British Tier VII Premium Battleship Idea

[mr3awsome]

In the late 1920s, with the end of the battleship building holiday looming, the assorted nations prepared designs to be produced should the London Conference not bear any fruit. This was distinctly possible, as the 1927 Geneva Conference had ended without any agreement.

 

Designed in 1929, armed with 16” guns and the first designs to that end, it had the rather mundane, if practical name of “Battleship 1929 16A”.

 

Design Statistics:

 

Dimensions: 692ft x 106ft x 30ft

Tonnage: 35,000t (standard)

Powerplant: 45,000shp

Speed: 23 knots

Main armament: 4 x II 16”/45 Mk I

Secondary armament: 6 x II BL 6”/50 Mk XXII

                                    4 x II 4.7” BD

Anti-aircraft armament: 4 x II 4.7” BD

                                       6 x VIII 2pdr Mk VIII

Armour: 13” belt abreast magazines, 11” belt abreast machinery

               6.25” deck over magazines, 4.25” over machinery

Aviation: 1 catapult, 1 aircraft.

 

Images:

 

 

 

 

It’s a pretty solid tier VII design. However, the stern mounted catapult was tested on HMS Hood, but proved to be unsatisfactory, and is unlikely to be present in the suggested configuration. Furthermore the 4.7” BD twins were never realised. This means there a several options available:

-  4 x I QF 4.7”/40 Mk VIII on mount HA Mk XII-

-  4 x II QF 4”/45 Mk XV on mount Mk XVII

-  4 x II QF 4”/45 Mk XVI on mount Mk XIX

            -  4 x II QF 4.5”/45 Mk I on mount Mk III UD

Whilst the 2^nd option is the closest, spiritually, to the proposed mount, it proved to be a failure, and those mounts that were tested at sea were replaced with the 3^rd option listed. To that end, I feel like that is the most likely option.

 

Proposed In-Game Stats:

 

General:

Spoiler

Health: 57750

Purchase Price: 10,000 Dubloons

Citadel armour: 59mm-140mm

Gun Casemate armour: 25mm

Armoured Deck: 25mm-159mm

Forward & After Ends armour: 25mm

 

Main Battery:

4 x II 406mm/45 Mk I

2 rpm, 4°/s traverse speed

Unknown Range & Dispersion

5400 HE dmg with a 33% fire chance, 797 mps MV

12000 AP dmg, 797 mps MV

 

Secondary Battery:

         6 x II BL 152mm/50 Mk XXII

5rpm, out to 5.0km

2100 dmg (HE) with 9% fire chance, 898mps MV    

        4 x II QF 102mm/45 Mk XVI

20rpm, out to 5.0km

1,500 dmg (HE) with 6% fire chance, 811mps MV

 

Anti-Aircraft Battery:

            4 x II QF 102mm/45 Mk XVI on mount Mk XIX

 37.6dps @ 5.0km

            6 x VIII 2pdr Mk VIII on mount Mk VI

118.8dps @ 2.5km

            18 x I 20mm Oerlikon on mount Mk III

64.8 dps @ 2.0km

 

Manoeuvrability:

Speed: 23kts

Turning Circle Radius: ?

Rudder Shift Time: ?

 

Concealment:

Surface Detectability Range: ?

Air Detectability Range: ?

 

Battle Levels:

7, 8 & 9

 

Would you buy it?

What should it be called?

[Hateshinaku]

In the late 1920s, with the end of the battleship building holiday looming, the assorted nations prepared designs to be produced should the London Conference not bear any fruit. This was distinctly possible, as the 1927 Geneva Conference had ended without any agreement.

 

Designed in 1929, armed with 16” guns and the first designs to that end, it had the rather mundane, if practical name of “Battleship 1929 16A”.

 

Design Statistics:

 

Dimensions: 692ft x 106ft x 30ft

Tonnage: 35,000t (standard)

Powerplant: 45,000shp

Speed: 23 knots

Main armament: 4 x II 16”/45 Mk I

Secondary armament: 6 x II BL 6”/50 Mk XXII

                                    4 x II 4.7” BD

Anti-aircraft armament: 4 x II 4.7” BD

                                       6 x VIII 2pdr Mk VIII

Armour: 13” belt abreast magazines, 11” belt abreast machinery

               6.25” deck over magazines, 4.25” over machinery

Aviation: 1 catapult, 1 aircraft.

