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Capping, RNG and lack of ingame feedback

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Beta Tester
3 posts

After having spent some time playing the game, which id say certainly has potential and is imo already fairly good, i would say that there are a couple of issues that seem to be ever present and which time and time again prevent me from perheaps spending more time in the game as i soon start to feel frustrated.

 

First off i think the speed of capping is way too fast given the generally slow pace of the game and general lack of ability of ships to react fast enough. I dont want to be pulling random numbers out of my [edited], but my guess is that half, or maybe even more of the games ive played, ended up with a cap that neither of the teams could have done anything about, because

 

a) either in order to make it back theyd have to stop engagement and would get wrecked as they attempted to go back

b) by the time the engagement ends there is no time to get back anyway

 

In my opinion doubling or even trippling the time it takes to cap would be in place.

 

Second is the seemingly ever present RNG and inability to reproduce previous results as one cant really tell what actually happened and what it was that produced the result one tries to reproduce. To be more concrete - one AP hit which seemed to hit the deck from above did 1k dmg. Then i would think that it might have been the fact that i hit from above that resulted in 1000 damage. So i try to do exactly the same - shoot the same shell at the same ship and hit the same spot, but now the result is 100 damage. So what next? So it wasnt hitting from above or hitting that particular part of the ship? Is it pure RNG or is the game not telling me enough information about what actually happened? Hitting a salvo for 5k dmg and with the next salvo one does 200 damage to the same area of the ship just doesnt make sense if one doesnt get to know "why" the results were so completely different. Either we arent being given enough information (and even then it might be useless information, if we cant access it at our leisure - such as - if the game told us that we did 1k because we hit some internal module it would be no help if we actually couldnt inspect ships for example in the hangar to see where the modules actually are, what their HP/armor or whatever is and what the mechanism is that makes it receive 1000 or 100) or there is simply too much RNG.

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Alpha Tester
3,692 posts
5,958 battles

After having spent some time playing the game 

 

Mmmmm..... 29 battles ? :amazed:

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Beta Tester
3 posts

 

Mmmmm..... 29 battles ? :amazed:

 

Played about the same in coop. And i dont think playing 1k battles would help me understand why sometimes it does 5k dmg and then the same thing does 100 dmg.
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Weekend Tester
483 posts

Capping time is spot on imo, it's enough to react, you just need to be aware of the whole situation. If the cap happens and you're out of position it's the team's fault, learn to adapt, always check the map where battles might happen, and if you're actually any useful in the upcoming engagement. I see a lot of people who just blindly follow a flock of ships, totally ignoring other flanks, or upcoming situations.

RNG is something which is necessary in WoWs, otherwise smaller ships wouldn't have any worthwhile role. Your example is invalid though, damage rolls can be influenced a lot with proper aim. Just stating you hit the same spot doesn't prove anything.

 

With RNG I mean critical hits, and shell spread over distance. The game offers many mechanics which are consistent (dependant on the caliber, but smaller ones have a higher rate of fire to compensate for that).

 

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Beta Tester
3 posts

Capping time is spot on imo, it's enough to react, you just need to be aware of the whole situation. If the cap happens and you're out of position it's the team's fault, learn to adapt, always check the map where battles might happen, and if you're actually any useful in the upcoming engagement. I see a lot of people who just blindly follow a flock of ships, totally ignoring other flanks, or upcoming situations.

RNG is something which is necessary in WoWs, otherwise smaller ships wouldn't have any worthwhile role. Your example is invalid though, damage rolls can be influenced a lot with proper aim. Just stating you hit the same spot doesn't prove anything.

 

With RNG I mean critical hits, and shell spread over distance. The game offers many mechanics which are consistent (dependant on the caliber, but smaller ones have a higher rate of fire to compensate for that).

