Gyro compass aimed torpedoes

[1MajorKoenig]

 

Fellow sailors,

 

I would like to start a discussion on gyro compass aimed torpedoes with you – a topic that was on my mind for a while now. Especially while playing the Japanese cruisers from Aoba onwards I felt that something is wrong with how they are portrayed in the game. I don’t want to get into a “Realism vs Arcade” discussion here and I am well aware of game mechanics and concessions WOWS makes towards playability. However torping in an IJN cruiser feels just wrong and very much situational.

Most IJN cruisers have their torpedo tubes facing to the rear of the ship which means in game you have to turn at least to broadside if not even more to launch them. The turn itself means that you expose your vulnerable side/citadel to enemy fire and make your enemy very much aware that you are launching your torpedoes now. Alternatively you can ignore your torpedoes and use them as a defensive gimmick only when you are on the run anyway – which is what most people do currently.

 

 

What would I like to see instead?

I would like to see the possibility to aim your IJN cruiser torpedoes on a set course rather than in a straight line from your launchers. While Wikipedia is not a scientific source by any means I copy in a piece of text that describes the Type 93 gyro compass purpose: “The tail vertical rudder meter set a vertical gyrocompass to control the vertical tail rudders. The gyrocompass guided the torpedo to the target, allowing even rear-launched torpedoes to turn around and hit a target in front. The tail rudders and side stabilizers were operated by air pressure.”

I have seen in other games how this can be portrayed which pretty much means that torpedoes leave their launchers and then turn after a bit on to the set course which can even be in front of you. The Battlestations series for example modeled this mechanic in a simple but sufficient way.

 

 

What would be different?

Well, you could launch torpedoes pretty much forward – meaning while attacking. I am aware that it would make torpedoes much more useful on IJN cruisers so if need to be it could be offset by a reduction of other capabilities if these ships would become too powerful. On the other hand it could be a nice IJN cruiser line face-lift, following the recent attempts to make “old” lines attractive again in the new meta – which means deal with power creep and add something new to the line to make people play it again.

 

 

Looking forward to your thoughts on that + see you at the High Seas

 

[Shirakami_Kon]

I don't have high hopes about it but I agree it would be nice a change like that specially when IJN cruisers look so torp focused being the cruiser line with more cruisers with torps if I remember correctly.

 

Maybe that idea would make able to launch torpedos forward just like you do now, with the torp angles you have now but represent the gyro compass making the torps turn forward first before going in a straight line afterwards just like they do normally. Could be another of those "national flavours" they like so much for IJN cruisers. However as I said earlier I don't have high hopes of this idea being implemented, but I like it.

[Cpt_Andre]

The effective torpedo launcher angles are used by WG as an tuning device to balance the ships (same to turret angles). Don't believe they will change this.

[Exocet6951]

I was under the impression that the game already took that into account when calculating torpedo launcher arc.

 

I was also under the impression that while the gyro could steer the torpedo, it nowhere near as much as you said they could.

[1MajorKoenig]

I was under the impression that the game already took that into account when calculating torpedo launcher arc.

 

I was also under the impression that while the gyro could steer the torpedo, it nowhere near as much as you said they could.

 

The torpedoes launch pretty much in a straight line from the launcher so I don't think the game factors gyro compasses in.

 

Well I am not 100% sure if all angles did actually work in real life. I think I remember reading somewhere that +/- 30 degrees was no problem and the accuracy got worse the bigger the delta between launcher and Sr. Course was.

 

I mean even 30 extra degrees would be appreciated by Mogami and friends ;-)

[Shirakami_Kon]

 

The torpedoes launch pretty much in a straight line from the launcher so I don't think the game factors gyro compasses in.

 

Well I am not 100% sure if all angles did actually work in real life. I think I remember reading somewhere that +/- 30 degrees was no problem and the accuracy got worse the bigger the delta between launcher and Sr. Course was.

 

I mean even 30 extra degrees would be appreciated by Mogami and friends ;-)

 

Mogami's fine now, a realistic turret traverse was all it really needed, torps are a "problem" starting from Aoba. Even with Cleveland pre general rudder shift buff I enjoyed the Aoba more back then but it's the ship where using torps start to be a decision of angling against other cruisers and survive and play a bit more or use your torpedos and get nuked. Something like your idea would be nice because of that.

