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Ronnielox

I can't do well in higher tier battleships

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Alpha Tester
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2,367 battles

Hi guys, 

 

I just can't do well in high tier battle ships like Tirpitz or N Carolina. Avarage damage per game is 40000. That's nothing! 

I shoot AP against most ships. Even broadside on they do no more than 2000 hp per salvo. Sometimes I get a citadel, but not very often. 

Most of the times I get damaged by HE fire or AP damage from other BB and lost the game with only 40000 damage dealt. 

I always end on the lower end of the result screen. 

 

What can I do better? 

 

Cheers, 

 

Ronald 

 

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[BLUMR]
Beta Tester
857 posts
10,975 battles

Always try to analyze your play style at the end of a battle, what you did wrong or what you could have done at a given moment and be prepared your next battle.

 

If you are too aggressive look at your team if they follow you push forward if they stay back you stay back. No point in dying for a bunch of campers

If you are too passive try and push with the Cruisers or be relatively close to them.

 

Checked your stats and I see you got a lot of high tier premiums and very few battles to know how to use them properly, my suggestion would be start grinding a line, no skipping and get a feel for it, shooting, leading and positioning and always try and find your mistakes when you die. 

And the most important Situational Awareness, look at the map and know what you will fight and plan accordingly.

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Beta Tester
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In general its all about minimising the damage you take and maximising yours. There are a few ways you can do this, but the key points are to always maintain effective angle against as many targets as possible and target the areas of the ship that will give you the best damage. 

 

ie, Target just under the turrets on a broadsided ship, or the superstructure on a ship that has an sharp angle towards you. 

 

Effective gunnery will be a big asset, as a rule of thumb get to know the travel times of your shells. Take note of the estimated travel distance that is displayed on your hud and lead your targets. When you have this "eyed" you can effectively blind shot and straddle any target. 

 

Always be moving, the amount of times I have sunk stationary ships is laughable, this is not like tanks where you can duck in and out of cover reliably, manoeuvrability is the key to survival. So with this in mind you should be zig zagging like a Bumble Bee on crack.. No matter what ship you are in. 

 

Don't get tunnel vision, you should be in your scope only when firing and checking your shots. Get into the habit of always looking around you and on the mini map. 

 

If you are being engaged by Torp baring ships, watch out for tell tail splashes which indicate torps in the water. Always assume they have fired 1/2 of their torps rather than the full wack, and turn in the direction with the least resistance to your rudder. Ie, if your rudder is to the left continue that turn. Of course that is a matter for contention

 

As for the others.

 

Set your secondaries by pressing Ctrl and selecting the target with your mouse. Same with AA.

Press Left Alt and Numberpad + to bring up more info. 

 

 

lastly don't be afraid of making mistakes. Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.

 

Some vids below.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Yorkie_GBR
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Hi guys, 

 

I just can't do well in high tier battle ships like Tirpitz or N Carolina. Avarage damage per game is 40000. That's nothing! 

I shoot AP against most ships. Even broadside on they do no more than 2000 hp per salvo. Sometimes I get a citadel, but not very often. 

Most of the times I get damaged by HE fire or AP damage from other BB and lost the game with only 40000 damage dealt. 

I always end on the lower end of the result screen. 

 

What can I do better? 

 

Cheers, 

 

Ronald 

 

 

Engage the enemy more closely

 

I had similar problems with my Warspite trying to follow the herd. You may end up dead quicker than the campers but if you try to engage around 10km, you'll do better. Consider using the secondary module and the skill to get a 40% range boost to your secondary batteries, that will really help with your damage, especialy on those German gunships.

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[TTTX]
[TTTX]
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you could start by abandoning all your high tier ships, going back to Tier 4 and actually learning the game from that level instead of just throwing heaps of money at it... much more enjoyable for both you and your team when you actually know what you're doing because you learned it naturally. Other than that, your stats don't really show any particular weakness - you're not overly campy judging by your survival rate but your hitrates are still poor, so your average damage suffers a lot.

