unicum or ultrabad. If we compare the WoWS division with the WoT platoon it is clear that a 3 ship division has on paper a significantly higher influence than a 3 tank WoT platoon because a 3 ship division is 25% of the entire team whereas a 3 tank platoon is only 20% of the entire team.

If the WoWS division was limited to 2 ships it would be 17% of the entire team which is closer to the 20% of a WoT platoon which has a better balance.

 

Also taking WoT platoon mechanics in mind where arty can no longer play in a platoon perhaps it is time that carriers are prohibited from doing the same as the most influential and balance skewering division setup is a 3 ship division consisting of 1 CV, 1 BB and 1 DD and if the opposing CV is not in a similar division the battle's outcome is more or less decided before the actual battle starts. This would mitigate having a low skill/experience CV on one team vs a good one on the other as the good one will not be able to use division mates to absolutely rape the opposing team.

In short; the game needs to limit the seal clubbing divisions so that more players can have a good time playing the game.

[Molybdane]

All very good suggestions, although I am a little concerend that with the current playerbase, they will help very little..

[beercrazy]

Great post.

With regards to divsions I have thought long and hard over that subject and I have come to the conclusion that a 3 ship division has too high an influence on the battle's outcome whether the division is a unicum or ultrabad. If we compare the WoWS division with the WoT platoon it is clear that a 3 ship division has on paper a significantly higher influence than a 3 tank WoT platoon because a 3 ship division is 25% of the entire team whereas a 3 tank platoon is only 20% of the entire team.

If the WoWS division was limited to 2 ships it would be 17% of the entire team which is closer to the 20% of a WoT platoon which has a better balance.

 

Also taking WoT platoon mechanics in mind where arty can no longer play in a platoon perhaps it is time that carriers are prohibited from doing the same as the most influential and balance skewering division setup is a 3 ship division consisting of 1 CV, 1 BB and 1 DD and if the opposing CV is not in a similar division the battle's outcome is more or less decided before the actual battle starts. This would mitigate having a low skill/experience CV on one team vs a good one on the other as the good one will not be able to use division mates to absolutely rape the opposing team.

In short; the game needs to limit the seal clubbing divisions so that more players can have a good time playing the game.

 

nice idea but I would prefer the number of ships being increased to 15 instead of limiting the number of players in divisions

I personally play solo, 2 player divs and 3 player divs and the most fun I have is in 3 player and if the number of players in a division was limited I would probably stop playing as much due to fact the people I play in 3 divs would go and find a game where we can all compete together

I understand the problem divisions throw up but I feel the benefits to competitive play and simple fun make keeping divisions of 3 players a must

[iJoby]

5 Star Post, Thanks.

[Sidian42]

Very good ideas, well presented.

 

One note on the function keys: I would keep the "thank you" (because a nice "thanks" when doing something for the team keeps the motivation up to do this again in the future). And there should be a "target has just used his damage control" button. Knowing when a target is vulnerable to fires and flooding is a very useful information.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

nice idea but I would prefer the number of ships being increased to 15 instead of limiting the number of players in divisions

I personally play solo, 2 player divs and 3 player divs and the most fun I have is in 3 player and if the number of players in a division was limited I would probably stop playing as much due to fact the people I play in 3 divs would go and find a game where we can all compete together

I understand the problem divisions throw up but I feel the benefits to competitive play and simple fun make keeping divisions of 3 players a must

 

The maps are generally not large enough for 15 ships in them and 12 ships is already stretching it; 8 ships would be a far better number compared to the current map sizes.

The problem with divisions could also be solved by letting solo players only face other solo players and divisions only face other divisions.

[urr027]

"I have been spotted" or similar would be a useful message.

[hgbn_dk]

 

The maps are generally not large enough for 15 ships in them and 12 ships is already stretching it; 8 ships would be a far better number compared to the current map sizes.

The problem with divisions could also be solved by letting solo players only face other solo players and divisions only face other divisions.

 

I agree.. After playing ranked with the smaller teams... A lot more fun and the fact that it is easier to carry if the rest of your team don't perform good or having bad RNG

You also have more space to conduct various tactics.

