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Balance changes

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Please leave your feedback on the balance changes here.

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-About stealth fire, how about you leave the Grozovoi as it is just giving it a slight window of stealth fire capabilities without touching Akizuki, leaving players a choice with the DD sub-branches that would actually offer different game styles? For the IJN its either torps or guns and for soviets more DMG but no stealt fire, or, less DMG but having the ability to stealth fire?

-Tier 4-5 CV nerf - will they be locked in tier 3-5 MM so that they would not meat CVs of tier 6+, since generally they will become useless in comparison without the manual drop?

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Tier 4 and 5 removal of manual attack: Big NO! It´s really stupid, and nobody wants it. Just read all the posts about that.

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I think the removal of manual drops on T4/5 Cv's is counter-productive.  While it may reduce the number of seal clubbers in CV's you are going to be giving free reign to the seal clubbers in other classes, as you are effectively removing one of their main counters.

 

My most played CV is Bogue in 1.1.0 setup because I'm not a great multitasker and I can tell you that you absolutely need manual drop to make any kind of positive impact when you have only one attack squadron.

 

It is so frustrating to consistently land 0 to 1 torps from 6 just because they are so easy to dodge now.

 

I had hoped the quality of the auto-drop might have been improved to compensate for the manual drop removal.  Tighter spread and/or dropped closer to the target.  What about a module or a captain skill for improved auto-drops.

 

It needs something, unless WG aim is to reduce the CV population to the point they can 'justfiably' remove the class altogether.

 

I have no interest in high tier CV gameplay as it's completely broken. Now I'm pretty much at the point of having no desire to play them at all.

 

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I think the stealthfire removal simply makes some ships almost unplayable. Take the akizuki for example, it's slow, big, and the only things really going for it are the guns and the ability to stealthfire. And even that is easily countered by a scouting enemy destroyer. Stealthfiring is only a problem if your team doesn't spot properly or you decide to solo cap in a battleship, under normal circumstances it's not really breaking the game.

 

Of course, there are some examples where you can abuse it, like camping in the back with Zao for instance, but again, most of the time if you don't have an enemy scouting within 16kms of you, then the enemy might already be doing something wrong. The thing with stealthfiring cruisers is that most ships already have a lower detectability than the minimum range at which those cruisers can stealthfire, so if we strictly take 1v1 situations, it does not really provide an advantage, unlike in destroyer vs battleship fights.

 

I feel like the only good thing about this is that german dds might be a bit less crap now. I still think however that the change will yet again make battleships stronger, while nerfing almost everything else. I suppose it's time I'd rebuy my russian dds.

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A few observations regarding the changed mechanics of CVs based on actual testing on the server:

 

T5 IJN CV bombs are horribly unreliable. I have had multiple matches where my bomber consistently didn't hit anything the whole match over. 5 or at least 4 bombers made it to the enemy CV or a BB and dropped their load but nothing hit, again and again. Based on that, gaining more bombers with other and later CVs seems, from what would be a new players perspective, horrible, as bombs seem to serve no purpose but to feed fighters and cruisers with plane kills. And no, there was no defensive fire involved.

 

Clusters of islands are now immunity zones for all ships that seek shelter from CVs. Without closer drops, torpedos can often not be dropped in any meaningful way and bombs don't seem to hit. 

 

The modified auto-drops of torpedos do work against bots, but mostly for IJN cvs since bots seem to have trouble with Cross-drops. It is rare to hit more than 1 torpedo per squadron - IJN or USN, doesn't matter.

From the receiving end, even with a turning circle of 910m and a rudder shift of 9.6 seconds, i had no real issue evading most torpedo attacks against my cv and only got hit (barely!) by 1 torp most of of the time.

 

Furthermore, some of the low tier CVs have become a real drag to play. Zuhio still is somewhat fun but the bogue, which was not really a fun ship before, is now a nightmare. If Bogue and langley were to represent carrier gameplay, i would advocate removing carriers from the game as a whole, because they are just not fun. With the removal of manual drops and strafing, there is just nothing to do while playing them. The Ship itself is very slow and can barely maneuver and the 3 squadrons take quite a bit to rearm and all they need is 2 or three mouse clicks to operate. If i could select my targets from the player list displayed while pressing tab, i could play 5 to 8 bogue matches at the same time.