Back to Boot Camp, Recruit! :izmena:

Learning mechanics and tips from youtube videos (iChase's Captains Academy linked above is great) and divisioning with better players (shameless plug for the Forumites ingame channel, the one by Sturmtiger, password play4fun) to get direct advice from them are probably the best ways to improve...

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Beta Tester
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Set your secondaries by pressing Ctrl and selecting the target with your mouse. Same with AA.

 

 

 

Does that actually make a difference on the secondaries, when you don't have the *Manual Secondaries' skill? I know it boosts AA performance.

 

Nice post with great advice, btw! :great:

Edited by Procrastes

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Beta Tester
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you could start by abandoning all your high tier ships, going back to Tier 4 and actually learning the game from that level instead of just throwing heaps of money at it... much more enjoyable for both you and your team when you actually know what you're doing because you learned it naturally. Other than that, your stats don't really show any particular weakness - you're not overly campy judging by your survival rate but your hitrates are still poor, so your average damage suffers a lot.

Back to Boot Camp, Recruit! :izmena:

Learning mechanics and tips from youtube videos (iChase's Captains Academy linked above is great) and divisioning with better players (shameless plug for the Forumites ingame channel, the one by Sturmtiger, password play4fun) to get direct advice from them are probably the best ways to improve...

 

So much this.

 

One regular tech tree ship played more than 10 times, nearly only playing premiums.

 

Bypassing the learning curve and surprised one can't play well where basic skills are not just a requirement, but assumed for everyone with most players more capable than that, and surprised one can't do well...   :facepalm:

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Beta Tester
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Does that actually make a difference on the secaondaries, when you don't have the *Manual Secondaries' skill? I know it boosts AA performance.

 

Nice post with great advice, btw! :great:

 

It has 2 benifits in the grand scheme of things.

 

1) It prioritises a target, so if there is more than one target in the area one will be focused first. Ie, prioritising a DD

2) Its a good habit to get into especially if you do go manual secondaries on the Tirpitz but not the NC

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[KUMA]
Beta Tester
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To be honest, OP neither can I, and that's after several thousand battles in CBT and since the game went live. Some players are better suited to other classes. If the battleboats don't agree with you, give another class a try!

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Weekend Tester
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As others have said, get yourself back down to low tiers and don't start moving back up until you start to improve. You're doing no one any favours by jumping right up to tier 8 before you're ready. It's bad for your team and it's bad for yourself.

 

As for more general advice, it's hard to give specifics without a few replays to watch and give tips on what you could be doing better, but there are guides that have already been posted here that you can watch and the rest will mostly come with experience. Get yourself a South Carolina and go up the line as if you hadn't skipped all the ships, by the time you get to the North Carolina again you should be a better battleship player.

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[RPS]
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I would say start at the new York, the South Carolina is an awful BB, the Wyoming is slightly better but the new york was the first one I started enjoying in the US line. What I learned the most is not be too aggressive with those, you are slow until the NC, if you make a placement mistake it will cost you a lot to correct it. With the new mex and colorado I tend to take a central position close to cover, slightly behind the first line. If you position correctly, you should be able to help your team contest cap and you will be in a good position to push the central or one of the side cap if needed. But don't sit at the back of the map snipping, it doesn't work in US BB, you want mid range engagements, 10-15km works really well in my experience. Being just behind the main cap and moving slowly will make you a threatening presence, being slightly back mean you should be able to re position if needed, if you push too early you won't be able to get away with a speed of ~20 knots.
The main issue is when everyone decide to lemming on side of the map and leave you alone, usually you are too slow to catch up.

Check up this video, a lot of what he says work also for US BB:

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Weekend Tester
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I would say start at the new York, the South Carolina is an awful BB, the Wyoming is slightly better but the new york was the first one I started enjoying in the US line. What I learned the most is not be too aggressive with those, you are slow until the NC, if you make a placement mistake it will cost you a lot to correct it. With the new mex and colorado I tend to take a central position close to cover, slightly behind the first line. If you position correctly, you should be able to help your team contest cap and you will be in a good position to push the central or one of the side cap if needed. But don't sit at the back of the map snipping, it doesn't work in US BB, you want mid range engagements, 10-15km works really well in my experience. Being just behind the main cap and moving slowly will make you a threatening presence, being slightly back mean you should be able to re position if needed, if you push too early you won't be able to get away with a speed of ~20 knots.

