As at present, ask you this: "can you please mention to me ONE thing dd's are still good at to do?!..... ?

[Yaskaraxx]

Today I noticed with both my Udaloi and Belfast that they took away any benefits of using smoke (especially the Belfast heavily relies on that!). I noticed that when yr in smoke you cannot any longer see any ships approaching you, till they are some 2 or 3 kms away???! The enemy however knows exactly where YOU are (firing torps...shooting in blind or using all kinds of detection modules). But the fact that you NO LONGER can shoot out of smoke (which even gives some direction to yr enemy where in the smoke you are; but shooting no longer possible while in smoke since you cannot even see yr enemy....)  takes away the most important battle-benefit  (speciality!) of the DD's (& Belfast). If I would have known this beforehand I would never have purchased the Belfast...since Belfast now is stripped-off its MAIN speciality. As things now are: most tier VII stock-ships are just as good or even better (for instance the Fiji). So, since "smoke benefit-specialization for DD's no longer works leaves me with the sincere question: "what is LEFT for the DD's in this game (especially as from tier VIII & higher)"??

 

Look, the torps are easily avoided by other ships (everyone knows this)...hitting with a torp at present (tier VII & higher) is just as "having luck in the lottery"...so...torpedo's...mehhh...do not realy have any impact any more...especially BB's have a good laugh about those DD-torpedo's (when they have average skills + the right modules installed, very easily done.

 

So, what's next? Ohh, yes: DD's are supposed to be tiny + little ships...fast moving...good rudder shift...so DD's "are SUPPOSED to be hit relatively difficultly!???...., but think twice: in practice BB's (and CA's/CL's) hit DD's at distances 12-15 kms just as easily as say BB's or CA's/CL's. This should not be possible??! How can this be?? Seems to be in the game-mechanism. So, forget about that "supposed benefit" of DD's also.

 

Next: yeahhh...lets build an say Ognevoi with AA-specifications (modules)...maybe this gives the DD any entertaining play?! Ha, think twice here also: practice shows that a DD (with AA-built) only 1 out of 10 games is being matched up with any CV's in it (I tested this with tier VII, VIII and IX ships). Why is this?? Is such a DD realy "so dangerous for CV's???...no...since: when you shoot at planes whole the enemy fleet detects you....so that AA-built-DD has to be very carefully...BUT then again: playing it "carefully (=taking less risks) will bring you NO XP & No credits & at tier VIII only presents you with a Bill of some 100-150K credits to pay for "having enjoyed in participating with yr DD in such an entertaing game"

 

So, resuming: at present DD's are SO easily hit by bot BB's & CA/CL. Smoke-specialisation-benefit (shooting out of smoke) seems to be taken away now (when in smoke a DD no longer can see enemy ships..while the enemy still can see you posiion & act upon), DD's are SO easily detected (planes, radar, hydroacoutics etc);, DD's have torps that at present hardly can represent any real danger for avagerage equiped/skilled BB/CA/CL and last: DD's have no real possibilies to do any normal damage with main guns : with inertia fuse you loose lots of yr fire-setting-chances (which = RNG..in practice already low) + you have to shoot A REAL LOT of times to do some damage...however...in practice you do not have the time to do so caus the other ships easily hit  & sink yr DD (explained above).

 

So, what is left for DD's???...I myself cant think of anything. Only thing I can think of is some suicide-run towards a BB (hoping yr lucky and not detroyed) and try to launch your torps at say 3 kms from the enemy ship. In practice your games will take some 2 minutes actual entertaining (gambling-play) per 20 mins battle. Anyway, that's the only thing I can come up with

 

Question: were DD's REALY so incredible dangerous that they had to be stripped-off their main specialisation (=aspect that make dd-play entertaing)??? And now they even took the smoke-benefit away...????

 

(Note: tiers V/VI/VII provide some more entertaining battles for DD's; as from tiet VIII & higher...well...DD's are only for taget-practicing for BB's/CA/CL...no entertaining gameplay there for the tier VIII & higher DD's there; this is proved by facts: as from tier VIII battles (and higher) the DD's almost allways are taken-out soon & ending low on the battle score-lists.

