quick thought about upcoming smoke timer

[puxflacet]

Do you like the idea of that timer for smoke? I actually think that this pushes the smoke factor into wrong direction. Smoke should be imho rather dynamic than static. It should disippate at more random time and i think it should be even moving, like real smoke screen does because of the wind. It would open up new tactical options not to mention that it keeps its excitement factor.

What do you think?

 

EDIT:

puxflacet, on 26 March 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

my whole point was that the timer thing is pushing the imaginary slider more towards "artificiality" for the smoke: 

• fixed and measureable duration
• fixed location
• fixed boundaries 

...while the real smoke screen is quite the opposite.

 

SinkTheOthersNotMe, on 25 March 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

... that would make the game even worse for DD and CA/CL....

dd sees that wind is blowing towards enemy bb -> dd lays smoke screen -> smoke is moving towards bb -> dd is moving along with it, which allows it to approach the bb without being spotted...thats certainly huge advantage

 

but surely it would have disadvantages as well like you can no longer use smoke for static defense, but always predict where it will move..would just require more ahead-thinking

[mtm78]

Do you like the idea of that timer for smoke?

 

Yes I been using the mod for it since it came out.

 

I actually think that this pushes the smoke factor into wrong direction. Smoke should be imho rather dynamic than static.

 

You mean you want more RNG and less skill? 

 

It should disippate at more random time and i think it should be even moving, like real smoke screen does because of the wind.

 

Like I said, more RNG.

 

. It would open up new tactical options not to mention that it keeps its excitement factor.

 

More RNG != more tactical options. I can't even begin to see how it would, maybe elaborate?

 

What do you think?

 

I don't like adding more RNG. 

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

We have already enough RNG and that would make the game even worse for DD and CA/CL....

 

Would be more exciting to have bigger RNG numbers for BB for a change....

[mtm78]

Ow wait... OP plays no ships which rely on smokes at all.. nice way to have unbiased opinions

 

[Pivke]

i wont be using smoke timer.

i will continue to use the mod for that, because the timer is in better place on the screen.

[Cosseria]

Yes maybe to smoke drifting with the wind, if it lasts longer.

NO to random duration, it would be a very "funny and engaging" ™ mechanic for big ships like British cruisers. 

[puxflacet]

thats not rng. you know that the smoke will dissipate you just wont know the exact second (just like so far - no rng) and you will see that the smoke is moving so you can adjust. and for the difference in duration i meant like in between 20 seconds not minutes

[bushwacker001]

thats not rng. you know that the smoke will dissipate you just wont know the exact second (just like so far - no rng) and you will see that the smoke is moving so you can adjust.

 

 then what it is then if it's random? 

[Kevbar]

NO to random duration, it would be a very "funny and engaging" ™ mechanic for big ships like British cruisers. 

 

^^What he said, but with extra irony!

[puxflacet]

 

 then what it is then if it's random? 

 

it is random. but i thought the term rng is established for things out of your control, right? like detonations, gun dispersion, AA...not this case

 

however my point is that smoke above anything else should be more random factor rather than exact factor. thats not rng like completely out of your control. you just will have to produce a bit of effort. you want everything cosy and comfy?

 

More RNG != more tactical options. I can't even begin to see how it would, maybe elaborate?

when the smoke is moving, you can move along with it ;)

 

[lezantas26]

We have already enough RNG and that would make the game even worse for DD and CA/CL....

 

Would be more exciting to have bigger RNG numbers for BB for a change....

 

the single class with most rng should get even more rng? 

 

back to topic,

no to random duration

yes to smoke timer

maybe to wind affecting smoke direction

 

i mean it certainly adds more variety than parking in one spot, but there should be some requirements met first

1. wind should not change direction throughout the game to help with consistency

2. there should be some clear indication of where the wind blows, maybe the engine smoke would also be affected (it would add some slight variety to aiming too)

 

BUT would it be a nice addition to the game, or only make the ships that rely on smoke more frustrating to play for no reason?

i am actually divided here and i cant answer, it would be nice if they made a pts to test it

[Webley_Mark]

What do you think?

 

No. Just no. If we had that the gameplay of a lot of ships doing damage in a smoke will be broken. Smoke are fine the way they are. Maybe if some are a little bite OP... Yeah, I'm looking at you US's smoke.

[mtm78]

when the smoke is moving, you can move along with it ;)

 

That is exactly what RNG is. 

 

Imagine a RN CL, small smoke blob in optimal position ( next to an island giving you a way out when needed ) then wind blows your smoke away from your island. Fun and engaging.

