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Dutch_Amsterdam

SF nerf: USN DDs, why play them? How?

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So,

 

I am suprised that their are not more people having issues with the new Stealth Fire nerf playing USN DDs. Short recap, ships like the Gearing and Fletcher where supposed to be played as gun boats that also happen to fire some torps. I like to play them that way, right in the frontline or from the side, indeed, stealth firing. All of a sudden it only makes sense to use IND DDs and just be a stealth torp platform. Boring!

 

Am I really one of few who cant play the Fletcher or gearing anymore in a propper way? And now we are at it: those few grenades that did land on a T9 or T10 BB, never did that much damage to warrent the nerf. 

 

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[WOTN]
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The question really is why would you play the USN destroyers with stealth fire? They're some of the worst ships for that tactic. Their guns and turning circles are built for high intensity knife fights, and their torpedoes are excellent for all other occasions. They're hybrids, not gunboats.

Edited by dasCKD
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[UNICS]
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The question really is why would you play the USN destroyers with stealth fire? They're some of the worst ships for that tactic.

 

I'd like to know this as well.

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[CATS]
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Because doing damage with SF in a US DD took ages.

Better to get close and hunt enemy DD and use torps on the bigger ships.

 

When enemy DD are taken care of, you can use your smoke to bring the hurt to the bigger enemy vessels from a closer distance.

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I still don't get why people ever used open sea stealth firing with USN DDs. You have that great smoke from which you can spam all day and you'll hit a lot more than with stealth fire.

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I am suprised that their are not more people having issues with the new Stealth Fire nerf playing USN DDs.

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, most players don't rely on such situational tactics to play their ships. I play the Mahan right now and the Sims. None of those ships (or their predecessors) desperately needs stealth fire, although it was a nice gimmick on rare occasions for the Sims against slow moving/standing, big targets. Won't miss it very much though, the USN DDs are still one of the more capable lines.
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I still don't get why people ever used open sea stealth firing with USN DDs. You have that great smoke from which you can spam all day and you'll hit a lot more than with stealth fire.

 

Well late game you're a lot more likely to not have anyone to spot for you.

 

It's not a huge nerf really, but you do lose a situational ability to harass a ship or light fires on ships you know have used repair. And while you can still do it, there will be situations where you no longer can do it and have any hope of surviving.

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The question really is why would you play the USN destroyers with stealth fire? They're some of the worst ships for that tactic. Their guns and turning circles are built for high intensity knife fights, and their torpedoes are excellent for all other occasions. They're hybrids, not gunboats.

 

I still don't get why people ever used open sea stealth firing with USN DDs. You have that great smoke from which you can spam all day and you'll hit a lot more than with stealth fire.

 

I think the issue here, as has been stated several times on this very forum but the most obtuse still refuse to acknowledge it, is that when the USN DD fires it's gunboat guns at an IJN DD in the cap 6km away the IJN DD hits smoke and leaves the USN DD visible to ships further back for a whole 20 secs when before it wold have disappeared from view the moment the IJN DD hit smoke PLUS the DD in smoke can fire at you with impunity when before he would have been blind.. Nothing to do with stealthfiring.

 

The meta for cap contests has changed from the ship that had the better guns having the advantage to being the ship that fires first has the disadvantage.

Edited by xxNihilanxx
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Well these are actually good pointers, perhaps I was playing it the wrong style anyway. I was just shocked when I yesterday fired my guns on my Fletcher and saw my detection range go 16KM 

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Well these are actually good pointers, perhaps I was playing it the wrong style anyway. I was just shocked when I yesterday fired my guns on my Fletcher and saw my detection range go 16KM 

 

You have AFT on a USN DD?

 

Rather you than me, mate.

 

 

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I think the issue here, as has been stated several times on this very forum but the most obtuse still refuse to acknowledge it, is that when the USN DD fires it's gunboat guns at an IJN DD in the cap 6km away the IJN DD hits smoke and leaves the USN DD visible to ships further back for a whole 20 secs when before it wold have disappeared from view the moment the IJN DD hit smoke. Nothing to do with stealthfiring.

 

The meta for cap contests has changed from the ship that had the better guns having the advantage to being the ship that fires first has the disadvantage.

 

Indeed. Had a similar situation today (though that game got fubared due to UI changes anyways). Firing on a Shimakaze at 8km. He smokes but I'm spotted by a BB at my max gun range for 20 seconds. This basicly forces me to waste a smoke to not only get wrecked by the shimas guns, but also that BB and other ships in range.
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You have AFT on a USN DD?

 

Rather you than me, mate.

 

 

 

I used to have AFT on the sims. It loses basically nothing to apart from the speed boost to have it as an AA platform, since it only has 4 guns anyway, and the dispersion is good enough that 7% better makes virtually no change. It used to be a funny option to have because it meant you could go into a cap with another DD and stop them getting killed/perma spotted by CV. 7.2km AA with DF discourages planes quite a lot.

As a side bonus if no enemy ships came to that cap you could plink at stuff while you waited to finish capping.