 

Instead of reducing the skill gap between CV players, the new auto-drop mechanic transfers that burden to the CVs targets. This means, that a CV with bad enemy players will still be able to rake in massive damage (almost like before), while a CV player with competent enemies will do no damage at all. While this could happen in some fringe cases before patch 0.6.3, after this adjustment, they won't be fringe cases anymore but a noticeable amount of regular matches.

 

On the positive side, the controls, once i got used to them, feel more responsive. Targeting ships is a real issue however, as selecting targets for autodrops is really picky. 

 

 

edit:

One important fact: Smoke is a cv immunity zone now. You are perfectly save from CVs in smoke. There is no way anymore for CVs to drop torps or bombs into smoke, even if you can see the muzzle flash or trace the projectile trails.

 

As a matter of fact, players at t4 and t5 are exactly as capable as bots now. There is no technical difference anymore. With that in mind, WG could start to implement CV bots as valid counterparts to players in tiers 4 and 5.

Edited by Gobbernator
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WG you f*cked everything patch after patch....lets see what Given that Zao was outperforming other Tier X cruisers pretty solidly, the worst that should happen would be that her stats balance with other ships up there. She is not dependant only on stealth fire (not by far) and, to be honest, camping stealth firing Zao on your team is almost as infuriating as camping battleship ''

 

They dont have even 1gram brain there. You think now with the remove of stealth, we TANK with ZAO ???

When i play ZAO, i stay at 16-16.5km for stealth fire, now with no stealth i stay at 18km camp behide the BBs, and let them cry.

Same with the DDs , when i play DD, i keep the smoke only for myself, and again let the BBs crying cause DDs dont smoke them.

Result of the update is : END OF FUN OF THE GAME AND TEAM PLAY,  and i think players start to search for a new good game to play.

good game WG :red_button:

Edited by HaZarD_X
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Taking out the ALT-attacks made the T5 CV experience significantly worse. Really, really worse in all aspects. I felt even less in control over the whole course of each match. Click somewhere (if the interface registers it correctly) and forget. There is nothing else I can do as a player.

 

I am objectively watching the diced being rolled from the atop and I can only note the outcome, wait for the automated call back to my ship for the plane reload and click again. That is really ALL there is left of the "gameplay". And that last part is not even judging how much fun it is, this is just the simple description how it works now.

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Detection range when firing being the same as maximum firing range does mean that if you have a spotter aircraft active you can be seen from further away. You could argue that bigger muzzle flash if firing further, but you're not necessarily firing further, you might just want the different perspective on where someone is shooting from or what they are doing.

 

And I think some Battleships (and some other ships) are actually stealthier now, in some circumstances? Their detection range when firing was longer than the range of their guns, which doesn't make any difference if they can see their target and their target can see them. But if they are firing over an island or over/through a wall of smoke at someone being spotted by someone else then an enemy ship which does have line of sight on them would have to be closer now (by 5-10km, depending on the tier and nation)? The patch notes do say "The use of obstacles like terrain and smoke screens will not be affected.​" so I might be confused, but I'm not sure how.

 

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I think this is going to be horrible, at least untill WG changes it all again, the usual non professionalism.

I don't even know where to start...

1 - "This decision is based on a thorough review of feedback from players and combat tactics used in the game. We have carefully studied your feedback, and we made a conclusion that stealth firing, i.e. shooting from invisibility on open water, causes more pain than profit making gameplay dull; its exclusion will make the game more comfortable to play and fair for all"

Well this one is priceless. I'm trying to find ANY player feedback in this forum and Internet and i can't find a single player, other than BB players, stating stealthfire is so bad. That one is a blatant lie, sorry to say that. I hope you give away your "sources" of feedback where most players hate stealthfiring. You shouldn't lie to your playerbase.