 

Also, current smoke isn't comfy and cosy, but necessary for game balance  

 

 

[puxflacet]

i mean it certainly adds more variety than parking in one spot, but there should be some requirements met first

1. wind should not change direction throughout the game to help with consistency

2. there should be some clear indication of where the wind blows, maybe the engine smoke would also be affected (it would add some slight variety to aiming too)

 

yeah. thats exactly what i thought

[mtm78]

 

yeah. thats exactly what i thought

 

Nice selective quoting..

 

BUT would it be a nice addition to the game, or only make the ships that rely on smoke more frustrating to play for no reason?

 

Here, I can do the same

[daki]

however my point is that smoke above anything else should be more random factor rather than exact factor. thats not rng like completely out of your control. you just will have to produce a bit of effort. you want everything cosy and comfy?

 

OK if I understand you correctly, you basically believe that having a smoke timer somehow takes out the "skill" element and hence should be randomized to make it less reliable and harder to use?

So, lets then talk about what does "smoke skill" mean. In order to avoid a wall of text (and believe me I am trying to resist the urge to make one ), the following points are imho what essentially the smoke skill is about:

1. Knowing how and when to use it for the tactical benefit of the team (covering specific teammates or flotilla movements)

2. Knowing how and when to use it for your own protection or aggression

3. Knowing how and when to use it as a decoy to mislead the enemy

4. Knowing how to position yourself and how to move within the smoke

 

As you can see, I do not find the smoke timer availability to be an important component of smoke skill. The data about deployment time and duration is anyways available both before and during the match (if you pass the cursor over smoke consumable).

Having the ability to subtract 2 numbers in order to know when the smoke dissipates, is not really a skill as I assume that on average we are all past the elementary school.

That is what I did before the timers existed - performed one elementary arithmetical operation. Whoever calls that a "skill", is greatly mistaken imho.

 

So I would suggest to you to try to master the above 4 components of smoke skill, and then to come back here if you still think that introducing smoke timer is reducing the level of required skill.

All in all, I have no problems with changes which make the gameplay more comfortable while not affecting in any significant manner the skill component.

[lezantas26]

 

Nice selective quoting..

 

 

Here, I can do the same

 

why noone quotes the part about testing it?

i believe there is a good enough chance it will add more to the game and maybe even the smoke reliant classes would like it*, so its worth a try. 

 

*moving smoke means it is less of a torpedo magnet and i cant count how many times i wanted my smoke to "follow" the enemy so i could keep shooting / close in for torp run. it might even make map balance more interesting, fixing the "meta", though i imagine it would break more maps than fix  .. or maybe not, we dont know till we see it in action

[mtm78]

No it's more RNG, and it only complicates things for classes which rely on smoke. We all know you also don't like smoke, doesn't mean it has to be be the next checkmark on the BBaby Bingo card development roadmap. 

[TheCinC]

Seen it on PTS.

Not a huge deal, as it only shows a timer until the first puff blinks out, then the next and so forth.

You can't see a timer on other people's smoke, you have to know which puff is the first, etcetera.

So it is somewhat useful, but not really game changing.

[ghostbuster_]

IMO, it wasnt necessary at all. 

[lezantas26]

No it's more RNG, and it only complicates things for classes which rely on smoke. We all know you also don't like smoke, doesn't mean it has to be be the next checkmark on the BBaby Bingo card development roadmap. 

 

your obsession bashing BB is not healthy..

i even included cases where a moving smoke would help me greatly, hence why i believe it wouldnt only be more difficult to use but also beneficial if used correctly

 

also, i am not sure what is rng about it.. yes the wind direction will be randomly selected, but it would be a constant through the whole match. its as much rng as map selection

[mtm78]

And it's not needed and doesn't bring anything to the game.

 

Btw, want to claim you never said anything negative about smoke

[VeteranGamer84]

I want smoke for my Nikolai

 

[mtm78]

BB smoke should be a toxic cloud which hangs over them corroding their hull until they press W and move forward instead of backwards. 

 

#MakeBBGreatAgain

 

edit:

 

@Lezantas

 

See, I do want moving smoke  

[lezantas26]

And it's not needed and doesn't bring anything to the game.

 

Btw, want to claim you never said anything negative about smoke

 

i certainly have said about invisi-fire, i am not sure if i have ever said anything about smoke.. if i did, it would have to do with DD influence

right now i am going up the RN cruiser line (still at danae) so i keep enemy DD power in check