 

Images:

 

 

 

 

It’s a pretty solid tier VII design. However, the stern mounted catapult was tested on HMS Hood, but proved to be unsatisfactory, and is unlikely to be present in the suggested configuration. Furthermore the 4.7” BD twins were never realised. This means there a several options available:

-  4 x I QF 4.7”/40 Mk VIII on mount HA Mk XII-

-  4 x II QF 4”/45 Mk XV on mount Mk XVII

-  4 x II QF 4”/45 Mk XVI on mount Mk XIX

            -  4 x II QF 4.5”/45 Mk I on mount Mk III UD

Whilst the 2^nd option is the closest, spiritually, to the proposed mount, it proved to be a failure, and those mounts that were tested at sea were replaced with the 3^rd option listed. To that end, I feel like that is the most likely option.

 

Proposed In-Game Stats:

 

General:

Spoiler

Health: 57750

Purchase Price: 10,000 Dubloons

Citadel armour: 59mm-140mm

Gun Casemate armour: 25mm

Armoured Deck: 25mm-159mm

Forward & After Ends armour: 25mm

 

Main Battery:

4 x II 406mm/45 Mk I

2 rpm, 4°/s traverse speed

Unknown Range & Dispersion

5400 HE dmg with a 33% fire chance, 797 mps MV

12000 AP dmg, 797 mps MV

 

Secondary Battery:

         6 x II BL 152mm/50 Mk XXII

5rpm, out to 5.0km

2100 dmg (HE) with 9% fire chance, 898mps MV    

        4 x II QF 102mm/45 Mk XVI

20rpm, out to 5.0km

1,500 dmg (HE) with 6% fire chance, 811mps MV

 

Anti-Aircraft Battery:

            4 x II QF 102mm/45 Mk XVI on mount Mk XIX

 37.6dps @ 5.0km

            6 x VIII 2pdr Mk VIII on mount Mk VI

118.8dps @ 2.5km

            18 x I 20mm Oerlikon on mount Mk III

64.8 dps @ 2.0km

 

Manoeuvrability:

Speed: 23kts

Turning Circle Radius: ?

Rudder Shift Time: ?

 

Concealment:

Surface Detectability Range: ?

Air Detectability Range: ?

 

Battle Levels:

7, 8 & 9

 

Would you buy it?

What should it be called?

 

Well, I don´t know about that since i prefer ships that have some kind of history :I

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Isn't there enough real RN BB to fill everything up to T8 quite easily... No need for paper until the top tier(s).

[Capra76]

What should it be called?

 

The date of design puts it between Hood and Rodney/Nelson, so another admiral seems appropriate.

[Tyrendian89]

Isn't there enough real RN BB to fill everything up to T8 quite easily... No need for paper until the top tier(s).

 

and this doesn't look all that interesting either compared to NelRod that we're pretty likely to see for T7...

[EdiJo]

T5-T6 could be Renown/Repulse (depending on refit stage)

T7 could be just re-fitted version of the Nelson. 

T8 - KGV class

only T9-T10 would be of paper, because this was the stage when BB production was stopped in the UK.

 

I'm still not sure whether Hood should be T6 or T7... We'll see how she will work ;)

[Trainspite]

Isn't there enough real RN BB to fill everything up to T8 quite easily... No need for paper until the top tier(s).

 

There is a reason why it is a premium idea. ;)

 

The RN has plenty of RN BB premium candidates that were built, augmented by Hood, which I see as unnecessary. However I would think that excluding the designs would be a mistake, given how unique some of them are. Ishizuchi is an example of being chose as a premium BB/BC because she is unique. (And she is not OP at all now because needless buffing). 

 

(By RN Designs, I am referencing stuff like this, and the inter war Mini-Nelsons (14" or 12"), 4x 2 14", F3/BC Nelson etc.) 