 

Anyway: taking away THE SMOKE SPECIALISATION (= not being able to see any enemy ships any more when yr in smoke), well, thats clearly TOO MUCH for me WHY did they do such a silly thing? Anyone knows???

[RagingNoob]

If you sit in smoke, somebody has to spot for you. Maybe you smoked up while being in front of the fleet and blocked any line of sight to the targets? I camp in smoke just fine...

[YukiEiriKun]

Holy wall of text Yaskaraxx! o_O;

 

Well.. As far as I know, which may be little, WG did not change anything about smoke, but due to heavy amount of smokers players have learned how to counter that better.

 

1) You never had the ability to see out of smoke, that is your team spottting for your hidden uo poop-deck.

 

2) Enemy still can't see hou in smoke, but as it has always been, can see your shells and have learned to figire out your position by that. And I guess you make their life easy by just sitting still bebause you think smoke makes you invincible.

 

3) Sending torps to enemy smoke is, and has been, valid counter for ages.

[xxNihilanxx]

I just died a little inside.

[Yaskaraxx]

If you sit in smoke, somebody has to spot for you. Maybe you smoked up while being in front of the fleet and blocked any line of sight to the targets? I camp in smoke just fine...

 

ths for yr sincere reply, BUT: I can tell you (my Last Ognevoi battle-Ognevoi fully upgraded) I went in smoke with 1x enemy  DD (11 kms away), 1x ZAO (12 kms away) an 1x BB (some 13 kms away); I was not even in the middle of smoke and I noticed that as from that moment (open sea, no rocks or mountains) all 3 enemy ships were no longer visible to me (not on minimap also)...and then at once I was shot by the DD which seemed to have closed in to 3 kms (while undetectable/hidden for  me???!) and also Zao had significantly closed in (all in open sea...& invisible?? yes) and the BB also had approached. All of this happened in my last Ognevoi-battle. I analyzed the situation for what it was & logged-out of the game right away. How can this be possible?? So I ask you: why even play a DD tier VIII any longer?? Smoke-specialisation = away. Next time I logg in I will get rid (sell) my Ognevoi (I have put so much time and effort in that Ognevoi), just as I got rid of my Yugumo & Tashkent. For me  this kind of playing DD's in tier VIII or higher is not entertaining..no fun...no chances & in fact disappointing at present.

 

I will stick to my Tirpitz + Atago...but I will not play any other ships (regular-stock-ships) in tier VIII/IX/X anymore. But then again: I have no problem with that since I like tiers V/VI/VII far , far better anyway, I allways did. (gameplay, action, entertaining battles in mid-tiers). As I already mentioned, DD's imo are still good playable in mid-tier-battles. Its the high-tier battles where the problems realy begin (very bad game mechanisms for the DD's there at present, as it obviouslyseems.

 

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Udaloi is fine... Stay 10km or more, use rudder and save the smoke to support team mates. Granted Udaloi is nothing compared to the power that is the Khaba but meh.

 

Ogne is not a great ship when compared to other RU gunboats of around the same tier. Woe when you get T10 battles in one... 

 

OP clearly has some sort of post battle rage.

 

Smoke has never been a magical shell repelling device. Especially with smoke cruisers, the enemy can easily saturate where you are camping. You need to consider where you are smoking and how you present yourself when under fire.

[Yaskaraxx]

Holy wall of text Yaskaraxx! o_O;

 

Well.. As far as I know, which may be little, WG did not change anything about smoke, but due to heavy amount of smokers players have learned how to counter that better.

 

1) You never had the ability to see out of smoke, that is your team spottting for your hidden uo poop-deck.

 

2) Enemy still can't see hou in smoke, but as it has always been, can see your shells and have learned to figire out your position by that. And I guess you make their life easy by just sitting still bebause you think smoke makes you invincible.

 

3) Sending torps to enemy smoke is, and has been, valid counter for ages.