[Exocet6951]

 

The torpedoes launch pretty much in a straight line from the launcher so I don't think the game factors gyro compasses in.

 

Well I am not 100% sure if all angles did actually work in real life. I think I remember reading somewhere that +/- 30 degrees was no problem and the accuracy got worse the bigger the delta between launcher and Sr. Course was.

 

I mean even 30 extra degrees would be appreciated by Mogami and friends ;-)

 

That might just be a visual thing though, as well as one to ease server load. It's easy to calculate the heading and speed of something moving in a straight line at a given speed than it is one curving.

For one, the torpedo curving varies in speed, in a way.

Also, at short range and for someone not used to it, it would be infuriating to use torpedoes if they curve around, as well as hard to use, considering the current torpedo aiming reticle.

So having the gyro simulated by just a wider arc is a more elegant and user-friendly, albeit inaccurate solution. One which I don't mind to be honest.

 

I saw a +/- 15 degrees once, but I don't remember where, so I'll accept anything with an actual source.

So to your point, it could actually be an interesting mechanic. A consumable that increases torpedo launcher arc at the expense of "accuracy", where torpedoes might just go in an more erratic and wider fan.

Combining the elegant torpedo arc solution, with the historically accurate torpedo gyro.

[1MajorKoenig]

 

Mogami's fine now, a realistic turret traverse was all it really needed, torps are a "problem" starting from Aoba. Even with Cleveland pre general rudder shift buff I enjoyed the Aoba more back then but it's the ship where using torps start to be a decision of angling against other cruisers and survive and play a bit more or use your torpedos and get nuked. Something like your idea would be nice because of that.

 

I mean it is not just about "better" but also the wish to use torps on IJN cruiser a little more convenient/ less suicidal. 

[Tuccy]

Do not think "suicidal", think "defensive" ;)

 

In any case all torpedoes (generally) in our time period had this (that is after all how the fixed tubes were supposed to work on battleships) - theoretically US destroyers with torpedo tubes on both flanks were supposed to launch a devastating volley of 12 torpedoes straight ahead or aft (more or less) - in practice though this was not really used that much (it was used to set the spread of torpedo carpet, so adjustments of few ° as any wider maneuver would reduce already pretty low accuracy).

 

i mean it is a cool proposal and all, but we will have to see how it would play out - and increase in torpedo ability would for sure have to be accompanied by significant nerfs elsewhere. Where? Welll... Feel free to speculate and suggest!

 

 

 

 

 

[Exocet6951]

 

 

i mean it is a cool proposal and all, but we will have to see how it would play out - and increase in torpedo ability would for sure have to be accompanied by significant nerfs elsewhere. Where? Welll... Feel free to speculate and suggest!

 

 

 

I knew it, WG wants to nerf DDs some more! 

[1MajorKoenig]

I don't even think DDs would greatly benefit from such mechanics as they don't usually have a huge issue to get their fishes into the water.

 

@Tuccy: while I can only speak for myself I'd even trade a bit of alpha damage of the torpedo for the ability to fire while on the attack. Knowing other forumite ms would kill me for that I'd even trade primary gun damage potential for some more consistent and mostly more offensive and less passive torpedo damage :-)

[1MajorKoenig]

 

That might just be a visual thing though, as well as one to ease server load. It's easy to calculate the heading and speed of something moving in a straight line at a given speed than it is one curving.

For one, the torpedo curving varies in speed, in a way.

Also, at short range and for someone not used to it, it would be infuriating to use torpedoes if they curve around, as well as hard to use, considering the current torpedo aiming reticle.

So having the gyro simulated by just a wider arc is a more elegant and user-friendly, albeit inaccurate solution. One which I don't mind to be honest.

 

I saw a +/- 15 degrees once, but I don't remember where, so I'll accept anything with an actual source.

So to your point, it could actually be an interesting mechanic. A consumable that increases torpedo launcher arc at the expense of "accuracy", where torpedoes might just go in an more erratic and wider fan.

Combining the elegant torpedo arc solution, with the historically accurate torpedo gyro.

