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ThePurpleSmurf

Z-46 build, decisions decisions

Z-46 Build  

6 members have voted

  1. 1. Preferred Build

    • PM, LS, SE, TAE, SI, DE, CE
      5
    • PM, AR, LS, SI, DE, AFT, CE
      1

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Hello DD captains!

 

I'm undecided which build works better for the Z-46 in the current high tier meta. Anyone is using these builds and what is your experience with it? Other opinions or suggestions?

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WoWs Wiki Team, WoWs Wiki Team
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So far I have only fooled around with her on the PTS. But she sure has her strength with the torpedoes and the guns are the extension to her armament. I started with SE to unlock CE and added the torpedo reload and then SI. After that it probably is up to personal taste with maybe any combination of BFT, AR+1 point or TA+1 point. Maybe I am impressible but I found the torpedo stats with 10 km range and 67 kn pretty good and didn't feel the urge to go TA. But with 1.4 km detection range and about 60 s reload (with all mods+perks) their performance indeed looks impressive without further improvements.

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[LEWD]
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I would never use any of those 2 builds. The first one is just terrible and the second one still is questionable

DE is a total waste of points as your HE is very weak and you want to shoot AP as much as possible.

 

What you idealy want is this: PT (very, very cruicial), LS, SI, CE, AFT, BFT, AR

 

PT helps you to take advantage of people not looking / targeting you. It also helps you estimate where their DDs are once you are spotted by comparing the shown number with visible ships on the minimap. You want the range AFT provides to be able to kite as much as possible. You want SI so you can have an additional charge of smoke and hydro. And you want BFT so you can fire as many shells as possible when the oppurtunity arises or you sit in your short lasting smokes. AR and LS are no-brainers for T2 skills as is CE at T4.

 

edit: regarding TAE skill. This only lowers your already really short cooldown on torps by ~7 seconds depending on your HP (assuming reload mod and AR skill). It is NOT worth spending 3 points to get the cooldown from 76 to 68 sec (at 100% HP).

Edited by tmGrunty

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WoWs Wiki Team, WoWs Wiki Team
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You want the range AFT provides to be able to kite as much as possible.

 

I see the charm of that gameplay though I surprises me: why don't you want to improve anything about the torpedoes? They are clearly a strength of the ship and further improvements should just make them really reliable asset.

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I would never use any of those 2 builds. The first one is just terrible and the second one still is questionable

DE is a total waste of points as your HE is very weak and you want to shoot AP as much as possible.

 

What you idealy want is this: PT (very, very cruicial), LS, SI, CE, AFT, BFT, AR

 

PT helps you to take advantage of people not looking / targeting you. It also helps you estimate where their DDs are once you are spotted by comparing the shown number with visible ships on the minimap. You want the range AFT provides to be able to kite as much as possible. You want SI so you can have an additional charge of smoke and hydro. And you want BFT so you can fire as many shells as possible when the oppurtunity arises or you sit in your short lasting smokes. AR and LS are no-brainers for T2 skills as is CE at T4.

 

edit: regarding TAE skill. This only lowers your already really short cooldown on torps by ~7 seconds depending on your HP (assuming reload mod and AR skill). It is NOT worth spending 3 points to get the cooldown from 76 to 68 sec (at 100% HP).

 

Thanks for your reply and the sound explanation of your build. Let me try to do the same with my build choices.

I pick PM over PT because the Z-46 seem to have an issue with knocked out modules especially engine and rudder (which is bad kiting enemy ships) and I also want to have torps ready as much as possible because I consider them the bread and butter armament of the Z-46. LS is a nobrainer for any DD. SE helps against the exceptional damage the german DDs receive, especially from cruiser and BB shells. I find myself often with 2k or less HP at the end of the battle, without SE I would be dead. TAE because torps is the main armament and make the strength even stronger can't be wrong. SI is a nobrainer for perhaps 95% of ships in the game. The fire chance of the german DD (high tier) is already good and I would assume that DE is benefical, because the Z-46 is not a gunboat and I have only little time to spam shells at the enemy from smoke or from range kiting away. Yes, AP has highest priority but often enough I'm forced to use HE because a ship charges my smoke bow on or I have bow on BBs on the enemy team where my AP is useless. Setting as many fires as possible with as few salvos as possible is the target, to vanish into stealth again. DE starts more fires than BFT and considering that main guns are used not so much I consider BFT weaker the fewer salvos are fired with a hit and run tactic. CE is again a nobrainer. The main reason why I would want to use AFT is actually because of german BBs that I meet a lot in the T7 to T10 MM. All these suckers know nothing but secondary build that require zero skill and the ship does all the work and thinking for them. The problem is, that I can not open fire on them while they are often distracted, because with my 11km gun range I'm almost always in their 10.6km secondary range and the secondaries rip german DDs apart that it's almost ridiculous. With AFT I can stay outside their secondary range and harass them while they are engage in fights with other Ships or have them rely on their main guns only while kiting them. In the AFT build the AR is also a given because of the remaining 2 points and there is nothing better to use for 2 points.

