Limiting number of BBs in a game to three max per team.

[VigilanteMerc]

Hello,

 

I think limiting BBs to maybe two to there per team will help make the game a lot more interesting.

 

A. I think it allows BBs to be kept strong vs cruisers (as they are historically vs cruisers) whilst meaning a BB cant just yolo rush cruisers as they will be outnumbered.

B. It allows for more DDs in a game to counter the BBs.

C. It makes BBs fell more impactful imo, these are expensive and costly capital ships that where deployed sparingly. At the moment they just feel like large cruisers with big guns due to the amount of players.  

 

Imo the game balance needs adjustment aswell One cruiser shouldn't be able to kill a competent BB on there own (unless they outplay them massively anyhow) , two or more should be able to %50-80 of the time though (which imo currently doesn't happen, a BB can wreck cruisers for days). CVs need buffs in order to counter BBs, with more rewards for defending team mates with fighters in order to stop BB rage. Cruisers should get rewards as AA escorts as well. DDs need buffs aswell, although i have no idea now to fix them tbh.

 

I also think you should get a 4%-5% XP reward for killing ships when in range (say 100-500M) of 2 or more friendlies, excluding platoon mates. Would encourage more team work maybe?

 

In an ideal world (for me anyhow I'm not going to say this isn't subjective) a team list would look like this

1-2 CVs (if 2 only 2 BBs)

2-3 BBs (if 2 CVs only 2 BBs)

4-5 CA/CLs(depending on number of DDs)

3-4 DDs (depending on number of cruisers

 

If there are no CVs in a team then the maximum amount of BBs is still 3 with the slot being taken by an extra cruiser or destroyer.

 

Anyhow just some ideas.

 

Disclaimer: Just a heads up, my highest tier ship is 7 so i base most of my opinion of high tier balance off youtube videos. So what i am saying could be complete bollocks tbh. But the game really does need balance changes for BBs somewhere. They're too common atm nothing else can really hard counter them atm. Every other class has a counter , Cruisers have BBs, DDs have CL/CAs but BBs currently are too strong in every category.     

 

 

   

[Egoleter]

All ships are supposed to be equally relevant, so a perfect match (excluding carriers) would have 4 BBs, CAs/CLs, and DDs per side.

 

Why make the limit even harder by connecting it to carriers present?

 

I'm all for reducing the amount total BBs played (which is suppesedly at ~40 % right now) to more normal numbers but your suggestion will just hurt them hard. Balance changes should not come by halfing their currently played numbers in game. They need to come by addressing a few other things. First of them is BBs being to easy to be played in comparison to all other classes.

[Moorleiche2k]

Nooo. I just recently got my Ryujo, endured the T4-5 hell of no ALT-Attacks just to rip these pesky BB's apart!!! And it works!!! So dont take away my victims...

 

Well, seriously. Though i agree, this is utopia. This game is called World of Battleships and no longer World of Warships. I shifted from cruiser to (Torp)DD's, then to Gunboats (Russian) just to understand that my RTS experience / training is best used with CV's to counter the BB-flood. And its fun to see BB-Kevins panic when my planes get into sight. At that point they are forced to move out of their comfort zone behind rocks.

[ColonelPete]

Hello,

 

I think limiting BBs to maybe two to there per team will help make the game a lot more interesting.

 

A. I think it allows BBs to be kept strong vs cruisers (as they are historically vs cruisers) whilst meaning a BB cant just yolo rush cruisers as they will be outnumbered.

B. It allows for more DDs in a game to counter the BBs.

C. It makes BBs fell more impactful imo, these are expensive and costly capital ships that where deployed sparingly. At the moment they just feel like large cruisers with big guns due to the amount of players.  

 

Imo the game balance needs adjustment aswell One cruiser shouldn't be able to kill a competent BB on there own (unless they outplay them massively anyhow) , two or more should be able to %50-80 of the time though (which imo currently doesn't happen, a BB can wreck cruisers for days). CVs need buffs in order to counter BBs, with more rewards for defending team mates with fighters in order to stop BB rage. Cruisers should get rewards as AA escorts as well. DDs need buffs aswell, although i have no idea now to fix them tbh.

