15.5 cm/60 (6.1") 3rd Year Type

[Shirakami_Kon]

Hello everyone.

 

Today I've been searching info about one of the things that annoy me the most of this game. That's the 155 mm turrets of Mogami. The turret traverse to be precise.

 

Why does that annoy me? Well, here's a bit of context for the ones who care.

 

 

I started playing the game quite some time ago. The game was on open beta back then, so I'm not one of the older players here, but yeah, I've been here some time already. I quite enjoyed the game back then even if I was quite... "uninformed" about ships. I remember that when I first installed the game I looked at the ships the game had back then (IJN and US DD, Cruiser, BB and CV lines) and the only ship I ever heard about was the Yamato (duh). Funny thing is that even if I knew about Yamato I didn't even know what an Iowa class BB was back then. (I didn't even know what Bismarck was)  That's the kind of "knowledge" with which I started playing this game.

 

So, even if the "mighty Yamato" was there and seems to be the motivation for a quite a lot of people to play this game (and mine too the first days before realizing how long it would take me to reach her) I started looking what other ships this game had to offer and then I saw Mogami which I loved the second I saw the ship and even though "f*** Yamato, I want to play this ship".

 

Well, yeah... a few months later my past complete noob version of me that didn't even realized that you could change form co-op to randoms grinded all the way to Mogami. Yeah, 100% through co-op.

 

 

This kind of ridiculous level going on at that time, yes.

 

So, the thing is... Those 51'4 seconds of turret traverse that Mogami has with the 155 mm guns. I've read quite a bit about this. That in glorious times Mogami was better (way better it seems) and she was nerfed to the ground because the ship was one of the best invisifire HE spammers of the game (you know, the kind of thing most BB players seem unable to allow to live). However I don't know what does turret traverse speed has to do with that and why they applied Mogami this turret traverse nerf, if that term is enough in this case.

 

Since I didn't reach Mogami in time to enjoy the invisifire camping in the back I've only been stuck with Mogami with those turrets and I was curious about the real turret traverse of those turrets. And I found this nice page.

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_61-60_3ns.php

 

Not sure how accurate this data might be, but since it has quite a bit of it I'll take it that it actually might be reliable. And in the mount/turret specifications one can find that the turret traverse was 5-6 degrees per second. Which would translate in something between 30 second turret traverse speed at best and 36 seconds at worst. Classic IJN cruiser turret traverse standards here. But no, we have 51'4 seconds.

 

Why? I mean... Maybe Mogami was a problem invisifiring back in the day, I get that. What I don't get is what turret traverse speed has to do with that. And now invisifiring is completely removed. One thing I like about this game is that I learned A LOT about ships since the game has quite acurate specifications of armament and the ships itself (most of the time, don't get me started about Atago's AA too).

 

So why can't we have a 36 second turret traverse for Mogami's 155 mm guns? Is it that much to ask? Between the OP times of Mogami and now we've also had the Russian and British cruiser line with the same of better turret traverse speeds as Mogami's supposed to have without any problems. Why so much have on Mogami, WG?

 

And well, that's my "rant" about this. What do you guys think about this? Do you also think that if Mogami had the turret traverse she should would be the doom of this game? I'm curious about everyone else opinion about this too.

 

[Aotearas]

Couldn't have a ship doing better than the premium fire spitter Mikhail Kutuzov.

[Mr_Mistery]

simple balance,and mogami better is using AP even with 155mm guns

 

[Namuras]

The Mogami with the 155mm and the "old" AFT/BFT was the best cruiser in game. Leagues above the Kutuzov. 

[Shirakami_Kon]

simple balance,and mogami better is using AP even with 155mm guns

 

What balance? What's suposed to be so OP if Mogami had 36 seconds turret traverse speed? What's so broken about that?

[Mucker]

 

What balance? What's suposed to be so OP if Mogami had 36 seconds turret traverse speed? What's so broken about that?

 

Faster turrets = guns more often and longer on target = more shell spam = more damage potential.

[El2aZeR]

What balance? What's suposed to be so OP if Mogami had 36 seconds turret traverse speed? What's so broken about that?

 

You'd have very little reason to choose the 203s then (especially with IFHE). WG nerfed the turret traverse to make the 203s a more attractive choice.

