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mrk421

Balance changes of 2017 so far... part 1 - the worst ones

worst game balance changes 2017  

138 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the game balance tweaks introduced this year is the most ill-conceived i.e. the worst?

    • Introduction of commander skills like 'Radio Location' with the new captain skill tree in 0.6.0
      19
    • Silent nerf to supercontainers by the introduction of new special upgrades in 0.6.1
      8
    • Increase of alpha damage of Soviet HE shells from 1600 to 1900 in 0.6.2
      7
    • Removal of open ocean stealth firing capability from all ships in the manner it was implemented in 0.6.3
      29
    • Removal of manual drops for T4 and T5 aircraft carriers in 0.6.3
      25
    • It's difficult to pick the worst as they are all equally bad
      37
    • I think all of the changes listed above are actually good
      8
    • None of the above - I have my own candidate for the worst change (write in the comments)
      5

42 comments in this topic

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2017 has already seen 4 major updates to the game. With them have come some notable changes to gameplay balance some of which have fundamentally shaken the way certain ships and ship classes are played.

Some of those changes have been quite 'controversial' to put it politely or downright ill-conceived and stupid to be blunt.  

 

I thought I'd create this poll to find out which of these changes the part of the player base that actually cares about the game (at least enough to follow the forums) thinks is the worst. So happy polling and see you in the comments!

 

PS. There will be a part 2 of this topic where we find out which ones have been the most positive changes according to the EU community. ​Edit:​ Link to the poll for positive changes here

​Edit2: ​Re-worded option 4 from 'removal of stealth fire' -> 'removal of stealth fire as it was implemented'

Edited by mrk421

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WoWs Wiki Team
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Too much choice... Too much bad things... I don't know which one to choose!

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[DREAD]
Players
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Another option could be:

 

"I can adapt my play-style"

 

That;s what I do. Doesn't mean I am any better, but I still have fun and never get salty

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WoWs Wiki Team
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"I can adapt my play-style"

 

No, removal of gameplay isn't a good things and you can come with a "You just have to adapt" while they remove more and more content.

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Alpha Tester
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How about : METHOD of removing open water stealth firing? Or... 

 

Using BBaby Bingo card as development roadmap. -> that would be my pick. 

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Another option could be:

 

"I can adapt my play-style"

 

That;s what I do. Doesn't mean I am any better, but I still have fun and never get salty

 

Almost everybody can adapt, we adapted to radar, rdf etc... But the gameplay is just worse after them.

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How about : METHOD of removing open water stealth firing? Or... 

 

Using BBaby Bingo card as development roadmap. -> that would be my pick. 

 

​Actually that's what I originally intended to write but forgot to as I was writing the poll. I modified the question accordingly...

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[HAVEN]
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I need to pick more than one and also you missed out other such as not having the Royal Navy in from the start but yet have RU who did sweet fa

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I vote for the stealth fire one, because carriers one only affects 2 tiers (4 if you count the MM), containers was really annoying but not reall the gameplay (And I got 1k doubbloons 2 days ago, after 4 modules... ) the russian DDs is the usual russian stronk bias and rpf doesnt affect me, I just stopped playing DDs it became boring.

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Beta Tester
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People who whine about people not liking silly changes are just afraid that changes that makes the game easymode for them might get reverted.

 

ftfy

 

Things like this works both ways.

 

/also.. wow.. aren't you in desperate need to find excuses for why you suck..

 

Edited by AgarwaenME

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Im not voting yet as its still too soon to see what some of these changes will actually do.

I made the mistake of jumping the gun with british cruises thinking that they were floating turds, which they absolutly are not.

I do wish they handled the change to CVs better by actually rebalancing t4 and 5 usn and ijn loadouts so those tiers really are a training ground.

And the only ship im slightly worried about is the Akizuki but im going to see if it works as a fleet support ship only negative thing about that is that you need a 17 or 18 point captain for those builds.

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People who whine about changes are the ones that are pissed off because the only trick they had to win is now obsolete.

 

​This is not a whining thread and I don't think I've seen any real whining here, so I don't understand why you thought you had to make that remark...

 

Also, in case you feel uncomfortable picking the worst among the allegedly bad changes WG has implemented this year, I invite you to post in the counter-thread to help pick the most positive change :)

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Alpha Tester
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People who whine about changes are the ones that are pissed off because the only trick they had to win is now obsolete.

 

Brah you wouldn't even recognize a 'trick' on how to win if it hit you in the face. 

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Overall I just hate RPF and I'm quite sure it will never be removed. 