 

I also think you should get a 4%-5% XP reward for killing ships when in range (say 100-500M) of 2 or more friendlies, excluding platoon mates. Would encourage more team work maybe?

 

In an ideal world (for me anyhow I'm not going to say this isn't subjective) a team list would look like this

1-2 CVs (if 2 only 2 BBs)

2-3 BBs (if 2 CVs only 2 BBs)

4-5 CA/CLs(depending on number of DDs)

3-4 DDs (depending on number of cruisers

 

If there are no CVs in a team then the maximum amount of BBs is still 3 with the slot being taken by an extra cruiser or destroyer.

 

Anyhow just some ideas.

 

Disclaimer: Just a heads up, my highest tier ship is 7 so i base most of my opinion of high tier balance off youtube videos. So what i am saying could be complete bollocks tbh. But the game really does need balance changes for BBs somewhere. They're too common atm nothing else can really hard counter them atm. Every other class has a counter , Cruisers have BBs, DDs have CL/CAs but BBs currently are too strong in every category.     

 

 

   

 

As said again and again: Limiting the number of ships will not solve the problem.

There is a reason why that many players play BB. Take a look at that. Change the attractiveness and the BB numbers will go down.

[Krikkio82]

I disagree in part. The solution IMO is NERF THE BATTLESHIPS IT'S ABOUT FU**ING TIME WG. Germans as 1st.

 

If they will not do it (looks they will not) the solution could be limit they numbers in game yes.

[P2Win]

Why would they nerf battleships? Battleships are the core of any team. An easier fix, remove DD. Tired of seeing 5 per team.

[VigilanteMerc]

All ships are supposed to be equally relevant, so a perfect match (excluding carriers) would have 4 BBs, CAs/CLs, and DDs per side.

 

Why make the limit even harder by connecting it to carriers present?

 

I'm all for reducing the amount total BBs played (which is suppesedly at ~40 % right now) to more normal numbers but your suggestion will just hurt them hard. Balance changes should not come by halfing their currently played numbers in game. They need to come by addressing a few other things. First of them is BBs being to easy to be played in comparison to all other classes.

But the ships are already not equally relevant. CVs are already limited. And to be perfectly honest from a historical standpoint they weren't. CVs upended the BBs dominance as the ruler of the waves. That should be shown in game imo. As should the fact that BBs where hard to take down unless you had a CV , another BB or out numbered them (with some leeway for game play, as mentioned above think two cruisers should have a good chance to kill one BB). BBs should be strong yet vulnerable. Otherwise you end up with a circle jerk of nerfs that always occurs when you nerf one thing suddenly something else becomes OP and they nerf that. Still its all subjective, i still think a better way to go about it is to limit the number of BBs and then do minor nerfs to make them easier to kill for DDs and CVs.    

[22cm]

Why would they nerf battleships? Battleships are the core of any team. An easier fix, remove DD. Tired of seeing 5 per team.

 

Lol, smart answer. With 5-6 BBs per team, it s not worth playing cruisers anymore.

[mtm78]

All ships are supposed to be equally relevant, so a perfect match (excluding carriers) would have 4 BBs, CAs/CLs, and DDs per side.

 

Why make the limit even harder by connecting it to carriers present?

 

I'm all for reducing the amount total BBs played (which is suppesedly at ~40 % right now) to more normal numbers but your suggestion will just hurt them hard. Balance changes should not come by halfing their currently played numbers in game. They need to come by addressing a few other things. First of them is BBs being to easy to be played in comparison to all other classes.

 

"Supposedly" L O L

 

First time I see ST denying WG's own numbers 

 

edit:

 

And BB's to easy to play? Is that 'universal', does it include top tiers? Really? 

 

The problem doesn't come from easy or hard to play, it started with German BB's being so popular in EU ( other regions DO NOT have the overpopulation issue ) and that caused BB population to reach critical mass ( playing cruisers in BB heavy meta isn't fun for most people -> let's go play BB's instead ). 

 

This just proofs that class imbalance should be fixed with MM limits, just like they did with CV's. 