[Major_Damage225]

I still have mog, i remember the monster she was, but i think now that invisiflaming is gone, mogami should get her old traverse back, since she had the option of 155 destroyer deleteter,  or 203 cruiser crusher, she was never intended to be "upgrade is a must" she had the option to make you choose what u wanted i also think she has been sidelined long enough, time to bring her back.... my opinion.  

[Shirakami_Kon]

 

Faster turrets = guns more often and longer on target = more shell spam = more damage potential.

 

Yes, but do you think that 3 guns more than usual are worth a nerf so hard that leaves Mogami with those guns unable to even properly react to a DD if the DD catches Mogami aiming to the other side? There's a lot of BBs with better turret traverse. There's gotta be a difference between a nerf and some BS like that.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that Mogami has a rate of fire of 5 shots per minute instead of the usual 7 of light cruisers which kind of compensate already for those extra 3 guns already.

 

 

You'd have very little reason to choose the 203s then (especially with IFHE). WG nerfed the turret traverse to make the 203s a more attractive choice.

 

They nerfed the turret traverse way before IFHE was even a thing, I don't think IFHE was one of the reasons behind this super logic 51'4 seconds.

[Mr_Mistery]

 

You'd have very little reason to choose the 203s then (especially with IFHE). WG nerfed the turret traverse to make the 203s a more attractive choice.

 

with 203 mm  no need IFHE AP enough strong

[Guillotine]

Mogami could use looking at by devs, to make bit more appealing and have 2 different play styles. 155,s could use some traverse buff to hunt DDs and engage at closer ranges, while 203 could use Minor range buff to set them apart ( or reload ) so its not same reload from t5 - t9 on 203s.

[Shirakami_Kon]

Mogami could use looking at by devs, to make bit more appealing and have 2 different play styles. 155,s could use some traverse buff to hunt DDs and engage at closer ranges, while 203 could use Minor range buff to set them apart ( or reload ) so its not same reload from t5 - t9 on 203s.

 

Indeed, that's one of the things I was expecting from Mogami and could make her a great ship, the ability to change roles between a light cruiser and a heavy one just by changing guns. Giving some differences between the different calibers it's a good idea too.

 

However I would understand if making such differences could be a problem or more probably not a priority at all. The turret traverse however... Who could possibly thing that a cruiser, with light cruiser guns at that having way worse turret traverse that quite a few BBs out there was a good idea?

 

Some time ago I even read that WG wanted to force people to use the 203s, because back in the day there were no russian cruisers and Mogami was the only cruiser with that kind of guns at T8. However that isn't true anymore, there's two lines with light cruisers at T8 and having 36 second turret traverse with faster rate of fire since they have 3 guns less isn't a problem at all. Even with IFHE. So I wonder why still Mogami can't have a realistic turret traverse. I agree that devs should look at it.

[El2aZeR]

They nerfed the turret traverse way before IFHE was even a thing, I don't think IFHE was one of the reasons behind this super logic 51'4 seconds.

 

Nah, however they did benefit from BFT/AFT unlike the 203s. And now with IFHE, if you gave the 155s even just slightly worse turret traverse than the 203s, the 155s would be a far superior choice.

I do agree that the 155s turn too slow, but I wouldn't go under 40s with them. Imo her main issue is her range.

 

with 203 mm  no need IFHE AP enough strong

 

The 203s offer better penetration against broadside cruisers, true. The 155s with IFHE however vastly outperform them against BBs, angled cruisers and DDs, thus offering more utility.

[Shirakami_Kon]

Nah, however they did benefit from BFT/AFT unlike the 203s. And now with IFHE, if you gave the 155s even just slightly worse turret traverse than the 203s, the 155s would be a far superior choice.

I do agree that the 155s turn too slow, but I wouldn't go under 40s with them. Imo her main issue is her range.

 

True, I know that. However the issue is that they changed the 155 mm to how they are now, changed the skills that made Mogami OP so the changes they did to the 155 mm guns are not needed anymore but they left Mogami like that because of what the ship could do because of some skills the ship isn't able to use anymore. Isn't it great?

[AmazingBeaver]

 

Some time ago I even read that WG wanted to force people to use the 203s, because back in the day there were no russian cruisers and Mogami was the only cruiser with that kind of guns at T8. However that isn't true anymore, there's two lines with light cruisers at T8 and having 36 second turret traverse with faster rate of fire since they have 3 guns less isn't a problem at all. Even with IFHE. So I wonder why still Mogami can't have a realistic turret traverse. I agree that devs should look at it.

