IFHE Conspiracy Theory

[Murro_the_One]

Like the topic said, it is conspiracy theory which is being kept alive by Notser in couple of his videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-c1d4QVKztu8_3f8VqMtKw.

 

idea is, that even there is no reason to put IFHE on some guns (e.g. 205mm Zao or DesMoines) some people feel the difference

i call it conspiracy theory because it focuses on the fact that maybe there is something in WG spaghetti code which might cause IFHE to be effective on these gun calibers even the official information denies it.

 

Whats your opinion/experience?

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I'll need to watch that video when I get home but it sounds a bit Tin Foil Hat.

 

IFHE is for 15xMM guns that spam HE. Akizuki and maybe Atlanta.

 

No one else really benefits.

 

DM maybe might not feel the power as T10 BB are pretty heavily armoured.

[Earl_of_Northesk]

Just go an test it in the training room. There's nothing "hidden" to IFHE, it's working as expected. We tested it as well. Terrible, terrible video by Notser.

The standard of the NA Contributors dropped dramatically lately.

 

It's worthless on any gun between 181 and 239mm pretty much. Also, on every single Battleship gun.

[Allied_Winter]

Well let's do the math shall we?

Regular USN HE penetrtation is 1/6th of its caliber --> 203/6 = 33,83333mm. If we round this to the next integer we get 34mm meaning that the USN 203mm HE shells can penetrate every armour up to (and including) 33mm thickness. The impact angle doesn't matter for HE (that's where Notser is wrong).

 

If we use IFHE the number increases: 33,8333 * 1,3 = 43,98333mm. Rounded to the next integer we get 44mm, meaning that we can penetrate every armour up to (and including) 43mm thickness.

 

What IFHE does NOT is increase the DMG upon penetration. It increases only it's values of penetrating a certain armour thickness.

 

So if you check the game and find a lot of armoured things with 34mm to 43mm at T8, T9, T10. Then IFHE might be viable. Afaik there are no (or only very little) armour thicknesses present in the game at the requiered thickness.

 

 

Greetings

[Earl_of_Northesk]

Well let's do the math shall we?

 

Regular USN HE penetrtation is 1/6th of its caliber --> 203/6 = 33,83333mm. If we round this to the next integer we get 34mm meaning that the USN 203mm HE shells can penetrate every armour up to (and including) 33mm thickness. The impact angle doesn't matter for HE (that's where Notser is wrong).

 

If we use IFHE the number increases: 33,8333 * 1,3 = 43,98333mm. Rounded to the next integer we get 44mm, meaning that we can penetrate every armour up to (and including) 43mm thickness.

 

What IFHE does NOT is increase the DMG upon penetration. It increases only it's values of penetrating a certain armour thickness.

 

So if you check the game and find a lot of armoured things with 34mm to 43mm at T8, T9, T10. Then IFHE might be viable. Afaik there are no (or only very little) armour thicknesses present in the game at the requiered thickness.

 

 

Greetings

There's some USN deck armour, but that it's. Montana and Iowa IIRC.

[Z_OnkelE]

i call it conspiracy theory because it focuses on the fact that maybe there is something in WG spaghetti code which might cause IFHE to be effective on these gun calibers even the official information denies it.

 

I wouldn't claim it wasn't working. The question around all the advise given regarding IFHE is purely about the effectiveness: take the numbers you come up with when you chose the perk and compare it to those without it. Now compare it to the list of available armour thicknesses. You may find these thicknesses somewhere but they may not be as common as others (19 mm, 25 mm or 32 mm) and thus it decides if 4 points are really worth the effort.

 

Edit:

Personally I tested some combinations in the testroom and just found it is not worth for many calibres. The 150 mm (and similar) are just the sweet spot for which it does the most. But I dont like it on 130 mm and 203 mm didn't feel worth it with my aim.

[BadGene616]

Well let's do the math shall we?