 

Ths for yr reply. Well obviously in your opinion ALL IS WELL & nothing was changed, ok, Look, if there is an in-game-method to transfer a premium ship (give-away) to other players then let me know: in that case I give you my Belfast since I will no longer play it without the smoke-specialisation working anyway. (ps: I realy mean this, you can have my Belfast).

 

 

[ColonelPete]

Are you for real?

I do not expect much from the WoWs playerbase, but complaining that you cannot spot out of smoke is a new low.

[Kenliero]

I can not understand how someone grind THREE DD lines to tier 9 and STILL doesn't know how smoke works..... wow.. just wow!

[Yaskaraxx]

Udaloi is fine... Stay 10km or more, use rudder and save the smoke to support team mates. Granted Udaloi is nothing compared to the power that is the Khaba but meh.

 

Ogne is not a great ship when compared to other RU gunboats of around the same tier. Woe when you get T10 battles in one... 

 

OP clearly has some sort of post battle rage.

 

Smoke has never been a magical shell repelling device. Especially with smoke cruisers, the enemy can easily saturate where you are camping. You need to consider where you are smoking and how you present yourself when under fire.

 

Hi, Negativv! yes: I know all ins-outs re the smoke (np with those mechanisms at all). But that's not the point made here". Problem is : I experienced in practice with Ognevoy (and Belafast) that I cannot detect ANY ship any longer as from the moment I take my Ognevoi (or Belfast) into smoke: all enemy ships seem to totally disappear from screen (undetectable to me, also on minimap). Seems ships can undetected approach you (while yr in smoke) till they are even 3 kms out..all hidden. My Belfast for instance had same experience as Ognevoi: "Belfast was in open sea..& Fiji closed in & torped my Belfast from some 3kms???!..that Fiji was totally hidden for me...did not see it coming while I was in smoke...how can this be?? This never happened till recently : something was changed with the smoke-mechanisms. That's the only explanation. But such takes away the main-asset of the Belfast (being totally blind, while in smoke). 

[Yaskaraxx]

Correction: see my earlier comments: Ognevoi  should read: Udaloi. The above I experienced with the Udaloi (IX) + Belfast.

[Takru]

If you're the only one spotting the enemy ships, you'll not see them any more when you put something between you and them, in this case your own smoke.

 

Nothing has changed in that regard.

 

If you're sitting in smoke with your Belfast, you have Radar and Hydro to detect other ships within the respective ranges of those consumables.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

You don't know the smoke mechanics sorry.

 

As if you did, you would know that in smoke you can only see what others spot for you unless you have radar or hydro if you're really close to stuff.

 

Obviously you were the leading ship who panic smoked and blinded everyone when you popped it...

[iFax]

Smoke works both ways, you can't see out, they can't see in.

 

Yesterday I spotted an Edinburgh slowing fast while I was reloading so I kept my guns on his bearing. A couple of seconds after he dissapeared I was ready to roll. First turret I aimed 2-3 seconds on the scale to the rear of his old position and the second turret I aimed back at his original spot just incase he forgot to move. a couple of moments later with one shell boom, no more Edinburgh.

 

Never sit still in smoke, use smoke when you know others are in a position to spot for you, always try to angle, plan a fast escape route.

[Tungstonid]

Well, you have at least 5 or 6 player telling you that nothing was changed for the smoke consumable (except for the smoke timer which doesn't influence the mechanic).

You were never able to spot out of or through smoke yourself except if 1 or more of the following conditions were true:

• you have an aircraft launched which spotted the enemy (doesn't work for spotting into smoke obviously)
• you use radar to detect an enemy
• you use HAS to detect an enemy
• you detect an enemy because he/she is closer than 2 km (3 km with an upgrade for tier VIII+ or IX+)

 

If none of those conditions are true and you still see enemies your team mates are spotting for you. Which means in turn: As soon as you have neither anything of the above nor team mates to spot for you, you are sitting blindly in your smoke without any targets.

In the situation described in post #5 it really sounds like you had no one to spot for you while the enemy team knew exactely where you were because of the smoke and that you were alone. The DD probably used either HAS which is available for KM DDs or the target acquisition module which increased his guaranteed detection range to 3 km.

