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Discrimination bug :)

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With the most recent update, I see there a many "Combat missions" to benefit a few folk playing tier 8, 9 & 10 DDs, and tier 8, 9 & 10 cruisers.

For some strange reason, the benefits of these misions are now hidden, but I recall them being very cheap skill re-distribution.

 

Do you not care about your lower tier players?

 

Do any of you know what the rest of you are doing?

 

Why hide stuff and make part of it visible to folk?

 

Do you need to have another "micro-patch improvement" ?

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You liked more the "daily missions"?

And you know that containers now are taken the "daily missions" bonuses?

Do you play this game for the missions? 

 

Why so many questions?

 

Anyway - just play and they will fullfil.

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Alpha Tester
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If I had any tier 8, 9 or 10, I probably would play them.

 

Which is why WG wants you to grind them :hiding:

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Which is why WG wants you to grind them :hiding:

 

Well, if that's what they want, they really screwed us all with this update.

You'd have thought they'd employ folks with half a brain

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Ok, tried tier 8.

It was more stupid than WG intended.

 

I hope they intended to be stupid, the other option would be for them to be clueless

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Alpha Tester
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Look, some people's 'natural habitat' does not include the top tiers, but could you try and explain a bit what the issue is? Maybe people can help you a bit if they know what it is which makes you don't regard tier 8 as any kind of fun?

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It's full of people who play in higher tiers all the time. Which makes it tougher than it was when they started playing it, which means fewer players try to attain the higher levels, and the higher level become a tactically stale bore-fest as a result. It's not WoWs fault this happens, it's every PvP game; experienced players just have a tendency to spoil things because they've already parsed the game and know all the possible options.

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It's full of people who play in higher tiers all the time. Which makes it tougher than it was when they started playing it, which means fewer players try to attain the higher levels, and the higher level become a tactically stale bore-fest as a result. It's not WoWs fault this happens, it's every PvP game; experienced players just have a tendency to spoil things because they've already parsed the game and know all the possible options.

 

Just this.

I have no inclination to grind my way into levels where I have no fun.

 

There is zero incentive to end up wasting time, landed as bottom tier against experienced players who have no time, patience or tollerance for inexperienced (for that tier) players.

WG dicked around with DD's, removed some T5's and gave us T7/8 instead. How they thought this was a good idea is beyond me, and others.

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Beta Tester
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if you are scared of tier 8+ now then maybe you should have joined the game in alfa or beta stage. to illustrate I loved my zao in cbt and finally grinded it back yesterday as I go in all the lines at once and have over 70 ships in port despite how much they nerfed it so far. just gring to tier 10 play and watch what others are doing there and how that will help you if you start using others technique - its called learning

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if you are scared of tier 8+ now then maybe you should have joined the game in alfa or beta stage. to illustrate I loved my zao in cbt and finally grinded it back yesterday as I go in all the lines at once and have over 70 ships in port despite how much they nerfed it so far. just gring to tier 10 play and watch what others are doing there and how that will help you if you start using others technique - its called learning

 

You, Sir, a genius.

I just need to figure out how to travel back in time so I can join the game in alpha or beta.

 

You also confuse not having fun as being scared. You'd be very wrong with that.

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With the most recent update, I see there a many "Combat missions" to benefit a few folk playing tier 8, 9 & 10 DDs, and tier 8, 9 & 10 cruisers.

For some strange reason, the benefits of these misions are now hidden, but I recall them being very cheap skill re-distribution.

 

Do you not care about your lower tier players?

 

Do any of you know what the rest of you are doing?

 

Why hide stuff and make part of it visible to folk?

 

Do you need to have another "micro-patch improvement" ?

 

WG cares about all tiers, but not all content can be targeted at all tiers all the time.

I don't really know what you mean by hidden mission rewards, I need more info on that.

 

If I had any tier 8, 9 or 10, I probably would play them.