2 - "0.6.3 will bring enhancements to more than 40 warships. Generally, these gameplay changes will focus on lower and mid-tier ships – however, formidable ships like Z-52, Yūgumo, Shimakaze and Grozovoi will receive their well-deserved performance improvements, too."

Well this must be considered another lie, unless WG is hiding something. WG says they made changes to 40 warships, "however", some "formidable" ships (WG sure has a sense of humor) will receive deserved performance improvements. Others may have slight changes but Shimakaze is exactly the same or am i missing something? It does have better range, LIKE ALL OTHER 40 SHIPS, but what does the "however" means? You're trying to make it look like Shimakaze has some kind of buff apart from range. Does it?

3 - "...stealth firing, i.e. shooting from invisibility on open water, causes more pain than profit making gameplay dull; its exclusion will make the game more comfortable to play and fair for all..."

Stealthfiring only makes the game dull for BB captains that don't have a clue. I wonder why i never had any kind of problems with stealthfiring when i play BBs? I even play really agressive!! Now it's true that this changes will make the game more comfortable. For BB captains and Russian DDs, i guess that's what WG meant.

4 - "...Superiority in concealment will still provide advantages for low-observable ships but to inflict damage with impunity, you will need to use smoke, terrain and maneuver like a pro..."

It's amazing that WG nerfed IJN DDs with radars, radio location, huge nerfs to torpedoes, fire chance, you name it and then comes with this mumbo-jumbo for kids "you have to play like a pro" are you kidding? Is this a 7yo game or what?

How unlogical is it for WG to say such things when just a while ago, was excusing all nerfs to DDs with the objective of making them play closer, be more agressive??? Now WG says, in other words:"If you have a IJN DD, now you have to play really really far, that's why we increased range."

 

It's amazing what WG is doing and unless there's huge changes in the game after this decision, the game will basically die as a good game. What do you think will happen if half of the CAs and DDs in the game can't fire without an island or smoke? They will choose not to fire while not in these conditions. Since WG already nerfed everything else because of stealthfire, these ships will become useless.

Just wait untill the BB captains that whine more than they play start sniping detected DDs at 30km, from the border of the map...

I'm playing BBs in test server and i can tell you. IT'S GREAT!! I went straight to cap, i knew where all DDs were, i took shots at max range at every kind of ship. CAs and DDs must chose between cap or fire... I had a great time firing at hopeless CAs and DDs trying to cap. I know i'm safe because if they fire at me i  can just wipe out half their HP if not all.

 

Just to call it an "upgrade" to the biggest "downgrade" to all ships but BBs is something to think of. I just hope WG has some "serious" measures in case this completely ruins the game.

 

Sorry for the testament but check out this video from Admiral Hattori. That comes from a guy who loves the game really never complains. The video is more interesting because he is a BB player.

 

 

 

Edited by MS_Surface
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I think that some of the range changes has made lower tier CAs a little easier to play now, giving more time to dodge imcoming BB fire. How come you stopped with range changes, and how come you stopped at tier 6? Do you plan on giving any help to higher tier ships that used to rely on stealth firing? Not the Zao, but US DDs with the bad firing arc do some a little badly hit. In addition, why was the warspite overlooked for a range increase? It is badly outranged by New York and Texas at the tier below now. In addition it still has that terrible gun rotation.

 

I'm in favour of the removal of stealth fire as a concept, but the game was roughly balanced as it was, but following this change we can effectively throw away all statistical analysis prior to this change. Some ships will be badly effected and this could potentially hurt the game very badly if this change is not carefully balanced.

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Terribad.

 

The worst problem is the removal of any form of stealth play for gunboats. Despite what WG claims, the actual impact is much bigger than just preventing people from being able to shoot at enemies incapable of returning fire. Easiest scenarios:

1. A gunboat (say, Akizuki) meets an enemy DD in cap. Akizuki opens fire and either kills the enemy or forces him to turn away and smoke up.

