Hindenburg AP damage decreased

[DevilLordAT]

Since latest patch 0.6.4 I noticed that my Hindeburg did not that much damage as before with AP, but nothing was published about this changes! So,

actually it was only announced that they want to buff the armor but nothing more. Anyone has more information?!

 

Thx

[deadly_if_swallowed]

German cruiser AP is lacking for quite some time now. Great damage potential but only on flat broadsides at relatively close ranges.

Hindenburg has become my No.1 firestarter, making me even question if I ever want a Zao.

[Wario831]

Dont feel so. It depends on your aiming and how the ship is angled.Sometimes you had 7k on BB and next volley only 825 dmg. The only weird thing is when you fight against a other Ca under 14km specially Moskwa.The dynamic of the shells go vry low. It feels you shoot with Marshmallows.

[BruceForce]

15k salvo against Yamato, it can't be that bad:

 

[Poster_2015]

Its the close range/broadside as stated before. 

 

Thing is, there is this "myth" that german AP are somewhat good.

 

Depending on tier it can work better or worse, but actually in my opinion Hindenburg has WORST AP out of all t10 cruisers.

Ill discard HIV and Mino here, 1st because i dont have it yet, 2nd because its a rather different beast. But with other 2xx caliber cruisers Hinden has:

 

- Worst penetration. Yes its actually lower then any other of those 4 nation.

- Average shell arcs, which are in a way "the worst". Zao and Moskva lasers are clearly easier to land, while Des Moines actually has the "lob over island" technique. 

- Worst shell normalization - as in "normal", not US one.

- Pretty good DPM, and highest alpha. Still, it only comes into play during brawling, due to the very low penetration.

 

This Yamato salvos , would be higher dmg, more often , if you played a Des Moines, and if the distance was higher, Zao and Moskva could easily outperform it too (not at this range though).

 

Having said that, while the AP is not that great on Hinden, I dont feel its a "fail ship". Its an excellent brawler overall:

-  it has great gun DPM at distance where the penetration doesnt feel lacking

- it has imo best torpedoes, Yes Zao has more and faster, and with more dmg - but the angles are too restricting

- as the only cruiser it has a thick turtleback armor, meaning at close range only Yamato can citadel you if you show full broadside (other german cruisers have it too thin to protect from 410 mm shells). Thats actually something many people arent aware of. I must say though, its of limited use, since your bow/stern arent so well protected, and showing broadside at close range to a BB can result with 30k hp gone WITHOUT any citadels. Still it had saved my life few times. 

 

And if you arent brawling, german HE are weak, but they are plentiful. You have 50% more shells then Zao or Moskva in the air, which compensates for their low power, and while Des Moines will outdmg/outfire you, that is only true if the skipper is a good shot with the lazy arcs . 

[ShinGetsu]

Hindenburg, the worst AP ?

 

Sure, they lack penetration. But they do massive damage to broadside target. 15-17k salvoes every 8.8s on Yamato at 15km happens regularly.

 

Hindenburg excels at two things : punishing broadside, and brawling. It's hella strong in cyclones, the 16 torps can basically kill anything thanks to those angle, and the armor scheme protect the citadel at close range.

Just the other day, I did 80k damage in the first 4 minutes of a battle : Minotaur broadside, Atago broadside, Yamato broadside. Minotaur got 4 citadel hit and sank with 25k damage on it, Atago was focused by the team, but I still got 15k damage off him with a single salvo, and Yamato went broadside while ignoring me and got shaved of 30k HP with two salvoes.

 

Hindenburg is really strong in the BB heavy meta. The only moment it struggles to do real damage is when all enemy BBs are running away angled, or just sit bow-on. Thankfully lately they all tend to yolo-broadside at long range, which is the ideal situation.

[0ddys]

Well the armorscheme only protect the area from midship to rearturrets. The frontturrets are not as well protected, because for some reason the belt lies deeper in the water and the torpedobulge also didn't rech the fronturrets for an additional 25mm protection. I really don't understand the reason behind this, it just require a look at the armorscheme to see it and I really hope some day WG will correct this...

[Poster_2015]

Sure, they lack penetration. But they do massive damage to broadside target. 15-17k salvoes every 8.8s on Yamato at 15km happens regularly.

 

Except EVERY t10 cruiser salvo does 15-17k on a broadside Yamato. Well not Minotaur (but it makes up with speed) but all other cruisers. Remember that all t10 guns are vastly upgraded over t8 ones, EXCEPT for Hindenburg, that gets Hipper guns just with more reload speed/number. 

[ShinGetsu]

 

Except EVERY t10 cruiser salvo does 15-17k on a broadside Yamato. Well not Minotaur (but it makes up with speed) but all other cruisers. Remember that all t10 guns are vastly upgraded over t8 ones, EXCEPT for Hindenburg, that gets Hipper guns just with more reload speed/number. 