 

As of your initial question what DDs are still good at... It sounds to me like you are doing some things wrong and you might want to ask other players who are more experienced or skilled with those ships for help if it bothers you.

DDs, especially the SN ones, are still the fastest ships and therefore hard to hit as long as you don't go toe to toe with your target. DDs in general are good at changing flanks/positions, contest or take back caps etc. With torpedoes you still have potent weapons and if you learn to anticipate what even experienced players will do instead of blindly following the aim assistant you will still land hits. Not as much as against the occasional straight sailer but still solid hits.

[JapLance]

 I noticed that when yr in smoke you cannot any longer see any ships approaching you, till they are some 2 or 3 kms away???!

 

Are you really serious?

[Yaskaraxx]

You don't know the smoke mechanics sorry.

 

As if you did, you would know that in smoke you can only see what others spot for you unless you have radar or hydro if you're really close to stuff.

 

Obviously you were the leading ship who panic smoked and blinded everyone when you popped it...

 

Hi Negativv! Ths for yr kind (possible) explanation: I will test what you said in practice. Actually this means the following: when I go into smoke with Udaloi + still 1x friendly DD in front of me (scouting) that under those circumstances (when I go  in smoke + being in smoke cover) that I will still keep detecting the enemy ships (scouted by friendly DD in front of my DD). Ths & ok: next time when I logg-in I will test this with both the Udaloi + Belfast.

 

Ths again for yr clarifying

 

(ps: when this indeed works then I will mention this in a last comment on this subject, fcaus)

[Vanhal]

As at present, ask you this: "can you please mention to me ONE thing dd's are still good at ...

 

Whining on the forum apparently.

 

Also, how on the earth you can be so clueless about mechanics after over 4000 battles?

[Tungstonid]

 

Hi Negativv! Ths for yr kind (possible) explanation: I will test what you said in practice. Actually this means the following: when I go into smoke with Udaloi + still 1x friendly DD in front of me (scouting) that under those circumstances (when I go  in smoke + being in smoke cover) that I will still keep detecting the enemy ships (scouted by friendly DD in front of my DD). Ths & ok: next time when I logg-in I will test this with both the Udaloi + Belfast.

 

Ths again for yr clarifying

 

(ps: when this indeed works then I will mention this in a last comment on this subject, fcaus)

 

There is no "I will test it" and "If it works I will tell you" because this game mechanic is a fact and known by everyone who even remotely informs himself about how the game works. Not to mention that it should be self-explanatory.

[Jester86]

 

There is no "I will test it" and "If it works I will tell you" because this game mechanic is a fact and known by everyone who even remotely informs himself about how the game works. Not to mention that it should be self-explanatory.

 

Quoted for truth.

[Yaskaraxx]

 

Hi Negativv! Ths for yr kind (possible) explanation: I will test what you said in practice. Actually this means the following: when I go into smoke with Udaloi + still 1x friendly DD in front of me (scouting) that under those circumstances (when I go  in smoke + being in smoke cover) that I will still keep detecting the enemy ships (scouted by friendly DD in front of my DD). Ths & ok: next time when I logg-in I will test this with both the Udaloi + Belfast.

 

Ths again for yr clarifying

 

(ps: when this indeed works then I will mention this in a last comment on this subject, fcaus)

 

Hi Negativvv! Yes, you proved to be a 100% right! Just tested what you said (went into smoke + other friendly ships scouting for me) with both Belfast + Udaloi & yes: its exactly as you explained and clarified. In fact I am very glad it all works out the way it should. Both Belfast + Udaloi just had far better scores than I usually on average had, caus now i know how it actually works.

 

Seemed indeed that i did not understand some very important + basic aspect of smoke & detecting. But now I do. (in past I was allways wondering - while in smoke- "hey, where are those enemy  ships...ships popping up & disappearing..& I dint know why. Now I do. This knowledge will improve my scores, no doubt.