 - previously: Akizuki disappears as the DD no longer spots her

 - now: Akizuki most likely remains spotted by some cruiser 10+km again or a DD in another cap

2. A gunboat finds a place to fire at enemy BB over an edge of small island

 - previously: Akizuki can fire at the superstructure of the nearby target inflicting significant damage

 - now: Akizuki is likely to be spotted by some OTHER enemy that's significantly further away but has the range of sight to Akizuki

3. Akizuki steams at her whooping speed of 32-33kn through an arhipelago, shooting at enemy cruiser locked in fight with another friendly ship. Other enemy ships start aiming at Akizuki (or maybe the original engagement she took advantage of ends)

 - previously: Akizuki can get behind and island and disappear...

 - now: ...not if any of the other threats has line of sight to her

 

I used Akizuki as an example as she's the most obvious victim of the change: her concealment after firing was tiny (due to small guns) and her ability to stay alive otherwise are very limited (she has neither the speed to run away nor nimbleness and small size she'd need to dodge incoming fire; a bit more hp is hardly of any use outside DD vs DD fights)

 

I honestly thought WG was going to give the stealth fire removal some thought. It COULD have been done sensibly, either by introducing completely new mechanics (maybe some form of target-only visibility so that if you shoot at someone he can always shoot back) OR perhaps by something simpler: replacing caliber-driven visibility bloom radius with caliber-driven visibility bloom duration (so that big ships remain visible for 30+ seconds but peashooters can disappear within a couple seconds of going silent). Alas, WG learned nothing from the popularity of KM DDs and their problems - what they chose to do was to shaft stealth play for all the other DDs in similar manner. "Fair for all"? Well, guess what: not everyone has BB armor and BB guns... Well, not for now.

I heard we're at 40% and rising. Not that surprising in light of the "upgrades" other classes keep getting - like this one to stealth mechanics.

 

29783051.jpg

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Terribad.

 

The worst problem is the removal of any form of stealth play for gunboats. Despite what WG claims, the actual impact is much bigger than just preventing people from being able to shoot at enemies incapable of returning fire. Easiest scenarios:

1. A gunboat (say, Akizuki) meets an enemy DD in cap. Akizuki opens fire and either kills the enemy or forces him to turn away and smoke up.

 - previously: Akizuki disappears as the DD no longer spots her

 - now: Akizuki most likely remains spotted by some cruiser 10+km again or a DD in another cap

2. A gunboat finds a place to fire at enemy BB over an edge of small island

 - previously: Akizuki can fire at the superstructure of the nearby target inflicting significant damage

 - now: Akizuki is likely to be spotted by some OTHER enemy that's significantly further away but has the range of sight to Akizuki

3. Akizuki steams at her whooping speed of 32-33kn through an arhipelago, shooting at enemy cruiser locked in fight with another friendly ship. Other enemy ships start aiming at Akizuki (or maybe the original engagement she took advantage of ends)

 - previously: Akizuki can get behind and island and disappear...

 - now: ...not if any of the other threats has line of sight to her

 

I used Akizuki as an example as she's the most obvious victim of the change: her concealment after firing was tiny (due to small guns) and her ability to stay alive otherwise are very limited (she has neither the speed to run away nor nimbleness and small size she'd need to dodge incoming fire; a bit more hp is hardly of any use outside DD vs DD fights)

 

I honestly thought WG was going to give the stealth fire removal some thought. It COULD have been done sensibly, either by introducing completely new mechanics (maybe some form of target-only visibility so that if you shoot at someone he can always shoot back) OR perhaps by something simpler: replacing caliber-driven visibility bloom radius with caliber-driven visibility bloom duration (so that big ships remain visible for 30+ seconds but peashooters can disappear within a couple seconds of going silent). Alas, WG learned nothing from the popularity of KM DDs and their problems - what they chose to do was to shaft stealth play for all the other DDs in similar manner. "Fair for all"? Well, guess what: not everyone has BB armor and BB guns... Well, not for now.

I heard we're at 40% and rising. Not that surprising in light of the "upgrades" other classes keep getting - like this one to stealth mechanics.

 

29783051.jpg

 

And that is the exact experience that I had at PT....