But I don't

 

 

We don't tell people how to play the game, but my opinion is that you're missing out on amazing ships if you never focus on higher tiers. Why not just slowly go for a line you personally enjoy? You don't find satisfaction in playing the ships you enjoy? It's hard for me to understand this issue.

 

Ok, tried tier 8.

It was more stupid than WG intended.

 

I hope they intended to be stupid, the other option would be for them to be clueless

 

This is outright offensive to all Tier 8 ships. Why so much hate? :) There are so many different types of Tier 8s in this game and you judge a whole Tier (not even class) after playing one game?

 

 

Just this.

I have no inclination to grind my way into levels where I have no fun.

 

There is zero incentive to end up wasting time, landed as bottom tier against experienced players who have no time, patience or tollerance for inexperienced (for that tier) players.

WG dicked around with DD's, removed some T5's and gave us T7/8 instead. How they thought this was a good idea is beyond me, and others.

 

I see it differently. I don't think this is the kind of game where you level up for the sake of leveling up only to realize there's no fun left in the end game. WoWs is about finding the lines you like most and working your way to the top in order to discover more nation-specific gameplay aspects, strategies, learn the ships and figure out what works best for you. I'm sorry to hear the other players didn't treat you right in battle. Don't you think this might be one of the reasons you were soured by the experience? Unfortunately I cannot change the past, but what I can do is advise you to find the line you would like to know better, try more stuff, just take it slowly... and when people misbehave, smack them with the report button.

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* We don't tell people how to play the game, but my opinion is that you're missing out on amazing ships if you never focus on higher tiers. Why not just slowly go for a line you personally enjoy? You don't find satisfaction in playing the ships you enjoy? It's hard for me to understand this issue.

 

It's very difficult to enjoy playing ships and leveling up, quite a lot of the time, tbh. As you progress through the tiers the consequences of an error become more severe and, unfortunately, this means that the variations in MM, ship type and player quality can make errors happen for you. It really spoils the fun. It is, for example, no fun getting a shiny new Duca D'Aosta and then finding yourself in a game with four Tier VII-VIII battleships in opposition, all of whom out range and out gun you - indeed, can hit you from outside your detection range. It's unbalanced - my main battery only goes 5k further than Bismark's secondaries, for heaven's sake, what are you supposed to do with that? That game involved battleships lobbing shells at each other from either corner of the map, with cruisers and destroyers being unable to play any part -  if you left the the clump (technical term) you got destroyed. The irritations are leveling from VI upwards are constant - Tier VI battleships which can only do 22 knots spawning on the edge of the fleet and immediately getting isolated and whacked by faster, newer ships - teams with speedy cruisers who zoom off and leave everyone else behind and then wonder why they can't get any support, CV torpedo and bomb wings that die if someone pops a balloon in their direction, smoke screens which obscure the ship from their enemies but don't reduce their firing range (eh?), the constant twiddling and nerfing of decent ship lines, the over importance of captain skills bringing a P2W element to the game....  I do get why people can't be bothered, sometimes.

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We don't tell people how to play the game, but my opinion is that you're missing out on amazing ships if you never focus on higher tiers. Why not just slowly go for a line you personally enjoy? You don't find satisfaction in playing the ships you enjoy? It's hard for me to understand this issue.

 

So what? The OP wasn't asking for advice, he was telling you that he isn't interested in the higher tiers and questioning your policy of limiting core functionality to the top tiers. Besides, you go on to do just what you said you wouldn't :)

 

I am in a slightly different situation, I have lots of premium ships (14 on EU and 2 on NA), many of which are tiers 7 and 8 - but I only play them in CoOp, I have ZERO interest in joining the mudslinging hatefest that is PvP at those and higher levels (watching a couple of flamu streaming session was QUITE sufficient, thank you). As far as I am concerned PvP ends at tier 4.

 

I am not in the least interested in WG telling me that I am missing out on something - what I AM interested in is some more love for the parts of the game that I enjoy - and pay for handsomely.