 

Well, ok,was obvious mistake on my part, happens. In a way this thread has some beneficial purpose after all: there must be more players who are wondering: "why are those ships popping-up & disappearing...but when they read this thread they will learn & know why. There must be many others like me not knowing what you clarified & explained

 

So, Thanks again

 

[Ferry_25]

Really OP. You're seemingly genuine grievance about the smoke invisi fire is proving for me where part of the static boring problem is lying in this game. The smoke is a defense mechanism. To get the heck out of here when it's getting to hot or to cover up your capital ships. The pew-pewing your your tiny gun, hoping for a fire doesn't help that much. And in fact you're forcing your teammates to risk their match to scout for you. How selfish is that? Furthermore: anyone who has played a match or two have quickly learned to stuff the clouds up with torpedo's. Also with a little practise it's not that hard to hit a smoke *edited* using it's gun blooms in the smoke: the dispersion is even working in the shooters favor there...

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.

[T0byJug]

 

Hi Negativvv! Yes, you proved to be a 100% right! Just tested what you said (went into smoke + other friendly ships scouting for me) with both Belfast + Udaloi & yes: its exactly as you explained and clarified. In fact I am very glad it all works out the way it should. Both Belfast + Udaloi just had far better scores than I usually on average had, caus now i know how it actually works.

 

Seemed indeed that i did not understand some very important + basic aspect of smoke & detecting. But now I do. (in past I was allways wondering - while in smoke- "hey, where are those enemy  ships...ships popping up & disappearing..& I dint know why. Now I do. This knowledge will improve my scores, no doubt.

 

Well, ok,was obvious mistake on my part, happens. In a way this thread has some beneficial purpose after all: there must be more players who are wondering: "why are those ships popping-up & disappearing...but when they read this thread they will learn & know why. There must be many others like me not knowing what you clarified & explained

 

So, Thanks again

 

 

Yaskaraxx was going to lay in to you for you Thread but you genuinely seem to want to learn..

 

In game there is a chat channel called Forumites. Log in to it and ask for a division stating you want to learn more about DD play. If i see you there will happily take you out for a few low/mid tier games. IF i am not there are many others there as well.  I have over 25DD in port from every nation and every tier 2-10 so I am pretty sure I can find a DD to pair up with you.

 

I am no great player But in last 30days i have had a 60% winrate in DDs over 250 games so i must be doing something right

 

PS you will need some software called team speak and a Microphone and headset

 

[CleverViking]

The smoke is a defense mechanism. To get the heck out of here when it's getting to hot or to cover up your capital ships. The pew-pewing your your tiny gun, hoping for a fire doesn't help that much. And in fact you're forcing your teammates to risk their match to scout for you. How selfish is that?

 

I beg to differ, offensive smokes have their place for US DDs and in case of RU DDs smoke which last for such a short time it's hardly worth coordinating to smoke someone else up. Of course you shouldn't just instantly pop smoke and blaze away but an offensively placed, smoked up Fletcher can stop an entire enemy push with fires and the threat of torps.

 

For example in this match I used a mix of dodging at long range 11km and setting up offensive smokes to harass enemy BBs after we had destroyed their DDs. Intermixed with some periods of time where I went quiet to spot and "lose aggro". Those "tiny guns" did in fact do 60k damage if you count fires that coupled with stopping their push did in fact imo "help".

 

I will of course use smokes for teammates in tactical positions or if someone gets focus fired but DDs are still allowed to use their smokes to put pressure on the enemy or to get in some damage. We're not only spotting bots for BBs, m8. If you have control over enemy DDs positions you don't really need spotting from all your DDs and they can be useful elsewhere.

 

Only using torps is a unreliable way to deal damage as every decent player will dodge most torps and it gets even harder if the enemy team doesn't push into you.

 

A bit off-topic, sure, but I'm sick of players that feel that DDs should just play as support bots while BBs and CAs sit at max range and farm damage without ever supporting a push. I mean can we really say that DDs are the most selfish players in general?

 

Back on topic. Kudos to OP for actually wanting to learn. I'd suggest you do as T0byJug said and find someone to division up with to show you the ropes as it can be really helpful to have someone else look at what you do right and wrong (as well as what to improve).

[Skyllon]

I call them 'bricklayers class', because they are mainly responsible for two walls.

Wall of Skill and Wall of Text...