 

As for the design in question, it would be a nice alternative to Nelson, having a more conventional layout, although I'm not sure about the chances of it appearing when compared with potential tier 7 premiums, like Rodney, nerfed PoW, and of course the incoming Hood. And for names, going off my own RN tech tree, and using a name not used, I would pick something from a pre-dreadnought, although an Admiral name is probably more historic, but there are only so many Admiral names about, and having High tier CAs, as well as mid-high tier BB/BCs kind of exhausts the name pool, and makes it a bit generic. Something like Venerable, Bulwark, Resistance, Formidable or even Mars takes my fancy.

[VC381]

No, I would rather see a G3 battlecruiser as a T8 premium.

[22cm]

Well, it is going to be Hood, no?

[creamgravy]

Well, it is going to be Hood, no?

 

Hood and Rodney are 'shoe in' T7 premiums but I wouldn't mind seeing this design somewhere. 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

An interesting ship, but there are two limiting factors which would stop me reaching for my wallet:

1) The Royal Navy has more than enough interesting real life ships to choose from.

2) I am extremely nervous about how the RN battleships will be implemented in WoWS.

Hood looks fairly conventional, but the others may be a bunch of highly effective but "high skill ceiling" freaks like the cruisers for all I know.

 

Don't forget that HMS Belfast is not typical of the rest of the cruisers.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I'd personally love a difficult to play line as I find the German BB line down right boring now. Got a Bismarck/Scharn captain to 17 points and the Tirp one to 17 which is no longer needed due to the rise of Tirpmarck.

 

Although if RN BB are too hard to use I can see the whine here being unbearable 

[VC381]

I find the thematic style of the cruisers very fitting. The RN may have had a global numerical advantage but they prioritised quantity of smaller ships especially in cruiser construction and were the underdog on a ship for ship basis in a few engagements, relying on superior tactics and training to win rather than raw ship power. That they are quirky and high skill cap but very effective in game ties in to this perfectly in my mind.

 

That mentality doesn't quite work with BBs, where the RN often took pride in being ahead of the curve in the newest and best designs (although arguably not the case by WWII). I would hope that at least something from the two premiums (accuracy and/or the better repair) makes it into the national flavour.

[22cm]

I'd personally love a difficult to play line as I find the German BB line down right boring now. Got a Bismarck/Scharn captain to 17 points and the Tirp one to 17 which is no longer needed due to the rise of Tirpmarck.

 

Although if RN BB are too hard to use I can see the whine here being unbearable 

 

WG did indeed foch up the UK cruisers, made them a bastard of BBs (AP only and heal), DD (smoke), and Nunberg (citadels).  Quite a gangbang, i d say.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

I find the thematic style of the cruisers very fitting. The RN may have had a global numerical advantage but they prioritised quantity of smaller ships especially in cruiser construction and were the underdog on a ship for ship basis in a few engagements, relying on superior tactics and training to win rather than raw ship power. That they are quirky and high skill cap but very effective in game ties in to this perfectly in my mind.

 

Wargaming gave them smoke as part of the "balancing". It is obviously intended that it should be used, and numerous famous commentators advise getting the "Superintendent" skill so that you can get more smokes.

 

We will have to agree to differ, but I don't find ships where a significant portion of the time is spent hiding in smoke to be in the true spirit of the Royal Navy. ( I presume that you are British and that you know what I am talking about )  in fact, it is 100% contrary to the spirit IMHO.

 

My fear is that the British battleships will be "quirky" as you call it . I never played World of Tanks but I've seen other posters on this forum say that British things in that can be......"unique".

[Unintentional_submarine]

Based on those drawings she would have been a bigger and more powerful Warspite. Or maybe closer to Vanguard. 

 

Honestly she doesn't seem special enough. I mean Warspite at T6 and Vanguard is likely to be a premium too (unless WG decides to make multiple BB lines, which atm and at best looks extremely far into the future). The same style of premium battleships for one nation in three closely tiered ships? 

 

Interesting that there is that design, I honestly never knew about it.

[TheCinC]

Sorry, as much as I love the RN and battleships, a paper design does nothing for me.