 

And I still think Hindenburg is totally fine because you get MUCH MORE opportunity to uses those AP than in any other cruisers. You can play Hindenburg very agressively. Even in situation that would be suicide for any other cruisers.

And Hinden got better AP damage too, it's almost 2k per penetration, so you actually do more damage with those 203 than any other 203-cruisers on broadside BBs.

 

The penetration is more than enough. You think they are "the worst tier 10 AP", and in term of penetration, that's true. In term of damage, nope. In term of punishing broadside, nope².

[Poster_2015]

 

And I still think Hindenburg is totally fine because you get MUCH MORE opportunity to uses those AP than in any other cruisers. You can play Hindenburg very agressively. Even in situation that would be suicide for any other cruisers.

 

And thats exactly what I said - so please read whole post . I dont have a problem with Hindenburg in general. 

 

And Hinden got better AP damage too, it's almost 2k per penetration, so you actually do more damage with those 203 than any other 203-cruisers on broadside BBs.

 

Dont make it sound like its 2k more It basically deals 20% more then US AP, and 10% more then Japanese/Russian.

 

It has 10% more damage on broadsides then Zao, which has DD level dispersion, faster shells, and better penetration - which means even in ideal conditions (broadside close range), Zao will probably do MORE damage per salvo. Now given the reload time ofc Hindenburg gets to repeat it 4.5 sec earlier, but honestly I havent usually had occasions to have perfect broadsides for multiple salvos that often. usually its one shot then they angle. 

 

Des Moines Salvo is definitely weaker then Hindenburg, but the vast penetration increase makes it way easier to score citadels and devastating hits - assuming you can aim.

 

Moskva definitely will lag in both DPM and alpha, but its strength is more in long distance fights.

 

The penetration is more than enough. You think they are "the worst tier 10 AP", and in term of penetration, that's true. In term of damage, nope. In term of punishing broadside, nope².

 

The GUNS/AP Shells are worst at tier 10. I covered the damage above. In terms of punishing broadsides, I think Des Moines is way more dangerous. Still the whole ship might be not.

 

However actually I do think Hindenburg is worst tier 10 cruiser (name a worse one if you disagree ), but thats only because there HAS to be a "worst t10 cruiser". Its not considerably behind other t10s, I find it pretty enjoyable to play, and if its 5% behind others in effectiveness, well i can live with that. 

[ShinGetsu]

However actually I do think Hindenburg is worst tier 10 cruiser (name a worse one if you disagree ), but thats only because there HAS to be a "worst t10 cruiser". Its not considerably behind other t10s, I find it pretty enjoyable to play, and if its 5% behind others in effectiveness, well i can live with that. 

 

I only have Moskva to compare at the moment, and I only tried Zao and DM on PTS.

Not counting Minotaur because it's too different.

 

DM is a beast when you can get close, it's very brutal, and in those conditions, I think no other cruiser can match it (if they can't use the torps). Zao is... well, Zao. Flamethrower with good torps and awesome concealment. However it kind of lack impact in the game.

 

However, right now, I find Moskva both more difficult to play and less powerful in the current BB-DD meta. I won't say Moskva is a bad ship, cause that's obviously wrong, but Hinden being weaker than Moskva... no, not really.

As for Henri IV, it's a quicker but less armored Moskva with guns that punch through any armor and deck with its HE penetration. 

 

Hindenburg allows me to get insane scores really easily. The other day on the North map I pushed through C in a suicide rush against a Minotaur and an Izumo, torped the full HP Izumo and crippled the Minotaur my teammates sank right after. I died, of course, but it was a move so agressive my team actually followed it and encircled the whole A/B groups of the enemy team and made quick work of them.

And only Hindenburg can do that.

 

On my end, it's actually the best tier 10 cruiser. You can carry a team through agressive move only it can do.

 

Hindenburg is dangerous against CA because a single mistakes is at least a 30k salvo

It's dangerous agaisnt CV because it has the third or fourth best CA AA (DM and Minotaur are miles ahead, but the match is close with Henri IV depending if you consider only the AA DPS, or the facts Henri have only long-range AA with a bit less DPS)

It's dangerous against DDs because the hydro spots them and the 4x3 guns with high rof and high velocity kills them very easily

And most of all, it's dangerous against BB because at close range they tend to overpen over the citadel, the 16 torps with very good angle are deadly, it can bow-tank 380mm and less (and there's soooo many Tirpitzes and Bismarck lately), and the guns may lack penetration, but the issue resolves itself when it sees a broadside or play at close range.

 

 

I agree with your opinion on something tho : the difference of efficiency between all tier 10 cruisers is quite thin. But IMO Hinden is a bit ahead.^^

[Poster_2015]

I disagree with your assessment of Zao as "lacking impact". If you only play it as flamethrower then sure, it CAN (but doesnt have to) lack impact. However Zao has amazing APs as well, "trollish" (meh i kinda dislike calling just good armor trollish, but it gets the point across i guess) armor, and insane damage torps. Drawbacks are poor torpedoe angles - but its something which everybody seems oblivious to - swing your hull a bit when close with a BB and they will panic thinking you shot torps as well as rather bad turret traverse (not really much worse then DM though). Still as much as i pretty much always start the match by long range firestarting with Zao, I always look for an opportunity to close up. 

