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Krogort

Ending passive meta

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Beta Tester
149 posts
4,311 battles

As many of you have noticed, high tier games have became flow dull with many ships sticking to long range sniping for most of the game. Battleships oftain being the main culprit.

Those games proves to be not much fun for many...

 

In order to end passive meta we must first figure out why it happens.

Why do ships suddently stick to long range sniping after T8 ?

 

Is it map becoming much more open (more line of fire) ?

Increased range of ships ?

Increased long range accuracy of ships ?

Too much torpedo soup ?

Something else ?

Edited by Krogort

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[SKIDZ]
Players
959 posts

Unless your BB is supported which often isn't the case in randoms BB players will always sit back there needs to be an incentive for players to work as a team (yes I know a greater chance of winning should be enough) but for average Joe some kind of XP buff whatever to actually play your ship in its correct roll

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[TTTX]
Players
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Its primarily a player issue.

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[MIMI]
Beta Tester
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I agree. It is probably a player issue. Why? Maybe it is deep encoded like in "fight or flight". And most choose flight. Probably also the reason they pick BBs because they think they are more safe with those.

 

This pin-point analysis has been brought to you by

Doc. Mud "Freud" Monkey

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[ALONE]
Modder
2,171 posts
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No, i say it's a design issue. Designing a game about "who moves first looses"

Giving BBs all to fight well at long distances & best survivability. Even telling in the training videos that they best stay in the back.

They said several times that all is fine, maybe monitor the situation some more. No this will stay that way.

No wonder more and more players are switching over to coop. :hiding:

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Players
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Unless your BB is supported which often isn't the case in randoms BB players will always sit back there needs to be an incentive for players to work as a team (yes I know a greater chance of winning should be enough) but for average Joe some kind of XP buff whatever to actually play your ship in its correct roll

 

I don't think this is right,

because there are already lots of incentives to work as a team, but because its online gaming people just DONT and WONT and so its their teammates fault every single time. and they just get less because they can't comprehend teamwork

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[UNICS]
Players
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I don't think this is right,

because there are already lots of incentives to work as a team, but because its online gaming people just DONT and WONT and so its their teammates fault every single time. and they just get less because they can't comprehend teamwork

So.. you're blaming the blamers...? :hiding:

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Players
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So.. you're blaming the blamers...? :hiding:

 

yes I am, because I no longer play the game so I am a neutral third party.

 

 

I think that's how it works anyway :P

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Alpha Tester
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It´s a mix of factors.

 

- bad map design. Maps at high tiers are too huge. Considering the decreasing speed with increasing shipsize, the decision for a side often is a decision for the whole match. Switching sides, especially in big units like BBs and some cruisers is almost impossible, since the attempt to cross the map will mist likely end up in a shooting galey for the enemy.

- flawed ship/class design. BBs got the range for long distance engagements, and since their rng-guns are at 20km as "reliabl" as they are at 5km, but 20km range offer a higher chance for survival, players stay at range. DDs still act as area denial weapons. They controll corridors with their torpedoes and are more of a psychological, than a real thread. Cruisers are everybodies fool. They lack the range to engage BBs without risking an instant kill on dectetion and they lack the ability to counter DDs in a way that would BB-snipers feel more comfortable. They are basically the punchingball for all other classes. The first in, first spotted, first dead. In other words: 2 classes stay out of range (CVs, BBs), one remains invisible (DDs) and only one can be shot at by all others (cruisers).

- flawed reward system: the longer you stay in game, the higher your chance for a good reward. Movement, engaging bears the risk of detection. First move, first die. Nobody wants to be the first back in port. Since we have no teamplay, tarets often pop up occasionally and one by one, allowing for focus fire for whoever moved second.

 

A first step would be the decrease of map sizes, maybe in colaboration of overall engagement ranges (nerfs to the range of all weapons equally) to prevent ships with extremly long ranges to reach across the whole map, no matter the position. The reason why we enjoy midtier and lowtier battles as the more engaging ones is the reduced map size. Players can react quicker to new situations, and it takes less time to join an engagement. The second step would be a complete overhaul of several mechanics, like we just witnessed in WoT. Then, maybe, we will see a change for the better...

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[HABIT]
Beta Tester
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I for myself (and the guys I usually play with) don't mind going first or second line with our BBs as long as we have some sort of support or know that the enemy does not have a significant advantage. The support can be a (bunch of) cruiser(s) hanging right behind or with us, DDs slightly in front for early and crucial torpedoe spot or even carrier planes which survey the area.

The thing IMO is, even though some people like to see it differently, you can't just go bow on and throw yourself right into the fray as a BB with less or no support. It might work for one or two minutes and then it is over because you usually have no possibility to retreat or reposition without getting massive damage (be it by over BBs, torpedoe carpets or HE spam) while RNG takes care of your guns. 

