Ognevoi - too weak for T8?

[Aragathor]

Here's a question to everyone who has played the oggy after the split, is the ship too weak for T8?

Four guns, lots of grinding until the torps go from 2x3 to 2x5, quite visible compared to other ships and slow for a russian DD.

I can't really find anything positive to say about the Oggy right now, the ship feels weak compared to the T7 Minsk. Especially since T8 ships are regularly bottom tier.

 

Is there anything good about the Ognevoi? Or is the ship just too weak for T8?

[Z_OnkelE]

She is just completely different to the rest of all the Russian DDs. She is a torpedo boat and for that purpose her torpedoes are pretty good (they have the T10 stats). Probably the biggest drawback: she needs a captain trained specifically trained for her alone and that one does not fit into rest the line at all.

 

Play her like a IJN DD and when there is a chance to use a smoke she provides great guns (for a torpedo boat) though one could wish for one more turret. Still she can be compared to some degree to a ©-hull Benson with a focus on torpedoes because she also provides the defensive aa consumable.

[MoveZig]

Yeah, I feel it's missing something. You get the same guns at t6 and the torps, well... 2 minute reloads, really? Not a good combination with their low speed and abundance of radar and hydro in the high tiers. The HP pool is nothing special, concealment is almost German... it's pretty underwhelming. Not horrible, just a bland hybrid DD. Oh you get Def AA but given the scarcity of CVs I'd rather just keep the engine boost. In fact, I wish you could  keep the initial torp launchers, at least it'd be less boring to play.

[ShinGetsu]

You get the same guns at t6

 

No you don't.

Guns are the same as Khabarovsk and Grozovoi, that's why you have less of them. They're far better than Tashkent/Kiev guns.

 

As for the torpedoes, you get 2x5, so the long reload is kind of logical. Just launch them once every minutes and you get 5 torps in the water each minutes, that's more than enough to hurts most ships.

[avenger121]

No you don't.

Guns are the same as Khabarovsk and Grozovoi, that's why you have less of them. They're far better than Tashkent/Kiev guns.

 

No you don´t.

Guns are the same as Khabarovsk and Udaloi. They are better than Kiev/Tashkent guns, but worse than Gorozovoi guns. Although one could argue that the differences between the different versions of the 130mm gun are so small that you can effectively say it is the same gun all along the line.

[MoveZig]

Guns are the same as Khabarovsk and Grozovoi, that's why you have less of them. They're far better than Tashkent/Kiev guns.

 

On second inspection, they have 1% higher fire chance, 7% less dispersion and 30m/s faster shells than my Anshan's guns. The differences from new Gnevny are even slighter, only the muzzle velocity is better. They look the same as the Khaba, but Groz has a faster reload. I wouldn't call them ''far better'' than the others, it's pretty marginal. The big showcase of t8 in this branch is the new torps, yet a salvo a minute is kind of a snoozefest. At least Benson is a superb knife fighter, Kagero gets TRB and Z-23 gets hard-hitting guns and yes, they are a substantial upgrade over the t6. Having basically the same gun damage output as t6 is... a bit underwhelming. Yeah the turrets are nice but that's something more useful on a run-and-gunner.

 

Another thing worth mentioning is that imo, the new French cruisers make this branch's gimmick even more suspect. A Henri can exceed, what, 42 knots with engine boost on? (edit: holy crap it's 43.5!) What do you think will happen to an Ognevoi limited to 37kts without engine boost? It can get run down mercilessly. I've always said a Def AA gimmick is not a good idea with so few CVs around, this just makes it even less appealing. I hope at least they'll let these ships mount both consumables because Poseidon knows, Def AA rarely comes in handy.

[FallenOrchid]

She has some disadvantages, she is out spotted or out gunned by many other DD. The torps are great, they are detected very late. I suggest using both module and skill improving torp reload.

Work together with other DD who spot/cap, don't rush into cap before knowing where the enemy DD are. Use torps to wipe enemy smoke, survive early match and happy torping.

[Takeda92]

She's one of the few DDs I manage to get few 9-10 torp hits. Honestly, nit even in IJN DDs I managed to do that and I played a lot of those.

 

Don't brawl with it. The shells have very good speed so use them from range and from island/smoke cover. 