[tenacious_torps]

Like the function keys, but don't think we need one for retreat. Ping ship in question on map, negative! advance! - done. Instead we can use that freed up key for "smoke ending soon". It's essential information, especially if DDs actually deploy for the team and do not stay in, but spot. You can't just watch for the smoke generating ship to start moving to gain that info then. 

[CleverViking]

Great post as always. Sadly this means that it'll be completely ignored by WG as it makes way too much sense to implement.

 

PS. Love your drawings and writing style, as per usual 

[Ubertron_X]

Actually I would rather like to have the automatic situational awareness skill removed than improved, however in order to improve teamplay I have been an advocate for more meaningful function keys ever since.

 

Also the friendly loadout information would be really handy, e.g. ships "suddenly" without smoke (British CA or Russian DD) or ships with/without AA (German CA, US DD, RU DD).

 

 

P.S.: What is the German ship trying to say in panel one? Nein, ich will es auch (nicht)?

[TheCinC]

dasCKD, another fine topic!

Bravo, I say.

Just wanted to add this:

 

"As for teamplay, we're preparing quite massive quick commands update, that should give players more tools of simple, yet efficient interacting with their teammates. Stay tuned."

Sauce: Sub_Octavian in the Questions from the Community thread.

 

[Mehmeds]

This is fantastic post! It really should get stickied, so it stays on top all the time, and people could join brainstorm.

PS.

Kudos for drawing skill. Comics are fun, and are a good portrayal of issues you speak about.

[avenger121]

Could OP stop spamming this forum with his weeb drawings? Oversexualised underage females with melon breasts are simply disgusting.

[Ubertron_X]

Could OP stop spamming this forum with his weeb drawings? Oversexualised underage females with melon breasts are simply disgusting.

 

[dasCKD]

Could OP stop spamming this forum with his weeb drawings? Oversexualised underage females with melon breasts are simply disgusting.

 

One day, we will find a use for all of the salt you produce. Maybe as some kind of energy source. On that day, scarcity shall be a thing of the past and the world shall come together in peace.

[CleverViking]

One day, we will find a use for all of the salt you produce. Maybe as some kind of energy source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_power

We could make him into a generator?

[dasCKD]

Also taking WoT platoon mechanics in mind where arty can no longer play in a platoon perhaps it is time that carriers are prohibited from doing the same as the most influential and balance skewering division setup is a 3 ship division consisting of 1 CV, 1 BB and 1 DD and if the opposing CV is not in a similar division the battle's outcome is more or less decided before the actual battle starts. This would mitigate having a low skill/experience CV on one team vs a good one on the other as the good one will not be able to use division mates to absolutely rape the opposing team.

 

In short; the game needs to limit the seal clubbing divisions so that more players can have a good time playing the game.

 

Kann won't be happy about the carrier exclusion thing 

 

In terms of divisions though, there's a lot of combinations of ship combos that are unfortunately extremely easy to exploit to great effect. A lot of ships have weaknesses i.e. Belfast has poor AA defense, Scharnhorst's guns have poor penetration, Atlanta has basically no armor and poor gun performance at range. Alone, they're somewhat balanced. When divisioned up though, their balancing weaknesses disappears and they become close to unbalancable.

[loppantorkel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_power

We could make him into a generator?

dasCKD would have to fit into it to, creating new salt inducing drawings.

[El2aZeR]

 

Let's hope he forwarded these suggestions to the dev team.

[dasCKD]

Let's hope he forwarded these suggestions to the dev team.

 

Might not be the best idea. From what I've heard, if a WG developer lays eyes on a sensible idea their heads would explode.

[El2aZeR]

Might not be the best idea. From what I've heard, if a WG developer lays eyes on a sensible idea their heads would explode.

 

Maybe a good opportunity to replace them with more competent people then? 

[Agantas]

Spotted/radio location alert can be done by a single button. You press it and the it gives your spotting status to the team. So, you'd get a message like:

-I've been detected by an enemy vesel

-I've been detected by enemy sonar/radar (a common word for these would be nice)

-I've been detected by enemy aircraft

-I've been radio located

-I've been detected by enemy aircraft and radio located.

-I am no longer detected.

 

Something like that. Single button that picks your status should be sufficient. We have F3 working pretty well with variables too.