 

I asked on the Q&A if gyro angles are added and they are not. Torpedoes run in a straight line from the launchers. 

 

So yea - would still like to use torps more offensively so I still like my proposal :-)

[mtm78]

Curving torpedo's? Like, being able to shoot around an island? Gib gib gib

 

i mean it is a cool proposal and all, but we will have to see how it would play out - and increase in torpedo ability would for sure have to be accompanied by significant nerfs elsewhere. Where? Welll... Feel free to speculate and suggest!

 

I know I know I know, let's nerf Shimakaze!!! Ow wait, uhm... let's increase torpedo reload by 5%, yeah that sounds balanced for being able to banana launch torps  

[TheCinC]

I like the idea.

When the RN cruisers were introduced, I read up on their torpedoes.

They actually had a setting with which they could comb an area, maybe intended for attacking convoys.

In practice, it was never used.

 

1MajorKoenig, want me to add this one to the suggestions topic in my sig?

[1MajorKoenig]

1MajorKoenig, want me to add this one to the suggestions topic in my sig?

 

Yes please and thank you :-)

[tenacious_torps]

quoted posted rremoved

Do not go editing a quoted post to make it suit your agenda.

[Exocet6951]

 

I asked on the Q&A if gyro angles are added and they are not. Torpedoes run in a straight line from the launchers. 

 

So yea - would still like to use torps more offensively so I still like my proposal :-)

 

Yeah I saw, that is unfortunate.

I honestly thought that while the torpedoes were sent in the straight line (for simplicity's sake), some max/min angle was added to account for the gyro.

 

 

I still don't think curving torpedoes will be implemented in the near future, or at all for that matter.

But a consumable to increase firing angles at the cost of torpedo spread coherence? Completely do-able, cost effective measure that can lead to some very interesting results.

It would be lovely for the Duca d'Aosta, those torpedoes catch so many people off guard 

[1MajorKoenig]

Curving torpedo's? Like, being able to shoot around an island? Gib gib gib

 

Well... Not really aroun islands... The torpedo leaves the launcher in a straight line and than turns on a set course after a short safety distance. 

 

Your torpedo aiming reticle would have a little "curve" in the forward facing part close to your ship and would be straight beyond that.

 

However if you would be close to an island you could circle around it as far as the safety distance goes befor the torpedo turns on its set course. 

 

It would mainly be a nice thing for IJN cruisers though.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

I actually made this topic in closed beta and the proposal was flat out rejected by both WG and the community, however we might get lucky and get it this time around

 

[1MajorKoenig]

I actually made this topic in closed beta and the proposal was flat out rejected by both WG and the community, however we might get lucky and get it this time around

 

Let's try again :-)

[TheCinC]

 

Yes please and thank you :-)

 

Done.

You're welcome.

[Skyllon]

That is a great idea! I vote for zig-zag pattern ones for German DDs!

[puxflacet]

[quote name=

 

 

actually gyros are already in the game - they handle the spread of torpedos

 

That is a great idea! I vote for zig-zag pattern ones for German DDs!

they were able to do just one turn

 

...

to the proposal: indeed irl there was no limitation for torpedo's firing angle because gyros made up for physical limitations of the launcher's arc...but if this would be introduced in the game, it would open a precedent: if japanese would have this feature, why the others should not? and the firing arcs would become meaningless since every ship should be able to launch torps in every direction and it is a question if thats desirable, because you'll loose one paramater to distinguish the ships

 

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

but if this would be introduced in the game, the firing arcs would be meaningless since every ship should be able to launch torps in every direction and it is a question if thats desirable, because you'll loose one paramater to distinguish the ships

 

But that distguishing feature did not exist IRL and if introduced would improve torpedo carrying cruisers' and destroyers' survivability a bit as most wont have to show broadside when firing their torps which is the major limiting factor when deciding to use torpedos or not. I really can't see why wargaming wants it to be almost suicidal to fire torps from most ships when spotted as the main gun firepower is so great that showing the broadside is an almost guaranteed one way ticket to the port.

[Skyllon]

they were able to do just one turn

 

Yap. One left, then one right, then one left again and so on and so forth. You know - zig zag like.