 

Basically I want PvE to be improved, made more difficult (there is NO fun in winning every time), the bots to play a lot more like humans and to NEVER have a single bot on the human team. I would gladly wait five minutes for a game instead. Like the OP I also want events targetting tiers lower than is the case today, indeed ALL of them. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of players who have gone back to the lower tiers (or indeed never left) and spend most of their time there.

 

I understand that there is possibly an issue with player retention. Let me guess - is it the players doing well that leave? I don't think so, it is more likely people who live south of the average win rate and have no interest in being called mongoloids (which is offensive to a lot of other people as well as the person addressed). Platitudes like "just learn the game, you will improve" are so ridiculous as to be offensive in themselves, they are right up there with "if everybody tries hard enough we will ALL be above average".

 

The game has a built-in bias that favours those that joined early, the captain skill tree is one manifestation of this. It cannot really be helped, building those skills is probably one of the more profitable parts of the game for WG (XP to Free XP conversion being a money maker as I can attest to) and at least it eventually levels out when people get 19 point captains. Rewarding top players with powerful ships and other stuff that mediocre players cannot obtain is more difficult to understand - are those top players really your bread and butter? Is it worthwhile commercially to reward them unnecessarily and thus both piss off your other customers AND make it more difficult for them to advance against those coddled "unicums"? Have you guyus read so many of their potato-hating posts that you are suffering from Stockholm syndrome?

 

 

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I understand that there is possibly an issue with player retention. Let me guess - is it the players doing well that leave? I don't think so, it is more likely people who live south of the average win rate and have no interest in being called mongoloids (which is offensive to a lot of other people as well as the person addressed). Platitudes like "just learn the game, you will improve" are so ridiculous as to be offensive in themselves, they are right up there with "if everybody tries hard enough we will ALL be above average".

 

Assumptions are bad mkay. 

 

Baddies leaving wouldn't be as bad for the game as loosing the good players which are actually the advertisement for the game. Name me ONE streamer with a below average win rate and a healthy viewer base? One YT content creator then?

 

Mhm... guessed so. 

 

Either way, I know a lot of those nasty 'unicums' which are taking breaks or outright leaving. Stop hating people who do better then you, it's looking quite sad tbh. 

 

The game has a built-in bias that favours those that joined early, the captain skill tree is one manifestation of this. It cannot really be helped, building those skills is probably one of the more profitable parts of the game for WG (XP to Free XP conversion being a money maker as I can attest to) and at least it eventually levels out when people get 19 point captains. Rewarding top players with powerful ships and other stuff that mediocre players cannot obtain is more difficult to understand - are those top players really your bread and butter? Is it worthwhile commercially to reward them unnecessarily and thus both piss off your other customers AND make it more difficult for them to advance against those coddled "unicums"? Have you guyus read so many of their potato-hating posts that you are suffering from Stockholm syndrome?

 

I know many people with > 60% wr which joined WAY later then me. I also know beta testers with a 44% win rate. 

 

Sorry, you're statements are wrong. Maybe you should like uhm.. 

 

"just learn the game, you will improve"

 

 

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Did I touch a nerve?

 

Actually you will not find any hatred for unicums in my post, on the contrary, more power to them. What I postulated was that they might not be the main source of income for WG. I'll admit to having no proof of this - which is why I phrased it as a question. Do you recognise the symbol?

 

I agree that streamers/Youtubers are essential to the game's success - did I ever claim otherwise? How does that extend to other above-average players? You do realize that the average is a moving taget, there will always be both above- and below-average players. Besides, where did I say anything derogatory about unicums? I said they were coddled but that is a criticism of Wargaming, not the unicums. All I did was remind WG that there are approximately the same number of players below average as there are above average - THAT sometimes seems to be forgotten.