I'm happy about SF removal but really upset from WG's way to handle things.

Balance need some tweaks and for once not in BBs favor...

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People who whine about changes are the ones that are pissed off because the only trick they had to win is now obsolete.

 

People like you who whine about thinks to change be cause they cannot have any success since the game is complete casual and point-click-kill are probally the bad of this game....

Adapting to Co-op could be a great idea to you.

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Voted carrier ... its going to ruin the whole cv experience for new players - see aerooons commentary on the subject - and cvs will die ... although wg might actually want that, who can say!

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Another option could be:

 

"I can adapt my play-style"

 

That;s what I do. Doesn't mean I am any better, but I still have fun and never get salty

 

 

Wow you sir, renew my faith in humanity. I thought we had devolved into a generation of whiners. There is no adaptation only whination.

 

But on topic, yes adapt people. Wargames has the stats and sees the results of hundreds of thousands of games. It may feel like they are ruining the game to you. But in fact they are improving for the majority.

 

The previous whines turned out to be nothing, with the proposed mass exodus due to RL put forward by 4 people or so not being an exodus at all (even they kept playing) and now the latest whine by destroyer players again about stealth firing...

 

Face it, it was and is a broken mechanic. Not fun for any party involved. Seriously if you enjoyed the mechanic of clicking a button to shoot someone who couldnt shoot back i seriously wonder why you play a multiplayer game...

 

Does it "ruin and bring death and ooh no we cant play anymore waaaaaaaaah" destroyers? No... Does it add extra skill level to playing destroyers that wasnt there before, ie not firing at all times unless you are in a good position? Yes. Is it hard to cope with in the smallest most manouverable fastest ships in the game? No... 

 

So really, enough whiney posts, enough whiny polls. If you dont like it, best to go play hello kitty island for a bit or as the dude earlier said. ADAPT! Its great fun to face a challenge and overcome it. Change yourself, because the world wont change, learn to adapt to things around you and challenge yourself and others.

 

Finally realise invisibly shooting at people is not really fun for either. Its the equivalent of wall hacks in cod or something. Yeah some strange individuals do it, yes they have fun shooting through the wall while you cant but no, its not cool or fun for the (and here are the important bits) MULTI PLAYER GAME.

 

*end of rant*

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Alpha Tester
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Remembers guys, Belfast is balanced!

 

:rolleyes: 

 

Yes. Is it hard to cope with in the smallest most manouverable fastest ships in the game? No... 

 

You learned this in your whole 8 battles in a Farragut? 

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But on topic, yes adapt people. Wargames has the stats and sees the results of hundreds of thousands of games. It may feel like they are ruining the game to you. But in fact they are improving for the majority.

Yes which is BBs, but is that really something good in terms of balance (if you look at the class distribution)

The previous whines turned out to be nothing, with the proposed mass exodus due to RL put forward by 4 people or so not being an exodus at all (even they kept playing) and now the latest whine by destroyer players again about stealth firing...

Yes RPF doesn't completly brake the game and i never believed so. It just kills all the fun out of your DD game under certain situational circumstances which is not cool either in my book, but won't make me quit playing completly.

Face it, it was and is a broken mechanic. Not fun for any party involved. Seriously if you enjoyed the mechanic of clicking a button to shoot someone who couldnt shoot back i seriously wonder why you play a multiplayer game...

Yes but the problem is not that you can't stealthfire anymore (which i rarely used anyway), the problem is the extended detectability. Even if you are in a good shooting position behind island/smoke so the enemy 9 km away won't see you, the one enemy 11 km away on your left side will and THAT is what triggeres me, that suddenly ever DD turned into german ones overnight (which weren't good already when released)

Does it "ruin and bring death and ooh no we cant play anymore waaaaaaaaah" destroyers? No... Does it add extra skill level to playing destroyers that wasnt there before, ie not firing at all times unless you are in a good position? Yes. Is it hard to cope with in the smallest most manouverable fastest ships in the game? No... 

see above.... and why not add extra skill level to BB gameplay? That didn't happen for over half a year now (if not more). And lol at the last part. OK let's meet up this weekend in a private match for a fun race. But you have to pick Akizuki and i can pick any Tier VIII Cruiser..... boy I wonder who will win 10 out of 10 times......

So really, enough whiney posts, enough whiny polls. If you dont like it, best to go play hello kitty island for a bit or as the dude earlier said. ADAPT! Its great fun to face a challenge and overcome it. Change yourself, because the world wont change, learn to adapt to things around you and challenge yourself and others.