 

Anyway, I'll think about your build and perhaps test it on PTS while it is up.

 

 

@KaraMon

Your link does not work for me. It only redirects me to an empty skill calculator without the build.

Edited by ThePurpleSmurf

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WoWs Wiki Team, WoWs Wiki Team
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Your link does not work for me. It only redirects me to an empty skill calculator without the build.

 

There were some additional characters, with %A and whatnot. If you cut it after the %, the link works (i guess as intended).

 

Regarding PM and PT: I think the engine/rudder/main armament protection is important. I think PT should be a second go pick after the other, more important perks were unlocked.

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I would never use any of those 2 builds. The first one is just terrible and the second one still is questionable

DE is a total waste of points as your HE is very weak and you want to shoot AP as much as possible.

 

What you idealy want is this: PT (very, very cruicial), LS, SI, CE, AFT, BFT, AR

 

PT helps you to take advantage of people not looking / targeting you. It also helps you estimate where their DDs are once you are spotted by comparing the shown number with visible ships on the minimap. You want the range AFT provides to be able to kite as much as possible. You want SI so you can have an additional charge of smoke and hydro. And you want BFT so you can fire as many shells as possible when the oppurtunity arises or you sit in your short lasting smokes. AR and LS are no-brainers for T2 skills as is CE at T4.

 

edit: regarding TAE skill. This only lowers your already really short cooldown on torps by ~7 seconds depending on your HP (assuming reload mod and AR skill). It is NOT worth spending 3 points to get the cooldown from 76 to 68 sec (at 100% HP).

 

On the Z-46/52 DE is far from a waste. 

 

The idea is to set fires so he uses his damage control so you hit your torpedo's and flood your target or you flood him from your torpedo spam and then set fire to him. 

Edited by Blitzkrieguk

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ok so i used this build ,

 

PM

LS

SE, BFT , SI , Torp reload

CE

 

Tried demo expert and i found that it wasn't really useful for me. Most of the time guns were used on DD that is why i choose BFT over DE , with 68 seconds torp reload you want to launch as many as you can at BBabies , using guns only alarm them that something is hunting them .

 

Same with AFT i found out that it was a waste of points , i never used it . To "use" AFT i need to stay at 12-13 km but then i can't use torps . I like my torps to be launched from closer distance 7-8 km for better accuracy .  Now launch torps , get to 12 km , start shooting , stop shooting , wait 20 seconds get in torping range ...... it will take much more time than 68 seconds :sceptic: . Imho not worth it .

That is why i spent points in superintendent , more smokes, more hydro , more nitro . If i rally want someone burning i do it from smoke.

Edited by KaraMon

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[LEWD]
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I see the charm of that gameplay though I surprises me: why don't you want to improve anything about the torpedoes? They are clearly a strength of the ship and further improvements should just make them really reliable asset.

 

I do buff the torpedoes with the torpedo reload upgrade module in slot 3 and Adrenaline Rush. That's why the TAE captain skill gives so little additional value for 3 points.

And if you want to look up my stats in that ship you will see that my build works very well.

 

I'm not against having SE or a full torpedo build at all. But for me the Z-46 is a perfect hydrid and specializing it into one direction will neither make you the best gunboat, nor the best torp boat of its tier. Therefore I want to keep the hybrid / jack of all trades aspect with my skills and get the most out of it (BFT and AFT for guns, torp reload module and CE for torps, Adrenaline Rush and SI for both).

Regarding DE. I have never been a fan of that skill at all and now with only 2% for 3 points it is even less appealing to me.

 

And for the range with AFT. This also help when you smoke up to give you more targets to chose from or shot at the target you want to for much longer if he starts sailing away from your smoke. It is not only useful for open water kiting.

 

edit: some calculations for the torpedo reload time

 

base: 90 sec

base + module: 76 sec

base + module + AR (50% HP): 68 sec

base + module + AR (50% HP) + TAE: 62 sec

 

Just ask yourself if you are really able to fire your torpedoes on cooldown (which I doubt) and even if so, would it made a difference if you had to wait 6 seconds longer. Or wouldn't you be able to launch and hit anyway.

 

Edited by tmGrunty

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WoWs Wiki Team, WoWs Wiki Team
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Just ask yourself if you are really able to fire your torpedoes on cooldown (which I doubt) and even if so, would it made a difference if you had to wait 6 seconds longer. Or wouldn't you be able to launch and hit anyway.