[P2Win]

 

Lol, smart answer. With 5-6 BBs per team, it s not worth playing cruisers anymore.

 

Lol, There will always be room for hindi,moskva and desmoines. Cruisers are still very important if they would play their roles. If you limit the number of BB then the damage saturation will also go down. Since DD/CV play a more vital role, those should be limited first.

[22cm]

I would do it like this: 

Heavy ships: 4 - CV + BB

Medium ships: 4 - CA + CL

Light ships: 4 - DDs.

 

In real life, the DDs were the most numerous, then cruisers.

[mtm78]

 

Lol, There will always be room for hindi,moskva and desmoines. Cruisers are still very important if they would play their roles. If you limit the number of BB then the damage saturation will also go down. Since DD/CV play a more vital role, those should be limited first.

 

Bull, DD population is natural result of BB overpopulation, cruisers not attractive, so play either torpedo boats to flood the BBabies or play cruisers without citadels aka Khaba. Limit BB, and people play more cruisers, people play more cruisers and DD's become less attractive .

 

edit: not to mention that BB numbers are 100% absolute, DD numbers are not. A Shima is a DD, but it's a whole different ship then a  Khaba. 

[anonym_UgMNTuWYVfiQ]

i don't mind a game with 5, or more, BB's. The thing is that I have TO MANY battles with 5 or more BB's. It's like 1 out of 2 has this kind of setup. I would like more variation  in the team builds. Like teams with only 1 or no BB's would be nice from time to time. The keyword would be VARIATIONS.

 

You could solve the BB question with teams with only BB's.12 BB's against 12 BB's. And that at a ratio of 1 out of 2 games for BB-captains.

[Vaderan]

But the ships are already not equally relevant. CVs are already limited. And to be perfectly honest from a historical standpoint they weren't. CVs upended the BBs dominance as the ruler of the waves. That should be shown in game imo. As should the fact that BBs where hard to take down unless you had a CV , another BB or out numbered them (with some leeway for game play, as mentioned above think two cruisers should have a good chance to kill one BB). BBs should be strong yet vulnerable. Otherwise you end up with a circle jerk of nerfs that always occurs when you nerf one thing suddenly something else becomes OP and they nerf that. Still its all subjective, i still think a better way to go about it is to limit the number of BBs and then do minor nerfs to make them easier to kill for DDs and CVs.    

 

Many bad things happen from best intentions. You want a positive change, but come with ideas which are not completly thought through.

CVs, by far, are the most powerfull class in the game. Already. They are the last class within this came, which truly depends more on skill than everything else. This is, why maybe 80% ov CV players (including me) have no clue or just suck, when playing them. This is, by the way, the only reason, why complains about CVs are relativly calm these days, compared to other complaints and whines. Those who know CVs, enjoy them. Those, who suck with them, complain or blame it on other things.

It´s probably the same with BBs. The basics for BBs are easy to learn, even more easy than those required for CVs. That´s one aspect, why BBs are so popular. Another aspect of BBs is their iconic status. You may have some iconic cruisers, DDs or CVs aswell, but most legends and cool stories are around BB, that´s why everybody wants to play them.

 

BBs, as we have them in the game right now, are annoying for two reasons: the numbers they show up in almost any match, and the way they are played.

Cruisers players and some of the bad DD players will of course also complain about OP BBs wrecking them, but if you would investigate their stories and claims, you would find out, that the reason of their quick death was bad play by them.

 

If we go with the limitation of BBs to 2-3 per side, lets try to think this through. What would happen? Would it stop BB-Kevins play their BBs? No! They would still prefer their BBs over all other classes, regardless the increased waiting times for a match. Those players, dedicated to BBs, won´t switch to CAs or DDs aswell. The opposite would be the case. Knowing that they will have to face less of their own class, combined with the expectation of finding even more CAs to counter the CVs and to feast on, more BB-players will line up, hoping for more prey, thanks to the limitations of the MM.

Even worse, with less long range BB fire to fire, more HE spam and torpedoes to expect on medium range, and an even further decrease of BB-player skills, the quality of BBs within the teams will become even worse, since the more versatile players might switch to their cruisers and DDs, for shorter waiting times and more fun with the other classes.