Okay why not give every IJN DD Torpedos with 0,9 km detection range and 70+ knots speed and range between 6km and 12 depending on Tier. I am VERY sure you and not only you alone won't be silent if just someone says "ADAPT THEN"

Finally realise invisibly shooting at people is not really fun for either. Its the equivalent of wall hacks in cod or something. Yeah some strange individuals do it, yes they have fun shooting through the wall while you cant but no, its not cool or fun for the (and here are the important bits) MULTI PLAYER GAME.

Like said before SF removal is not the point and like also said above RPF is not cool and fun in certain matches either...... Oh and for a MULTI playgame you gonna need multiple players..... good luck finding those when most CV/CA/CLDD players left.....

*end of rant*

 

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I almost never play cv but i would say the removal of manual drops for the low tier cvs.

And my second vote would be the nerf on supers. :X 

The rest i dont care about

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As a forum lurker and part of the silent majority i can only say that WG have made me reconsider spending my money both in premium time and ships.

 

Of course they have the stats at hand and they know? more than i do but the Sub Octavian Q and A with Flamu really threw me off.

 

Even i the average and sometimes a bit above average player could see that his answers were -lets put it mildly- not true.

 

I only hope for WG to reconsider their awful stance cause i love the game and ive found to spend my limited free time enjoying sinking and being sunk.

 

edit:forgot to mention that as a DD mainly captain both in PTS and in live i have to be even more passive to the point that my guns are there for display purposes.And this is coming from a player who almost always tried to do his role eg cap etc

Edited by sosna83

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Wow you sir, renew my faith in humanity. I thought we had devolved into a generation of whiners. There is no adaptation only whination.

 

But on topic, yes adapt people. Wargames has the stats and sees the results of hundreds of thousands of games. It may feel like they are ruining the game to you. But in fact they are improving for the majority.

 

The previous whines turned out to be nothing, with the proposed mass exodus due to RL put forward by 4 people or so not being an exodus at all (even they kept playing) and now the latest whine by destroyer players again about stealth firing...

 

Face it, it was and is a broken mechanic. Not fun for any party involved. Seriously if you enjoyed the mechanic of clicking a button to shoot someone who couldnt shoot back i seriously wonder why you play a multiplayer game...

 

Does it "ruin and bring death and ooh no we cant play anymore waaaaaaaaah" destroyers? No... Does it add extra skill level to playing destroyers that wasnt there before, ie not firing at all times unless you are in a good position? Yes. Is it hard to cope with in the smallest most manouverable fastest ships in the game? No... 

 

So really, enough whiney posts, enough whiny polls. If you dont like it, best to go play hello kitty island for a bit or as the dude earlier said. ADAPT! Its great fun to face a challenge and overcome it. Change yourself, because the world wont change, learn to adapt to things around you and challenge yourself and others.

 

Finally realise invisibly shooting at people is not really fun for either. Its the equivalent of wall hacks in cod or something. Yeah some strange individuals do it, yes they have fun shooting through the wall while you cant but no, its not cool or fun for the (and here are the important bits) MULTI PLAYER GAME.

 

*end of rant*

Did you just say about stealth firing that: "it was and is a broken mechanic. Not fun for any party involved.​" Then a few lines down you reiterated, that: "invisibly shooting at people is not really fun for either​." And then a mere sentence later in your analogy mentioned that: "yes they have fun shooting through the wall while you cant" ​Contradicting with the previous statements you made in the same post a little? :rolleyes:

 

Other that than I think Miessa3 took apart your post brilliantly!

 

To me here's what the bottom line is:

changes to game balance are good and welcomed as long as they improve the way different ships and ship classes are balanced against each other - you know, the rock-paper-scissors principle. However when those changes systematically favour one ship class over any other, which seems to be the case here, this needs to be called out!

I mean you agreed yourself that removal of stealth firing increases the skill level to play destroyers in particular. Would you disagree that adding skills to the tree that make it impossible for a destroyer to ambush you or making them more visible more of the time reduces the need for situational and map awareness for battleship players in particular, thus making the game easier for them? I mean you probably would, but you'd be wrong...

 

If this trend continues we might end up in an unwanted situation where only the most skilled of players will play destroyers and cruisers and the general player base will migrate to battleships exclusively. Which won't reduce the complaints of cruisers and destroyers being overpowered, as the average battleships player will continue to get raped by the more skilled cruiser and destroyer captains.

 

​Edit:​ PS. I would wholly support making the game easier for battleship players if the class was underperforming, which I don't think is the case no matter what metric you use to determine that.

Edited by mrk421
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