[anonym_JA3IrCwXK7hq]

On ‎24‎.‎04‎.‎2017 at 6:36 PM, DevilLordAT said:

Since latest patch 0.6.4 I noticed that my Hindeburg did not that much damage as before with AP, but nothing was published about this changes! So,

actually it was only announced that they want to buff the armor but nothing more. Anyone has more information?!

 

Thx

I experienced it also. Now the Hindenburg is just like a paper ship and almost unplayable. It was such a good ship. Where i made good hits before with some good citadelle hits from time to time, i made none since update. Even with a full hit with all guns fired i only make 1050 points. Sometimes but not higher than 5000. It is a pure joke now!

[principat121]

Whine Lord Fr8gment strikes again.

 

Just don't listen to this liar (and grave digger). He is just a special (german) snowflake seeking for attention. As he didn't get it in his german thread today, he tries to get his asz powdered here. He is boasting that his average damage with the Hindenburg is normaly between 120,000 and 180,000. His hidden stats have an old copy and just judge by yourself if you want to believe this troll or not.

[ollonborre]

My Hindenburg is working just fine. AP pen angles is awful as they always have been but the DPM is still fantastic on broadside targets. And as for it beeing made of paper all of the sudden because someone "feels it" is laughable. It is still very durable for a cruiser and tricky to citadel at closer ranges.

[El2aZeR]

[piritskenyer]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

I was waiting for that. Patiently waiting.

[Exocet6951]

9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

[principat121]

How rude!

[dasCKD]

1 hour ago, Fr8gment said:

I experienced it also. Now the Hindenburg is just like a paper ship and almost unplayable. It was such a good ship. Where i made good hits before with some good citadelle hits from time to time, i made none since update. Even with a full hit with all guns fired i only make 1050 points. Sometimes but not higher than 5000. It is a pure joke now!

Seems to work fine for me, this was a game I played about  an hour ago.. The thing you need to understand is that having the damage per salvo fluctuate like that is perfectly normal in the Hindy. She has the lowest AP penetration of any of the heavy cruisers at tier X which means that the AP will need to hit a softer plate to do full damage. To get the most out of your Hindenburg, you will need to know how to aim for weak spots and how to judge the turns of enemy ships. As far as I can see, the ship has not changed since the patch. She's the same old monstrosity she's always been.

[piritskenyer]

15 hours ago, dasCKD said:

Seems to work fine for me, this was a game I played about  an hour ago.. The thing you need to understand is that having the damage per salvo fluctuate like that is perfectly normal in the Hindy. She has the lowest AP penetration of any of the heavy cruisers at tier X which means that the AP will need to hit a softer plate to do full damage. To get the most out of your Hindenburg, you will need to know how to aim for weak spots and how to judge the turns of enemy ships. As far as I can see, the ship has not changed since the patch. She's the same old monstrosity she's always been.

 

How dare you say it has the lowest penetration! It is a german gun and therefore MUST be the best in its class! Any other assumption is just preposterous! German guns are the best, everyone knows that! 

 

/s

[dasCKD]

3 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

How dare you say it has the lowest penetration! It is a german gun and therefore MUST be the best in its class! Any other assumption is just preposterous! German guns are the best, everyone knows that! 

In all seriousness, I would love it if the Hindenburg's guns were buffed to the point where they would perform more like the Des Moines's or Zao's guns but then I also realize that the change would make an already strong ship, best in class in my opinion, grievously overpowered. She's fine as she is really @Fr8gment, just fire HE more often and save the AP for special circumstances and you'll be fine.

[Jagod]

My guess is the bad reputation is caused by people only looking at the AP alpha and using it as their default shell for most situations and occasionally switching to HE instead of the other way around. I am on Hipper right now (which has the same guns) and find those guns really fun to use and giving me quite pleasant results.

[piritskenyer]

4 minutes ago, dasCKD said:

In all seriousness, I would love it if the Hindenburg's guns were buffed to the point where they would perform more like the Des Moines's or Zao's guns but then I also realize that the change would make an already strong ship, best in class in my opinion, grievously overpowered. She's fine as she is really @Fr8gment, just fire HE more often and save the AP for special circumstances and you'll be fine.

 

Well, the gun has the best in calibre class AP damage, with higher pen that gun would probably be too powerful. 

[Cyclops_]

On 10/02/2018 at 7:00 PM, Fr8gment said:

I experienced it also. Now the Hindenburg is just like a paper ship and almost unplayable. It was such a good ship. Where i made good hits before with some good citadelle hits from time to time, i made none since update. Even with a full hit with all guns fired i only make 1050 points. Sometimes but not higher than 5000. It is a pure joke now!

Really, you obviously do not play RN CL’s !!!!!!