As a result, the games will change towards more onslaught between cruisers and DDs, with BBs still hugging the map borders for long range sniping.

People then will complain again, missing the big HP-pools on the frontline (where they are a rare find these days anyway), still raging about long range citadells.

 

That´s why the following idea is even more useless and worse thought through:

 

I disagree in part. The solution IMO is NERF THE BATTLESHIPS IT'S ABOUT FU**ING TIME WG. Germans as 1st.

 

If they will not do it (looks they will not) the solution could be limit they numbers in game yes.

 

Where would that lead to? BBs got nerfed into oblivion during alpha and beta, an impact they still suffer from these days. I dare to say, that any dedicated DD player, enduring those nerfs to his favourite class, would have instantly deleted the game or thrown himself infront of the next fright train.

The nerf of BBs was, what is probably the fundament of the current BB meta: stay away and snipe from behind the cover of meatshiled cruisers and DDs.

BBs are the biggest gamble in this game. They can delete anything withing one salvo, or try to inflict a mere 10k damage with 4 salvos, if RNG is against them. They are unreliable as hell. That´s why players stay away and snipe. If damage is a lottery, no matter the distance to the target, why at all move into targets range?

However, all this did not stop players of going for BBs. It just results in players doing stupid things with this class, but it didn´t stop them from playing.

We seriously might have an issue with BBs in numbers, especially with the popular german ships.

This popularity has two reasons:

1.: the german BB line boosts several hyper-iconic ships, with the Bismarck shining above them all.

2.: the german BBs are the most versatile and reliable BBs in game. They can take a beating in close combat, and have a reliable source of damage outout, thanks to their secondary guns. In addition, they are capable of defending themselves actively against DDs at high tier.

 

That´s why you can find them within the frontlines from time to time, being played as everyone in here expects his BB teammates to play their ships.

 

However, exactly these people completly fail to accept and value this behaviour. Instead of being thankfull for having those damage-sponges within their own lines, they complain about these damage sponges being to powerfull and effective, when fighting against them, asking for nerfs.

 

This, by the way, is the true problem this forum, this game, this community suffers from. Everything is okay, as long as it suits the own needs. Nobody complains, when the so-called op BB ally next to him takes a devastating salvo, or kills the charging cruiser with just a few shells, when the cruiser was going for a torpedo run or AP-salvo to delete the own ship. Then, BBs are fine. They are just wrong, if they have to face them as enemies, or when the teammates are not offering themselves for assistance.

This, by the way, goes for any class, not just BBs.

 

As long as this mindset is the dominating one for maybe 80% of the community, nothing will change, no matter, what WG does or will change.

 

Class limitations per side, buffs and nerfs, they won´t change anything, as long as the game doesn´t show up with mechanics to support teamplay drastically. Nerfs, buffs and changes within classes will only shift the weight of those classes, their impcat. We had complains about CVs, DDs, BBs, always, at several times, and they won´t cease, because there will always be a lobby complaining about a different one.

The game needs an overhaul in terms of teamplay, not further restrictions on specific classes or ships.

[Capra76]

it started with German BB's being so popular in EU ( other regions DO NOT have the overpopulation issue )

 

I'm not sure that's true, if you look at the NA figures they show the same basic pattern, a huge glut of BB at T8 and leading positions at T7/9/10, the US BB are more popular over there so there aren't quite as many KM BB but overall it look like they have a very similar BB overpopulation problem.

[FooFaFie]

Give each cruiser-captain a doubloon for each match they win and your teams will be filled with all kinds of cruisers.

 

More realistic alternative. Just give more XP and credits for each time you win a battle in a cruiser. Like 50% more compared to a BB. Again each team will be filled with cruisers.

[mtm78]

 

I'm not sure that's true, if you look at the NA figures they show the same basic pattern, a huge glut of BB at T8 and leading positions at T7/9/10, the US BB are more popular over there so there aren't quite as many KM BB but overall it look like they have a very similar BB overpopulation problem.