 

I don't think there need to be more rewards for simple things like teamplay but to me it seems like a player issue, too. A player issue from both side that is. Those who hang back because "I am save here and have a nice campfire going" and those who run away at the first glimps of an enemy ship and leaving the BBs who actually want to push to die when the enemy main force arrives. I don't expect cruisers or DDs to hold back the enemy main force by themselves but it should be possible to take some shots at the first enemy or at least tell other players when they plan to retreat (before they are half across the map).

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Beta Tester
345 posts
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BBs dont push, Cruisers cant risk going solo or they will be nuked, DDs may go alone to capand spot, but the rest will just wait for each other to push, none will, and the game will just be a camping fest.

 

its even worse when both teams lemming train to one cap only, so, you have the enemy team going full right, and our team going full left, which means minimum combat, the cowards way

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[DMAS]
Beta Tester
311 posts
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Give BB KV2 like accuracy and some aiming time, and it won't be long before BB start coming for close quarter.

Edited by rigawe
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[_DIB_]
Players
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A first step would be the decrease of map sizes, maybe in colaboration of overall engagement ranges (nerfs to the range of all weapons equally) to prevent ships with extremly long ranges to reach across the whole map, no matter the position. The reason why we enjoy midtier and lowtier battles as the more engaging ones is the reduced map size. Players can react quicker to new situations, and it takes less time to join an engagement. The second step would be a complete overhaul of several mechanics, like we just witnessed in WoT. Then, maybe, we will see a change for the better...

 

Really Decreasing the size of the map will not stop ships from hanging back. They will hang back no matter what the map size is. The lower tier maps are suited for the lower tiers ships that are portion to the map. The size of a Yama on a lower tier map would be putting on 3 sizes to small of a shoe. You can't compare WOT with WOW maps like this. Besides smaller map would be shorter game play to a set and no real strategy play, just rush in sink something and be sunk. 

 

Edited by Inked9

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Players
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Just make it a game mechanic that the lesser you move from spawn the lesser XP and credits you earn, and spawn should be considered to be the entire grid row next to the map border. say -50% XP/credits

Each grid row increase XP... When people start getting next to no XP they'll move... reluctantly

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Beta Tester
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Just make it a game mechanic that the lesser you move from spawn the lesser XP and credits you earn, and spawn should be considered to be the entire grid row next to the map border. say -50% XP/credits

Each grid row increase XP... When people start getting next to no XP they'll move... reluctantly

I was myself thinking more like dividing map to areas basing to their importance with higher reward for damage from from closer to map center and vicinity of caps.

Plain distance traveled as measure is vulnerable to exploitation by cruising in rear of the map or following borders.

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Not if the distance traveled counter is disabled in the grid rows along the border of the map.... But I like your idea to

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[TOXIC]
Players
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Give BB KV2 like accuracy and some aiming time, and it won't be long before BB start coming for close quarter.

 

They have the former and the latter would only make them sit back more so that they can have the aiming reticle shrink without risking the need for maneuvers of any sort.

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Or just introduce bot submarines patrolling the 2 most outer grid rows torpedoing campers and CV's hiding in the corners... starting 5 mins after match start

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Players
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Said it before, will say it again: Spawn BBs front row center, in sight of each other. By the time they managed to reverse out of immediate danger the numbers will have gone down enough to allow for some more dynamism. 

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[SLAPP]
Players
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well its mostly the players not daring to push in.

But i would say its the high tier maps  are an issue as well.

like mountain range and tears of the desert those maps do not encourage capping with poorly placed cover.

i would think if there where more safe zones around the caps ppl will take more risk in pushing in because they have a fallback option if it goes wrong.

At least i hope they will in the long run. this also could help with the ppl who Do rush in all suicidal and get deleted immediatly thus ending ur game before it started.

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Players
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Add some dynamic weather like the cyclones but not as severe. Also instead of hard capping view distance, scale it in accordance with normal detection range. This will push engagement ranges closer.

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[NSVE]
[NSVE]
Players
409 posts
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Can't WG add a script that improves shell accuracy the slower moving the target the more accurate you fire. That'll stop ships sitting still behind islands and BBs sitting bow on in gaps or slowly reversing away from you. Also reduce bow armour and lower the citadels or make them smaller or tougher.

 

I'll just slowly exit stage right... Sorry...

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Players
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Said it before, will say it again: Spawn BBs front row center, in sight of each other. By the time they managed to reverse out of immediate danger the numbers will have gone down enough to allow for some more dynamism. 

 

Lol. Love it. :D

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