 

Now however there's a reasonably hefty drawback to doing that

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Yes, that was the issue. I totally missed the discussion on the 20 sec visibility. I m ok with no SF but that 20 sec thing makes rush first fast and then fight a IND DD from risky to suicide. To bad, it always made for nice game dynamics. Guess I m grinding the IND DDs tiers now and become a torpedo platform. 

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Yes, that was the issue. I totally missed the discussion on the 20 sec visibility. I m ok with no SF but that 20 sec thing makes rush first fast and then fight a IND DD from risky to suicide. To bad, it always made for nice game dynamics. Guess I m grinding the IND DDs tiers now and become a torpedo platform. 

 

Its not really suicide since you can just pop smoke. Its more annoying since it requires you to use a smoke however.

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Yes, that was the issue. I totally missed the discussion on the 20 sec visibility. I m ok with no SF but that 20 sec thing makes rush first fast and then fight a IND DD from risky to suicide. To bad, it always made for nice game dynamics. Guess I m grinding the IND DDs tiers now and become a torpedo platform. 

 

That's funny for two reasons:

 

- firstly, in IJN DDs you will get killed the most by *drum roll* USN DDs...

- and secondly, high tier US DDs make for much better torpedo platforms than IJN DDs because they have comparable speed to IJN torps with greatly better torpedo detectability...and they can kill other DDs.

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The question really is why would you play the USN destroyers with stealth fire? They're some of the worst ships for that tactic.

 

So that's where all the camping BB come from, they are just camping US DD grown up :smart_fish:

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Yes, that was the issue. I totally missed the discussion on the 20 sec visibility. I m ok with no SF but that 20 sec thing makes rush first fast and then fight a IND DD from risky to suicide. To bad, it always made for nice game dynamics. Guess I m grinding the IND DDs tiers now and become a torpedo platform. 

 

I didn't play much since the patch but I think you will still be able to go into close combat with other DD, "just" be more careful: If you want to use your guns to finish other ships, have a plan how to survive the next 20s. Smoke available or not, be close to an island, check mini map how many other red ships are around. Dont use your guns without a reason (like shooting at a full HP ship because it might start burning).
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...I am suprised that their are not more people having issues with the new Stealth Fire nerf playing USN DDs...

 Probably an issue with me learning to play, but US DDs and Stealth Fire never made much sense.

 

I think the concerned should be less with the loss of SF and more with the expanded gun bloom.  I could be wrong.

Edited by Culiacan_Mexico

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Why play them?

Because at high tiers they are vastly better torp boats than IJN DDs with great self defense guns and AA to boot. Knife fighting also still works if you have cover to work with.

 

I think the concerned should be less with the loss of SF and more with the expanded gun bloom.  I could be wrong.

 

I'm with you on that one.

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The meta for cap contests has changed from the ship that had the better guns having the advantage to being the ship that fires first has the disadvantage.

 

It also exacerbates the problem of teams not assisting DDs going for caps. Several times today I engaged other DDs in my Fletcher, they smoke up quickly but I eat massive damage from the enemy team whilst the other DD gets away with maybe losing 1/3 of their health which sort of begs the question of why should I even fire my guns. More often than not it resulted in uneven trades and sometimes I just outright got nuked by the sheer volume of fire. If a tactic relies on teamplay it will quickly be abandoned in randoms as most people only care about themselves.

 

It'd be kind of sad if US DDs lose the one thing that they're especially good at (knife-figthing, contesting and chasing other DDs away from caps) because of a fear of opening fire.

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I kind of agree with the OP on this. I played USN DDs for quite some time and used to be decent with them.

The thing isn't the invisi firing, that was never really good on these ships. The trajectory was just way to slow. The problem is that the moment you shoot you get a detectability range that can put an Iowa to shame. Before you would reset this by killing your target or moving something in between you and the person you were shooting. And anything more than 9,8km away won't spot you anymore and you move back into stealth.

If you had a SN DD who starts to kite, you move away from him to 9,8km and stop shooting. In the mean time you were still doing damage to him (sort of). And when too far out of your effective firing range you would become auto invisible.

 

But now, you get a detectability range that can put Iowas to shame.

This might be just me being salty. But I would really REALLY like to have the USN DD gun range reduced to 8km. Or 9km maximum. The guns lose nearly all effectiveness at a longer range.

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...But I would really REALLY like to have the USN DD gun range reduced to 8km. Or 9km maximum. The guns lose nearly all effectiveness at a longer range...

:teethhappy: 

You know it is an effective update when DD players want shorter gun ranges.

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You sure as hell shouldn't be sitting at max range and spamming shells with AFT. Not with these shell arcs. And the only reason to even get AFT is if for whatever reason you want to provide more cover with Def AA.

 

Personally, I'm getting back into the US DDs for the AA. Aiming for a Fletcher stealth torp build, and I want to be able to punish any CV that tries to keep me spotted, as CVs are a hard, hard counter to torpboats.Can't do that with Yugumo, the only halfway decent AA I see on IJN is on Mutsuki, Akatsuki and Akizuki. And it won't deter airstrikes like Def AA can.

Edited by MoveZig

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