[Exocet6951]

 

 

Another thing worth mentioning is that imo, the new French cruisers make this branch's gimmick even more suspect. A Henri can exceed, what, 42 knots with engine boost on? (edit: holy crap it's 43.5!) What do you think will happen to an Ognevoi limited to 37kts without engine boost? It can get run down mercilessly.

 

That's a moot point though.

Sure the HIV can reach those speeds, but what do you think happens to a cruiser spotted 16km away who's chasing a DD, therefor closing in to the enemy team?

 

You shouldn't worry too much, as a stealthtorp ship, you won't have to worry about squichy cruisers that on average achieve 36 knots with the speed boost (so barely faster than a fast cruiser with no speed boost) and don't even have a radar either chasing you, or taking your role.

No matter how good a tier9 St Louis might be, it will never replace or even shadow an Udaloi in terms of role.

[Spellfire40]

She's one of the few DDs I manage to get few 9-10 torp hits. Honestly, nit even in IJN DDs I managed to do that and I played a lot of those.

 

Don't brawl with it. The shells have very good speed so use them from range and from island/smoke cover. 

 

​Torps detected at 1.1 km ..... we all known Ru invented the real oxigen torps not IJN with their Plasma based bubbletrail that Shows up on search Radar

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Don't underestimate the difference between Khaba guns and Trashkan ones.

 

The velocity difference means a lot at longer distances. You can easily paint things with the Khaba guns when Trash ones will derp. I speak from experience as having suffered a 100k xp+ grind in the Trash.

 

Ogn looks interesting on paper but I have both better torp boats and better gun boats. I'm still stock too so woe getting a hard T10 in the MM 

[SaxonHoliday]

I've been grinding the Ognevoi for a while now (everything unlocked, only working towards Udaloi) and she's... not a bad ship. Her major problem is that she is a jack-of-all-trades in a world of specialists. Sort of like AKZK, she is an oddball in the RU DD tree - all the other boats are fast, with quick-firing guns as their primary armament. Ognevoi is much slower by comparison, only has 2 turrets so her DPM is lacking, however, her concealment is much better than the rest of the line (though still worse than other nations at the same tier) and her torpedoes are excellent (by RU standards... not so much by American or Japanese ones).

 

She is very much a hybrid, able to take on most roles. However, she loses the gunnery game to non-IJN DDs, she loses the cap game to USN DDs and she loses the stealth-and-torpedo game to non-RU DDs. She does most things decently, but not well enough to be worth mentioning over her counterparts.

[22cm]

It is the worst tier 8 DD. Worst WR, damage or XP.

[bug]

I like the new Ognevoi better than the new Kiev, and I used to love the old Kiev. Ognevoi has only 2 x 2 guns, but they are lasers. Most DD duels or sniping in other dd, u need to zoom out when aiming so you can have big enough lead and still see the target. In Ognevoi you dont have to do that, and you dont have to wait halfe a minute for shells to land. And the torps may not be the strongest, but they are good. Only problem I got in Ognevoi, is that I forget its rather - its wrong to say slow - but not fast. 40 knots max with accelleration.

I only played 5 games so far, its still rather stock, and MM have not been too good. But still it performs OK, always mid or top, even in tier 10 games.

I killed 3 ships so far, and 2 were Kievs I killed in shoot-out duels. I dont know if they were stock or bad players, or if it is the Ognevoi that is so good ;)

 

[Thracen]

Get used to it, all dds suck now. All they are good for is capping and they can't so that without support which you almost never get. Give up and play a BB like the designers want you too. Or go play the only good light CC in the game, the kaba. Seriously I used to love dd play, so aggressive and exciting, fast paced. Now, sit in smoke bow on so u can only use 2/3rds of your guns so you don't eat torps, make sure you are 13km away from any radar cc/BB/dd because yeah they all have them now oh and remember hydro gets out to 7km and lasts ages. Double spotter planes too just incase you sneak a few slow easily spotted torps through all that rubbish. Oh and if you see a dd run away without shooting or die, because thats fun !

 

Seriously give up dds until they make them fun again. It's going to get worse if they improve CVs like they say then you really will never be able to play dds.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

DDs don't suck...