 

Regular USN HE penetrtation is 1/6th of its caliber --> 203/6 = 33,83333mm. If we round this to the next integer we get 34mm meaning that the USN 203mm HE shells can penetrate every armour up to (and including) 33mm thickness. The impact angle doesn't matter for HE (that's where Notser is wrong).

 

If we use IFHE the number increases: 33,8333 * 1,3 = 43,98333mm. Rounded to the next integer we get 44mm, meaning that we can penetrate every armour up to (and including) 43mm thickness.

 

What IFHE does NOT is increase the DMG upon penetration. It increases only it's values of penetrating a certain armour thickness.

 

So if you check the game and find a lot of armoured things with 34mm to 43mm at T8, T9, T10. Then IFHE might be viable. Afaik there are no (or only very little) armour thicknesses present in the game at the requiered thickness.

 

 

Greetings

Great post.

 

Thank you and +1.

 

What are your feelings for this wrt km cruisers with calibre/4 he penetration or is that my misunderstanding? 

 

Personally i generally use ap with km CAs but do you feel the trade off of reduced (already a bit rubbish) fire chance would be worth it Vs more consistent damage output?

[Allied_Winter]

 

 

What are your feelings for this wrt km cruisers with calibre/4 he penetration or is that my misunderstanding? 

 

 

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

Carefull! The caliber/4 HE penetration works only for KM BBs (and their secondaries) and the Graf Spee (since she shares her guns with the Scharnhorst). So KM cruisers adhere to the 1/6th rule! Great for Königsberg and Nürnber. Not so great for higher tier KM cruisers.

 

 

Greetings

[Hedgehog1963]

I'll need to watch that video when I get home but it sounds a bit Tin Foil Hat.

 

IFHE is for 15xMM guns that spam HE. Akizuki and maybe Atlanta.

 

No one else really benefits.

 

DM maybe might not feel the power as T10 BB are pretty heavily armoured.

 

Perth and Belfast also like IFHE.

[Earl_of_Northesk]

 

Perth and Belfast also like IFHE.

 

Well, those are 15Xmm guns. Course they do.

[Allied_Winter]

 

Perth and Belfast also like IFHE.

 

Basically every 152mm cruiser (or gun) benefits extremely from IFHE since those guns jump two "thresholds". Without IFHE they can only penetrate 19mm (every armour of 24mm and below). With IFHE they can penetrate 25mm and 32mm (every armour of 32mm and below). Since most BBs have 25 or 32mm front/aft armour they can now be targeted without shattering.

 

Greetings

[herrjott]

 

...and the Graf Spee (since she shares her guns with the Scharnhorst). ...

 

 

 

It gets the 1/4 rule, but the guns and shells are not the same

[Allied_Winter]

 

 

 

It gets the 1/4 rule, but the guns and shells are not the same

 

My bad, should've wroten caliber ;)

 

 

Greetings

[ShinGetsu]

RU's 180mm are the one that profits the most from IFHE anyway.

180/6 * 1.3 = 39mm.

Not only you penetrate more than 32mm, but you also penetrate the deck armor of USN battleships which is 38mm. Donskoi with IFHE get much stronger.

 

That, and lower tier 152 also, like Cleveland and Budyonny that doesn't face a lot more than 25/32mm.

[Quallo_Musto]

Its not like Notser is claiming he is always right or boasting about his skills in general. If he feels IFHE works for him, then good for him, and anyone else that likes using IFHE on any ship. 

[Migulaitor]

Related question, is IFHE worthy on 150mm DD guns? (Gaede and the tier 8)  

[Earl_of_Northesk]

Related question, is IFHE worthy on 150mm DD guns? (Gaede and the tier 8)  

 

It's not worthless for sure. Everything else depends on personal preference.

[creamgravy]

Related question, is IFHE worthy on 150mm DD guns? (Gaede and the tier 8)  

 

Yes, just don't take it over concealment expert first 

 

put IFHE on some guns (e.g. 205mm Zao or DesMoines)

 

IFHE is a valid choice in a US BB heavy meta and your shells often plunge on the deck (DM, Balti = yes, Zao = ???)