The main issue is when everyone decide to lemming on side of the map and leave you alone, usually you are too slow to catch up.

Check up this video, a lot of what he says work also for US BB:

 

South Carolina is good, Wyoming is great. They buffed a lot of the US BBs lately, South Carolina got a much needed range buff.

 

If you want a truly awful BB you need to look at Japan, Mikasa and Kawachi would like a word.

 

Edit: To add, some of the best learning experiences can be found in the worst ships in a particular line. It's why you should never skip ships, not even the truly awful ones.

Edited by rvfharrier

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[RPS]
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Well it was a long time ago I did the south carolina, my issue was that the gun were so bad that you would miss a cruiser at less than 8km, I had game where I couldn't hit anything because of the dispersion, utterly frustrating. And destroyer could just come up to you and destroy you. I was relieved when I finished grinding it.

I wouldn't say the Wyoming is great, at least not when I passed it, I was a preferred target for CV which were still a thing at the time, it was painful, that's why the NY was a so much better when I finally reached it.

I don't think there is much to learn with the SC, sure angling can help you but I found that the issue were not other BB but HE spamming cruiser and DDs. You are also so slow that it's hard to help the team on some map. The wyoming could be a better starting point, at least you won't get shafted by the matchmaking and could learn how to positions and contribute as you will be top tier a lot of the time.

A lot of people are complaining about the colorado after the new mex, I found that it has amazing guns but is still very slow, which can be painful against german BB. However the sigma is good and the gun are accurate, which makes him deadly against any class. Just have to watch out your positioning. 

 

Edit: I grinded also the fury taco when it was a piece of garbage, sure I did learn a few things but nothing more than I would have learned with the Aboa. Unless there is a specific things you need to adapt to, I think some ships are not worth the time and energy. There is a reason why they reworked the fury taco.

Edited by Darloc

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Edit: To add, some of the best learning experiences can be found in the worst ships in a particular line. It's why you should never skip ships, not even the truly awful ones.

 

^^ This. A thousand times this. If you can get a positive winrate in the Emerald, you're well prepared for higher tier RN cruisers. If you can make the Myogi work for you, there's little that the game can throw at you in higher tier IJN BBs, that will turn out an insurmountable challenge. Other ships of that ilk: T-22, Kirov, Omaha class (when low tier), Pensacola. To some extent even the Gneisenau - the unreliable and few guns leave you little choice but to learn how to get into brawling distance with HP to spare. I'd even mention the New York, given the current MM. The combination of slow speed, mediocre armor and constantly being low tier - so also ending up on maps that are actually a bit big for the ship - is like a masterclass on BB positioning, both tactically and strategically. If I were to start the game today, knowing what I know now, I'd simply just ignore the whole unlocking business and only advance, when I feel I have nothing left to learn from that ship. Sure as hell would have saved me from developing bad habits, that prove annoyingly difficult to get rid of. 
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[RPS]
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The other thing no one mentioned, how trained are your captains? Jumping into tier VIII with a rookie captain is going to be painful.

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Weekend Tester
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A lot of people are complaining about the colorado after the new mex, I found that it has amazing guns but is still very slow, which can be painful against german BB. However the sigma is good and the gun are accurate, which makes him deadly against any class. Just have to watch out your positioning.

 

Colorado used to be a really bad ship, Vietnam flashback levels of bad, but with the buffs they've given it (plus new Tier 7 MM) it's genuinely competitive now. People shouldn't be complaining about it anymore.

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[RPS]
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I found that you get less top tier match recently, I have a lot of tier VIII and IX match with the colorado. It's a good ship, the main issue is how slow it is, especially at tier VII and above everything is faster than you. I saw a lot of people complaining about that and the fact that you lost some guns, but the guns are so much better I don't understand why... NC is great, just got it this week end and at least you can move around with it!