 

 

I can imagine the cap speed might be just fine, but as you said - in case that the team doesnt ignore half the map. Which sadly was happening almost every game. Unlike in WOT where its somewhat plausible to hold a flank against even double the amount of opponents i fast realized that in wows the very worst thing one can do is to get into a situation where the enemy has more ships than your team does. So when i see theres only 2-3 ships going north i surely wont join them in the suicide. It is of course possible that in time the meta will develop in such a way that on every map the same types/amounts of ships will automatically deplay to specifis zones and that it wont be based on random whims of the players in every one particular game. But my experience from WOT would suggest otherwise, that experience would even suggest that the combined RNG of MM and level of retardation of most players will make sure that everything and anything will happen in most of the games and that no unspoken rules of what and how much goes where will develop.

 

If damage rolls can be influenced with proper aim, as you said yourself, then how come hitting exactly the same spot with the same shell from the same distance (so the angle of impact is the same) produces results that differ by 5000%? I of course am not talking about one particular instance, which i mentioned just to say something concerete so that those who lack the ability to understand general concepts know what im talking about. Its happening every single game where the same thing over and over again produces results that differ too much and the game gives zero information or explanation why that is so.

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Weekend Tester
483 posts

Well, at which distance did you hit the target twice at the same spot? Was it HE or AP? Did the earlier hit cause critical damage to a module?

AP tends to have broader roll ranges, as ships aren't just blocks of a single layer of material. You probably read enough of overpenetration already (which is feasible to assume in your case), but even if the armor is sufficient enough to lit the fuse, this stuff doesn't guarantee to land where it totally hurts, as it might bounce through random crap which changes the trajectory in the ship.

 

WoWs has more RNG than WoT, but you have to keep in mind that a tank is way smaller than a warship (although instead of angling the armor you have a grace period to avoid major damage dependant on the range). I think you shouldn't compare the games with each other too much, WoWs mechanics are different (and subject to change as it's still in beta)

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Alpha Tester
3,692 posts
5,958 battles

@troolenhardy, you talk about your experience in WoT. How battles do you have there ? The problem at the moment is we have many new players who don't have a clue about tactics. They have no situational awareness either. I get fed up with players coming onto the forum after 30 battles, saying this is OP, nerf it. I wonder how many tankers were such experts posting in the WoT forum after 30 battles ? I wish people would try a few hundred battles then give feedback :amazed:

 

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[D_T_M]
Alpha Tester
46 posts
13,246 battles

Good questions and observations OP :honoring:

Maybe claiming it as "some time" is a bit rich but they are valid observations and suggestions/questions.


 

With some though, the content of the post doesn't matter.

 

 

Ignore the trolls, they search through forums posts looking for someone they can jump on, in the hope of looking/feeling superior.

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[USEUR]
Alpha Tester
1,200 posts
2,600 battles

First off i think the speed of capping is way too fast given the generally slow pace of the game and general lack of ability of ships to react fast enough. I dont want to be pulling random numbers out of my [edited], but my guess is that half, or maybe even more of the games ive played, ended up with a cap that neither of the teams could have done anything about, because

 

a) either in order to make it back theyd have to stop engagement and would get wrecked as they attempted to go back

b) by the time the engagement ends there is no time to get back anyway

 

 

It's because most people think that victory is all about offensive.

 

To win, you have to cap, but it can only happen if your base is not captured already. So IMO, first goal is to secure your base, then you can think about capturing enemy base. There is no way you can win, if your base is captured.

 

Most people, start the game, push button to go full speed and then, go either full west or full east in a lemmings train and when in the middle of nowhere, realise that their base is being captured and they've been out raced. At this time it's too late to come back.

 

That's why I like to contribute to initial engagement, but always keep a eyes on the mini-map in order to re-position myself early to stop any fast capturing parties, I consider that defending and delaying enemies is more important that going with the rest of the guys on one side of the map and leave the zones around the base undefended.

 

Sometimes, baddies will say you're useless, because you didn't die like the rest of them, or because they think all people going on one side of the map and rolling a dice about which fleet will reach cap is good bet. In the end, you'll still contribute more to victory than them, and you can still have more kills than them anyway.

 

To sum it up, you can't win if your base is captured, so play accordingly.

 

 

 

 

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