 

Your just-so stories about unicums leaving and about you being (almost!) overtaken by late-comers are, well, just-so stories. Statistics is the only language of any relevance - can you show me that statistically a newcomer of the same ability is going to achieve the same win rate with captains having fewer skills? I fail to see how that could be - until his captain(s) had the same number of skill points - and that's a long time in the future (which proves my point that the playing field isn't level). If it doesn't take him that long then logically speaking he is simply better than the player we are comparing him to.

 

Is there statistical evidence showing that WG are losing more above-average players than below-average ones?

 

Generally speaking your post reeks of exactly what I was talking about, a supercilious sense of self-importance derived from being good at a game! Referring to players who do not match your gaming abilities as "baddies" who would not be missed as much as others just about says it all. Missed by whom? You? The only criterion for a player's "value" is how much he is likely to contrbute to WG's coffers, either directly (through purchases) or indirectly (through attracting others to the game). If you can show statistics indicating that above-average players outperform those of lessar ability in these respects then feel free to do so. Otherwise butt out of my dialogue with Kandly.

 

Finally it is worth noting that I consider it likely that eventually I WILL improve my game (I'm retiring at the end of the year, I'll have plenty of time to practice!). That, however, will not change my opinion of where WG should amend their WoWS policies, this was not a personal complaint but an observation. Sometimes it isn't just about yourself.

 

 

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Basically I want PvE to be improved, made more difficult (there is NO fun in winning every time), the bots to play a lot more like humans and to NEVER have a single bot on the human team. I would gladly wait five minutes for a game instead. Like the OP I also want events targetting tiers lower than is the case today, indeed ALL of them.

 

If they were to improve on the bots, you would lose every single battle in PvE with a team of random human mammals.

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ctually you will not find any hatred for unicums in my post, on the contrary, more power to them.

 

You're whole post reeks from hate to people who do better at the game then you. 

 

Is it worthwhile commercially to reward them unnecessarily

 

... why is it unnecessary to reward people who do well in the game? You think only baddies should get rewards, to keep them interested?

 

Otherwise butt out of my dialogue with Kandly.

 

Lol, you think you get to tell people to not discuss things on a discussion board? Ha, you're funny. 

 

Your just-so stories about unicums leaving and about you being (almost!) overtaken by late-comers are, well, just-so stories. Statistics is the only language of any relevance - can you show me that statistically a newcomer of the same ability is going to achieve the same win rate with captains having fewer skills? I fail to see how that could be - until his captain(s) had the same number of skill points - and that's a long time in the future (which proves my point that the playing field isn't level). If it doesn't take him that long then logically speaking he is simply better than the player we are comparing him to.

 

Uhm, you really would be swayed by a simple linking to profiles which joined later than me and who are better at the game or will you still ask for more 'proof' that there isn't some tampering going on somewhere? 

 

New players of the same skill play on lower tiers and gain the same win rate as existing good players on higher tiers while gaining XP on their captains so that when they move up in tiers they will have competitive captains in comparison with existing good players since there is a cap on the amount of points you can put on a captain. 

 

If you think this is not possible, why do you think people reroll to get better stats :facepalm: 

 

Generally speaking your post reeks of exactly what I was talking about, a supercilious sense of self-importance derived from being good at a game! Referring to players who do not match your gaming abilities as "baddies" who would not be missed as much as others just about says it all. 

 

They are baddies. Period. It's you who connects some emotional value to it, not me. And yes, I would not miss a few baddies leaving, since I also said it's not just them leaving but also the good players. So if ONLY the good players left, that would actually be worse for the game...

 

Missed by whom? You?

 

Yes I was talking from my own perspective. I'm an individual you know, I don't represent a bigger entity ( well, maybe those with half a brain.. at times :hiding: ).

 

The only criterion for a player's "value" is how much he is likely to contrbute to WG's coffers, either directly (through purchases) or indirectly (through attracting others to the game).

 

No, that's the criterion of a players worth to WG. I am not WG, I care more of the value of players on my team to actually understand how to play. Different perspectives of worth, both equally valid. 

 

Sometimes it isn't just about yourself.