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[H_FAN]
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To OP:

 

First of all I want to congratulate you for coming here for advice.

 

As other posts say: Start the game all over again so to speak. I started early in WOWS in oct 2015, I played a lot of games in low to mid tier 2-7 but it took at least 1500 games before I was even aware of this magnificent forum and all youtube guides. So you have a good start there. You have a magnificent collection of Premiums. Nikolai, Arkansas Beta and Iwaki Alpha - you are a veteran.  Most of them you should leave in port until later. I personally bought an Atago early in my career with predictable results (bad).

 

First grind all types of ships at least up to T5-6 (Cv not so necessary) , then you know what every country/ship type have for strength and weakness and you know how far their torps range are etc.

 

One thing that on the margin means a lot in higher tiers is that most of your opponents run Premium account, premium consumable sand have higher skilled captains, besides having on average far more games than you.

If you are not facing a sealclubber that is not so important at the lower tiers. 

Start at least to grind one in each ship type and play lots of games in them.

 

You have New Mexico at T6, one excellent ship to learn the basics in 4x3 userfriendly gun layout, solid armour, decent AA, quite nimble but slow so you learn value of map awareness. Good but not great guns.

Play 50 games in her. Watch Youtube guides. See what happens. 

 

 

Flamus youtube on New Mexico (note that captain skills have changed)

 

 

Whiskeys gaming lounge New Mexico 

 

 

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Beta Tester
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I have never have much luck with any American battleship above and beyond the Arkansas Beta (which was the ship I got my first Kraken in).

 

But this is due to my lack of skill at gunnery, not to American battleships being deficient. Since I don't hit very much of what I aim at anyway, the German battleships fit me perfectly. They have the rate of fire to ignore the pain of a missed salvo, the armour to laugh at the accurate return salvoes of my frustrated enemy, and the speed to get in his face and shove my barrels right down his smokestacks* so close that even I cannot miss the target. And for desserts: Torpedoes!

 

* Sorry, that came out wrong. 

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Alpha Tester
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I played many games already, alpha tester. NC is the ship that I played for. No skipping. I will try to go back to lower tiers. I watch the vids of IChase very often! Love his vids!

Thanks for all the positive comments!

 

Kind regards

 

Ronald

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Alpha Tester
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I have 11 points commander on most ships. The have the preferred skills for that ship (I got the best skills from wows wiki)

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Alpha Tester
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Just played multiple games in Nikolai. Very good help of other players, cruisers and destroyers together with me. WON!

Another game, 2 Wyomings and only me. I won of them!

 

Much better than Tirpitz....

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I play the Nikolai often now, it really works to play lower tiers!

 

It really helps to play a ship averaging 66% win rate on the EU server for the last 2 weeks too!

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To be honest, you have too many premiums so it looks like to me you might have skipped important experience you get from battles.

The people that have not skipped it have learned some things the painful way, dodge better and get better positions. And also now there is this perk that tells you how many aim at you and a good player Immediately turns! (unlike on lower tier games).

 

And what you might lack is your accuracy to deal damage.
You need to outplay your enemy in any way before making the shots.

For example try to ambush cruisers without hinting that you are aiming them.

-lock to them the last moment (with x button unlock them)

-fire the full salvos to dont give them time to reach

-fire from stealth (islands smokes or your conclealment if u went that build)

 

learn to tell the difference on broadside targets (eg from minimap) even if they seem to be broadside, going slightly towards you and slightly away from you is a lot different (the first needs to aim slight below his belt, the second means at the middle of the belt).

Predict their evasive maneuvers. (when shell travel time is higher than 10s he has a fair amount of time to dodge. that means you need to aim at least at the middle to catch him on the turn (if he turns away)).

If the ship from broadside "titled" he started the turn and you were too slow, most likely you will miss. (in fact the moment you see this must be instant +-1 tick above or below)

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