[dasCKD]

Its not like Notser is claiming he is always right or boasting about his skills in general. If he feels IFHE works for him, then good for him, and anyone else that likes using IFHE on any ship. 

 

He is on the NA server, and so he will profit from this skill more than any of us. The issue is that his video makes claims that are unsubstantiated and may well lead to those who take him as an authority to adopt a costly investment that may well be a detriment to their performance in their games.

 

This last part is just unsubstantiated on my part, but I don't think that the viewers would have let him off as easy if Ichase or Flamu was making a claim that is so widely understood to be false. Nevertheless, I do welcome investigation into whether or not 203s have some hidden benefit from the skill. I am simply not going to hold my breath on it.

[BadGene616]

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

Carefull! The caliber/4 HE penetration works only for KM BBs (and their secondaries) and the Graf Spee (since she shares her guns with the Scharnhorst). So KM cruisers adhere to the 1/6th rule! Great for Königsberg and Nürnber. Not so great for higher tier KM cruisers.

 

 

Greetings

Makes sense! Thanks.

 

Next myth busters moment...

 

He that does not penetrate has half the chance of causing fire than that stated in the stats? I've heard that kicked around a lot also.

 

So if this is the case, would the reduced overall chance of fire be negated by the fact that shells penetrate more frequently? It should be pretty simple to work out where the benefit ends on fire chance if this is the case.

[cro_pwr]

Placebo effect...

 

But considering the comments on his video, the amount of people that will spend 4 cpt skill points on a useless skill will be even higher then it is now (and its too high as it is)

[Earl_of_Northesk]

Makes sense! Thanks.

 

Next myth busters moment...

 

He that does not penetrate has half the chance of causing fire than that stated in the stats? I've heard that kicked around a lot also.

 

So if this is the case, would the reduced overall chance of fire be negated by the fact that shells penetrate more frequently? It should be pretty simple to work out where the benefit ends on fire chance if this is the case.

 

Thats actually not true. Same fire chance for all of them.

[Quallo_Musto]

 

He is on the NA server, and so he will profit from this skill more than any of us. The issue is that his video makes claims that are unsubstantiated and may well lead to those who take him as an authority to adopt a costly investment that may well be a detriment to their performance in their games.

 

This last part is just unsubstantiated on my part, but I don't think that the viewers would have let him off as easy if Ichase or Flamu was making a claim that is so widely understood to be false. Nevertheless, I do welcome investigation into whether or not 203s have some hidden benefit from the skill. I am simply not going to hold my breath on it.

 

I get your point, but just because he doesnt know doesnt mean he cant say anything, he also doesnt claim it to be better, he just says he feels like its better(for him).

[Allied_Winter]

 

I get your point, but just because he doesnt know doesnt mean he cant say anything, he also doesnt claim it to be better, he just says he feels like its better(for him).

 

But then he should add the he doesn't exactly know. Nothing wrong with playing a build that suits you best. But portraying it (and even conducted tests), as if it has a real benefit leads exactly to such threads.

 

I (personally) expected more of a well known CC.

 

 

Greetings

 

 

[ThePurpleSmurf]

It's kinda funny how everyone here and on reddit hate the use of IFHE and says it is a useless 4 point skill on Des Moines. At the same time people use AFT to increase the AA range on Des Moines, which is also a 4 point skill, but there are rarely any CVs in high tier games and if so, most are smart enough to avoid the Des Moines to not get into the AA bubble.

I play mostly on NA and many others here do too. There is maybe 1 out of 15 games a CV game and buffing AA is a complete waste, but there are always US BBs in the games. IFHE makes much more sense than AFT on NA because it might be rare when it's useful, but it's still way way more useful than AFT. Many players even drop AA consumable and use Hydro on Des Moines because it's simply more useful with the DD heavy (5 dds per side is not uncommon) NA meta.