 

You sound like it's about you, or 'WG's lacking policy since they focus to much on 'good players''.

 

You don't even realize that WG isn't considering how well you play, they consider how high tier you play ( mission / campaign requirements ). And you know what, that's not because of 'skill' but economics. So maybe you should think again about what you're rambling about as it seems you're projecting your inability of doing better on WG having 'wrong priorities' leading to benefits only for 'better players'. 

 

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If they were to improve on the bots, you would lose every single battle in PvE with a team of random human mammals.

 

I'm, not sure I understand what you are saying - it can either be that since WG have server-side data to feed to the bots they are invincible (which would be true IF Wargaming did that) or that the same human frailties would affect my PvE team mates as they would in a PvP game.

 

If the former then I would expect WG to program their bots honestly, build a firewall between the server data and that available to the bot programmers - who would effectively have the same information as the human players. They would still need to throw in some random mistakes - otherwise we'd be playing a team of super-unicums - but that can be done. Today the bots are a strange mix of talent (they are extremely hard to hit with torpedoes, they almost never fail to turn if they see a danger of incoming torpedoes) and ridiculousness (they ALWAYS charge straight through their smoke and sometimes just stop in the middle of the map). This can all be tweaked, perhaps a couple of difficulty levels could be implemented.

 

n other words, when I said they should improve the bots, I was talking about play style, not perfection!

 

If you were observing that "potatoes will potato" then Ok, I'd be fine with that too, I do NOT want to autmatically win PvE games - I just prefer them to PvP. After a long and successful career as an air traffic controller I've had all the inter-personal stress I need in my life.

 

 

Edited by ABDAfleet

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You don't even realize that WG isn't considering how well you play, they consider how high tier you play ( mission / campaign requirements ). And you know what, that's not because of 'skill' but economics. So maybe you should think again about what you're rambling about as it seems you're projecting your inability of doing better on WG having 'wrong priorities' leading to benefits only for 'better players'. 

 

This is eactly what I was talking about when I said Wargaming appear to be suffering from Stockholm syndrome. They have bought into the world-view of people like you; who jump on anyone who dares disgree - to the extent that most people just go away and are not heard. I could point out a few logical fallacies in your post (including the copied portion) but I won't - I'll just observe that a better low-tier game and a better PvE mode would serve both of us - because we would not be likely to cross paths.

 

I don't think there's anything more that needs saying but I expect you will want to have the last word so go for it!

 

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No actual arguments, just more crying? Well not that I expected any but still disappointing. Don't tell me I didn't try to be factual, god knows I tried, but if you want to feel attacked because you think people think you're bad at the game, it's not something I can fix. 

 

I looked you up just before, you're an average player. I don't know who called you a 

 

mongoloid

 

but he was wrong period. 

 

Anyway, that doesn't mean your complaints about not wanting to play above tier 4 in PvP and how WG should cater to people who want to stick in lower tiers is warranted for. WG wants you to progress because in general people who progress to higher tier spend more money. And you yourself said that people should be 'weighed' on their economical worth to WG so why are you also complaining when they do?

 

I could point out a few logical fallacies in your post (including the copied portion)

 

Please do, I love being corrected if I make mistakes :)

 

I'll just observe that a better low-tier game and a better PvE mode would serve both of us - because we would not be likely to cross paths.

 

Better PvE sure, been saying that for a long time myself.  But why a 'better' low tier game? What's wrong? Not enough missions? You realize that even IF they gave missions for low tiers the requirements would skyrocket Since the effort needed to obtain those rewards should be comparable? And people who want to progress... I mean you can be out of tier 4 in ONE day if pay for premium time and aren't terrible. Tier 4 is also the FIRST tier where all classes are represented in the game. 

 

I have nothing against crossing paths with you, you seem a decent enough player to have on my team, better than lots of other players.

 

I don't think there's anything more that needs saying but I expect you will want to have the last word so go for it!

 

Gee thanks, consider it done :happy_cap:

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