 

Yup, I remember it too when WG said they wan't people to stop using Mogamis 155mm

[El2aZeR]

Isn't it great?

 

Indeed it is, but this is the same company that buffed Kutuzov back then and RU DDs recently because according to their data they were "underperforming". Are you really that surprised?

 

If I were to buff the Mogami I'd increase her range to at least 16.5km, give her better AA and make the concealment penalty when firing gun and not hull dependent (although now it would only have an impact on air detectability). While I agree that the 155s turn far too slow, it still makes sense to have some heavy drawback to encourage the use of the 203s, which is why I believe anything below 40s for 180° traverse to be too fast.

[Shirakami_Kon]

 

Indeed it is, but this is the same company that buffed Kutuzov back then and RU DDs recently because according to their data they were "underperforming". Are you really that surprised?

 

If I were to buff the Mogami I'd increase her range to at least 16.5km, give her better AA and make the concealment penalty when firing gun and not hull dependent (although now it would only have an impact on air detectability). While I agree that the 155s turn far too slow, it still makes sense to have some heavy drawback to encourage the use of the 203s, which is why I believe anything below 40s for 180° traverse to be too fast.

 

Well, I can agree with 155 mm having some drawback over the 203 mm to make the 203s better as they should be. But yeah, at least let some option of the 155s be usable. 40 seconds could be ok, it would be a lot easier to work around that and would still be some compensation for the 3 extra guns if the slower rate of fire is really not enough. It would also still be a better turret traverse than USN BB even if it's just by 5 seconds which is what for me look so unreal.

[Major_Damage225]

I dont know if this has been thought of or discussed yet, give the 203's the 18km range and give the 155's the 15km range so one would be a heavy cruiser for longer range and give the 155's 38 seconds of traverse so with the traverse perk it's the close rangelight cruiser mode, again u have two styles to choose from, dont force only one style, ic it was enitially ment to be a choice, why not keep it? 

Wake up wg and please fix mighty mog. 

[Cosseria]

I think WG either simply forgot to rebuff Mogami after the AFT nerf, or deliberately ignored the issue in order to keep a paywall in the line.

[salva_barbus]

The answer has already been given, IMHO: Kutuzov.

[WhiskeyWolf]

If I were you I would make sure the Devs did not notice Mogami again, at all. Every time The Devs graced her with their attention she gets royally screwed. At this point I can still make her work, as her 155s traverse speed can be buffed up to 38sec.(if I recall correctly). If WG notices her again I fear they will remove the 155s entirely.

[Major_Damage225]

Well if they have or would want to remove something why not the 203's, have the mogami with 155's and then you move on to ibuki witch has the 203's, just my thought. 

[walter3kurtz]

Well if they have or would want to remove something why not the 203's, have the mogami with 155's and then you move on to ibuki witch has the 203's, just my thought. 

 

  Everyone already plays her with 155 I think. Even though it's a pain to switch between 155 and 203, because of IFHE.

[VC381]

I agree that the nerfs don't really make sense. Basically they tried to compensate that the ship had a nasty "trick" by making her frustrating in other ways not solving the actual problem, then left it like that when other changes nerfed her strength as well.

 

The thing is, Mogami was quite unique historically due to being built basically to cheat a treaty as a "light" cruiser with the plan to upgrade the guns. I enjoyed the 155mm set up while she could stealth fire, but I switched recently and actually find the 203s more fun because of the turret traverse and arcs of fire.

 

Now, hear me out. Mogami was unique as a high tier light cruiser and now she isn't. The IJN never really wanted her that way and in game she's an odd blip in the line with a slightly different playstyle in 155mm setup. Personally, I think they should do what they did with the BBs, remove stock hull and 155mm guns, leave her as a heavy cruiser, and make Kumano as a premium with the 155mm setup and tweaked soft stats.

 

In the meantime, treat the 155s as you would any stock grind and play Soviet or British for small gun spamming cruisers as they do it much better anyway. The Mogami BTW is quite strong with the 203s and fun. Despite the Atago comparison I think she can hold her own, being slightly more agile and having better turret placement and firing arcs.

[Thunderslap91]

don't you dare give WG ideas, i realy like the mogami 155 and i will not pay for a premium 155 mogami.