 

Yes Khaba is God but other DDs are still competitive.

 

You're often relegated to spotting, smoking and spotting for your team but DDs still win games by doing the above and capping.

 

Or would you prefer to camp at 15km in a BB, watching games pass you by?

[Thracen]

You make my point for me sir, DDs get to watch games and run from fights. Sure they win games with caps and spotting (not that most dds spot, preferring to sit in their own smoke blind). However they do not get rewarded for good play and getting within 10km of a ship that isn't another dd means death, either from cc HE, (acceptable) or BB pens (less so). Torping from safe ranges (if you even get that option 8km f3s anyone?) smoking others and scouting is just as boring as being that BB 5km behind you but of course your success is far more luck based than those BBs. Other top dd strats include spotting other dds and not shooting hoping your team isn't pants on head stupid or blind torping into smoke with your fingers crossed before fleeing at top speed from whatever pops out of the smoke with radar or hydro.

 

All this is before we even mention CVs and how fun it is to play a dd with a fighter above you all game. Seriously you can debate how balanced they are (most aren't) but you can't argue they are aggressive anymore. Nearly every ship in this game that isn't  BB is now a "support" Ship, which means run and hide for half the game while the BBs thin each other out and make it possible to survive in the open for more than a minute.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Yeah, DD are 100% vital to winning but often very, very passive and not a huge amount of action.

 

Their reward is the win I guess...

 

Playing as one DD torp boat with a DD gunboat at long range can be profitable for both of you.

 

Perversely I tend to play DD more these days rather than BBs which I started with as I enjoy affecting the flow of a game more than RNG AP dice rolls. 

[GeneraIKrizmuz]

.Perversely I tend to play DD more these days rather than BBs which I started with as I enjoy affecting the flow of a game more than RNG AP dice rolls. 

 

good boy

[bug]

 

BB is easier, but booring. I prefer dd and cruisers. It seems like everything that require a bit of skill is nerfed, dunno why. Sailing stright lines with BB, and camping and sniping and surviving in them is easier each patch as cv and dd are getting harder to play. Cant remember last time I had a torp hitting (well, it was last game, but u get my drift), or how many games BB (secondarys) killed me when trying to get into torp distance - so many BB have longer secondary range then many DD torp range... I still perform OK, not very good, in most dd, but I guess luck is big part of that.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

With enough practice, most BB guns can be turned on DDs who reveal themselves.

 

Played an Alabama game this morning and was reliably hitting DDs at about 10km. Mind you that's partly because those DDs didn't dodge as soon as they were targeted.

 

I'd actually recommend either taking PT or WASD as soon as you're spotted in any DD nowadays.

[Thracen]

It's actually easier to do damage in BBs than ccs to dds. DDs have to get close to BBs, their main targets to torp, making hitting them much easier. Furthermore these dds on the attack run turn less and behave more predictably in general while they focus on their drop. Throw in the fact that 1 over pen in a BB matches 1 pen in a cc and the few hits you do manage do more. The New orleans sucks at killing dds, the shells are so slow that anything over 7km will take little damage and escape, oh and if you actually get close enough to a dd to hit it hard you know you're most likely dead because there will always be a BB looking for a tasty target 15km away and out of detection range. Maybe I just suck but I don't even do much to dds in my donskoi, I get 2 salvos with the radar and if I get 3k damage out of it I've done well. Do all T9 ccs suck? because I get way better results (AGAINST DDS EVEN!) in my t8 BBs, let along my missouri. Seriously, minotaur, zao and moskova the only competitive CCs from T8 to T10? Oh forgot the premiums kutuzov and atago. Come to think of it considering the T8 uptiering grinding ccs at that level has to be the worst part of the game.

[Hugh_Ruka]

The Ognevoi needs +1 knot of speed and 4.2 sec stock gun reload (you cannot mount the reload mod at T8). Other than that it is a decent boat. Not great at anything, but played correctly it can handle the fights and help the team.

[MoveZig]

It's getting buffed pretty bigly in 0.6.8. - 115s torp reload down to 92s on Hull B.

[bug]

Tried it after patch. I like it, not big diff. Still having hard time against german BB secondarys if spotted, and still turns like, well it doesnt turn.