 

Does it? Didn't maplesyrop show NA had less off an imbalance? ASIA seems to even have a cruiser heavy meta. 

[Nitevox]

lmao, BB overpopulation on tier X? Then why I am up against 4 or 5 DDs all the time? Its all bias on what you play anyway. I play BB so I think there are always too many DDs and would like to see them capped 3 as they actually control the whole battle. Nobody dares push up into DDs and its at least 5 smokes on both sides, locking the whole map down. 

[mtm78]

Disclaimer: Just a heads up, my highest tier ship is 7

 

lmao, BB overpopulation on tier X?

 

[Nitevox]

Ok, fine, did not catch his mentioning of the tier. I still stand by my previous post, but doesnt make sense in this topic anymore, lol.

[mtm78]

I play BB

 

Almost 60% it seems.

 

so I think there are always too many DDs and would like to see them capped 3

 

Yeah, some really are thinking from 

 

bias on what you play

 

 

How about: limit BB's because they are the actual problem causing the higher prevalence of DD's at some tiers, THOUGH NEVER REACHING BB POPULATION NUMBERS?

 

How about: Montana is closer to CurryWurst then Shima is to Khaba, DD numbers in game are far from absolute, BB numbers are absolute 100%. 

 

How about: With high BB population, cruisers are unattractive to average joe, forcing them into either destroyers ( or, cruisers without citadels aka VMF Destroyer Leaders ).

 

Ow and before you try to tell me I'm biased on what I play -> I play ~44% cruisers 33% destroyers and 22% battleships. ( yeah, odd numbers right, 44 33 and 22, made me giggle as well ). 

[Jethro_Grey]

I'm totally fine limiting the number of BBs per game to 2 or three under the condition that the same limitation apllies to DDs as well.

My suggestion per side is:

 

2 BBs

2 DDs

2 CVs (equal tiered, or in special cases a max of +/-1 tier difference)

6 CLs/CAs

 

Alternatively, since the DD drivers would complain about the number of DD hunters (and my personal favorite to stop that bitching about BBs):

 

2 BBs

2 DDs

4 CLs/CAs

4 CVs (equal tiered, or in special cases a max of +/-1 tier difference)

 

Problems solved, everyone is happy as the number of BBs is limited, DDs don't have to fear being radared from all sides and it's always a plus, having 4 Hakuryus on the team to spot and cover allies.

Also, AA cruisers would finally have a purpose. A win for everyone!

[Capra76]

Does it? Didn't maplesyrop show NA had less off an imbalance? 

 

I was working off WT for the last week, but maplesyrup "higher tier ship class" for WE 08/04/2017:

 

	EU games	EU%	NA games	NA%
BB	442,496	40.7	295,820	40.2
CA	356,986	32.8	231,512	31.5
CV	26,761	2.5	20,727	2.8
DD	260,727	24.0	187,847	25.5

 

Looks pretty similar to me, we have a 1.3% more cruisers and 0.5% more BB at the cost of 1.5% DD and 0.3% CV.

 

I think he defines T7+ as higher tier, which may have an effect, the question I have if the figures are right is where are all these 5 DD a game that I hear about coming from?

[22cm]

I somehow enjoyed the idea of 12 BBs vs 12 BBs games for the BB hardcore fans, so they can search each other up their citadel.

 

[mtm78]

Didn't even check, just assumed NA was lower because I trusted the one telling me. Figures... thanks for showing how wrong that is ( always check your numbers if you're going to repeat stuff others say ). 

 

the question I have if the figures are right is where are all these 5 DD a game that I hear about coming from?

 

observational bias? 

 

Alternatively, since the DD drivers would complain about the number of DD hunters (and my personal favorite to stop that bitching about BBs):

 

 

 

2 BBs

 

2 DDs

 

4 CLs/CAs

 

4 CVs (equal tiered, or in special cases a max of +/-1 tier difference)

 

 

 

Problems solved, everyone is happy as the number of BBs is limited, DDs don't have to fear being radared from all sides and it's always a plus, having 4 Hakuryus on the team to spot and cover allies.

 

Also, AA cruisers would finally have a purpose. A win for everyone!