 

Indeed not. But if you take both perks I would rather argue TAE gives you 8 s from 76 s to 68 s without ever being damaged and AR at 50% gives you another 6 s on top (or possibly 10 s if almost dead). Hence I value TAE higher than AR when it comes to torpedo reloads. AR helps whenever I need more resources for aggressive plays but I would not want to rely on it from the start of a battle. Same goes for main guns of course.

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Well true but as I want to buff both guns and torps I have to look what gives me the most. 

The reload buff on torpedo upgrade mod. 3 is 15% and the one one main battery upgrade mod.3 is only 12%.

And while both TAE and BFT captain skill give a 10% reload buff, BFT offers a bit additional AA.

 

So if you want to buff both the choice is obvious. Torpedoes on the module and guns on the captain skill. (SI, CE and AFT are 100% set for me so no more points for T3 skills left). And then you have 2 points left on a 19 point captain that then obviously go into AR.

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I have tested a build with BFT on PTS with a Z-52 but this should be pretty much the same as Z-46. I'm not convinced by BFT but this is probably because I might have a different style of play.

The 4s reload goes down to 3.6s with BFT which is 1 additional salvo per minute, so I can roughly fire one additional salvo per smoke duration, 16 salvos instead of 15. If I lose 50% HP and the additional AR kicks in I can shoot 18 salvos, but then I also shoot 16 salvos without BFT. The 2% additional fire chance might be not that much, but I have this higher fire chance for all my fired HE shells which should ultimately set more fires than one additional salvo per minute can deal raw damage. In a perfect world I would only want to shoot AP at broadside ships, but this is not the reality and I am forced to use way more often HE than I like to. This one additional salvo (or in a more favourable way for the BFT build with -50% HP the 2 salvos) don't justify 3 skill points for my style of play.

Yes, over the full duration of a battle it is more than the theoretical 20 extra salvos from BFT but combat engagements have downtimes, you don't shoot your guns nonstop that's why the 'BFT timer' is resetted whenever you stop firing your guns. BFT does only have an effect if you actually shoot more than 11 salvos in one engagement and I think we can agree that this is not what happens most of the time. Scenarios where you shoot more than 11 salvos are usually sitting in smoke or while kiting a ship that chase you. In that case the ship is bow on and you want to shoot HE anyway.

Another scenario where BFT might be helpful would be in a knifefight with another DD where it is important to kill the enemy as fast as possible and the additional salvo would be fired at around the 40s mark (saved up time from BFT that let you shoot 11 salvos instead of 10 at the 40s mark), but even then... KM DDs are not meant to knifefight other DDs in first place and the 'smoke up and pop hydro trap' does not really care about the extra salvo.

 

TL;DR

I do not see much of a sense in using BFT on a KM DD other than to buff the AA for self-defense.

 

I start to understand why so many people play only BB. They do not have to break their head over things like this. :trollface:

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KM DDs are not meant to knifefight other DDs in first place and the 'smoke up and pop hydro trap' does not really care about the extra salvo.

 

I disagree with that. I'd pick a knife in my Z-46 with any other DD in the game except the Z-52 (for obvious reasons).

 

Now the thing with DE is just that it loses worth a lot once the target is already burning. Also I do switch to AP on broadside target no matter if the target has a fire on it or not. The AP is just soo good on those DDs. I sometimes even use it bow on because an AP overpen still does more damage than a HE shell into a an already damage saturated area. In a regular match I would say way over 50% of my shells fires are AP and DE does nothing for that. 

People argue a lot with BFT that it takes you a certain amount of time to get the extra salvo out to benefit from it. But that is not true. Yiou don't even need the extra salvo. All that matters is that it takes you less time to kill the target no matter of the amount of salvos you shoot. And needing less time to kill an enemy means he has less time to fire back (you take less damage) and you can go back into stealth earlier too.

 

As I said said earlier. German DDs are masters of opportunity. When the situation occurs you want to to ditch out as much damage in as little time as possible and then vanish again. Even if you only fire 5 salvos with BFT it means you are unspotted 2 seconds earlier.

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I must say I was pleasantly surprised by value of Z-46.   I consider her as a very good DD hunter (esp. Gearing is being eaten alive by 5k AP salvos) for anything except Soviet DDs.  Sonar is very powerful tool in these situations and extreme fast reload of torps are very useful for BBs/ CAs.  I was surprised by the effect of launching one voley of torps every 30s (when after DD fighst AR kicks in).  Almost no player is used to the fact of such a quick torp. reaload and consider him(her?)self safe for a minute or so after the last torp attack.

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0100000000000011010001010000000119 - my current build - like to see synergy between sonar and vigilance.  Maybe not so useful for me, but for the team for sure.  And there are times, when my sonar is on cool-down and esp. USN torps are very stealthy.

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