I actively avoid all ships that were never completed, although I have made an exception for USS Montana and will make one for HMS Lion (the WW2 era one, original 1939 design).

Other than that, aside from PTS, I have never bothered getting or playing any of them.

It just seems odd to me that the top tiers are overrun by designs that often never made it off the drawing board, I'd be much happier if there was an option to turn them off, or if they didn't exist in the first place.

To me, it is a lot less fun to fight a ship that never existed, especially when that ship has stats that are (borderline) OP, or at least better than historical designs.

Moreover, with all missions requiring either tier IV+ or tier VIII+ I often find myself forced into the tier VIII-X bracket, so I'd much prefer a tier VIII premium.

A KGV would do nicely.

That said, sauce?

[VC381]

 

Wargaming gave them smoke as part of the "balancing". It is obviously intended that it should be used, and numerous famous commentators advise getting the "Superintendent" skill so that you can get more smokes.

 

We will have to agree to differ, but I don't find ships where a significant portion of the time is spent hiding in smoke to be in the true spirit of the Royal Navy. ( I presume that you are British and that you know what I am talking about )  in fact, it is 100% contrary to the spirit IMHO.

 

My fear is that the British battleships will be "quirky" as you call it . I never played World of Tanks but I've seen other posters on this forum say that British things in that can be......"unique".

 

I am and I can see why you would think that smoke play goes against the spirit of aggression I assume you're referring to. But considering that these ships work best in close quarters and they have multiple tools aside from smoke that facilitate that (and even when smoking up require aggressive positioning to be really useful) I would still say they fit the bill. I definitely play mine to the spirit of "engage the enemy more closely" and I find it both thrilling and effective. Of course we can agree to disagree

[Pivke]

you get the hood premium tier 7... is that not enough for you?

[Blitzkrieguk]

I think this would be a solid premium

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Incomparable

 

[woodyudet_17]

T5-T6 could be Renown/Repulse (depending on refit stage)

T7 could be just re-fitted version of the Nelson. 

T8 - KGV class

only T9-T10 would be of paper, because this was the stage when BB production was stopped in the UK.

 

I'm still not sure whether Hood should be T6 or T7... We'll see how she will work ;)

Not sure t9 needs to be paper - could be a KGV with it's intended armament...

[txtspeak]

you get the hood premium tier 7... is that not enough for you?

 

yes.

we got Hood as premium tier 7, Nelson as tech tree tier 7, KGV as tech tree tier 8 and PoW or possibly Iron duke (I think thats the one, might be duke of york. it involved a duke ) as premium tier 8

we're all set for that era

[mr3awsome]

The date of design puts it between Hood and Rodney/Nelson, so another admiral seems appropriate.

Actually its from 1929, so it post dates both of them, fitting between Nelson & King George V. 

 

Isn't there enough real RN BB to fill everything up to T8 quite easily... No need for paper until the top tier(s).

For the regular line(s), I think theres something like two paper ships in three lines below tier VIII. 

Premiums offer a host of opportunity outside that. 

 

Based on those drawings she would have been a bigger and more powerful Warspite. Or maybe closer to Vanguard. 

 

Honestly she doesn't seem special enough. I mean Warspite at T6 and Vanguard is likely to be a premium too (unless WG decides to make multiple BB lines, which atm and at best looks extremely far into the future). The same style of premium battleships for one nation in three closely tiered ships? 

Vanguard is unlikely to be a regular. 

 

That said, sauce?

Its referenced in both D.K. Brown's Nelson to Vanguard and Norman Friedman's The British Battleship. 

 

you get the hood premium tier 7... is that not enough for you?

The world is not enough. 

 

Not sure t9 needs to be paper - could be a KGV with it's intended armament...

No. 

[Trainspite]

Not sure t9 needs to be paper - could be a KGV with it's intended armament...

 

That is still paper though.

[tajj7]

I don't think at the moment any nation needs multiple premiums at the same tier of the same class.

 

So I'd rather see a tier 8 British BB premium, not another tier 7.  I think Vanguard should be that ship.