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Any news on the refund for Blyskawica and other premium destroyers/cruisers because they are being hard nerfed into very weak ships ? 

Edited by Nebuched
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Well... After playing a couple of the affected ships (IJN DDs, USN DDs and the Mogami 155 mm) I have to say: I noticed myself going through the same thought process when I play a German DD. Is firing my guns really worth it right now? Can I afford it?

 

Brought down to the most simple description: it is just not fun to be in that situation all the time. That is the reason I do not follow the German DD line and why I tried the old Tashkent in Ranked Battles (T8 at that time) only two times.

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I dunno seems fine. Played Farragut and Mahan and really didn't notice not having stealth fire overly much.

 

I also just played the Zao and it is still a really strong ship. No real problems with IJN or USN CAs.

 

Will try Benson upwards next.

 

EDIT: skipped Benson but the Fletcher is absolutely fine, still a monster. Really not seeing the end of the game here guys...

Edited by Shagulon
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Playing Bogue without manual drop was absolutely horrible and also one of the most frustrating and boring experiences I have had in this game!

without manual drop you create an immunity zone where ships can hide between islands without you ever being able to hit them.

 

tier 4 and 5 CVs are now the only ships that can't attack a ship hiding in smoke. Any BB, DD or CA can either fire their guns or send torps into the smoke, but since you can't target anything, you won't be able to do anything at all except being shot down by the ship in the smoke.

 

Targeting is horrible, since it seems like like the waypoint handle is in the way. Why do you even need a waypoint handle??

 

some games are unplayable. the screen freezes and you loose all your planes and can't do crap. Got attacked by enemy fighters, and screen froze. could not do anything but to escape and go back to port. 

Edited by Erik_Aukan
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I dunno seems fine. Played Farragut and Mahan and really didn't notice not having stealth fire overly much.

 

I also just played the Zao and it is still a really strong ship. No real problems with IJN or USN CAs.

 

Will try Benson upwards next.

 

EDIT: skipped Benson but the Fletcher is absolutely fine, still a monster. Really not seeing the end of the game here guys...

 

Well, that might be because you're testing this on ships that aren't built to engage on longer range (the arcs) so stealthshooting itself isn't too important for them (they can do it but it's hardly worth it in most cases). They rely on other methods of not being seen - like best smoke in the game. And when it comes to facing the side effects of the changes (spotted long after the enemy you were fighting is dead): USN DDs have handling characteristics to survive when under fire (they are capable of dodging much of incoming shells).

Edited by eliastion
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Disabling manual torpedo drop for T4-5 carriers is in my opinión a very unwise thing to do.

 

While it will surely please somebody (honestly, even BBs can't get that much punishment on average, given that not many games include CVs and that even if some do, your own BB is by the laws of probability not going to be picked for torps all the time), it will do way more harm than good:

 

- Playing TBs without manual drop is boring as hell, as the only thing you do is target and approach selection.

 

- Automatic TB drop is practically useless (and therefore frustrating, on top of being boring) even against slow and clumsy targets provided that they have a minimum of situational awareness.

 

- CV drivers will have no way to learn to manual-torp until they get to T6, where they will constantly get whacked by strong AA, therefore depriving them of the opportunities to practice. Once you run out of TBs, no more learning..

 

- Smoke and terrain can render TBs even less useful, as others have already explained. But that only adds insult to injury, as players able to use that to their adavantage will necessarily have developed a certain playing skill, and therefore are not the ones that complain about torp manual drops. They try and fight their way out and when in real trouble, just hope for the best and learn from their mistakes, as all decent players do.

 

I am adamantly opposed to this change, and, honestly, I just can't figure out how you WG could even just come up with this proposal. But, as you might as well implement it no matter what, I suggest you to at least consider giving T4-5 carriers an additional alternative loadout comprising one fighter squadron and 2-3 bomber squadrons, with no TBs. Just please give us a choice out of this TB nightmare.

 

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Guys c'mon. It's all fine. WG doesn't use BBaby bingo card as development roadmap, which is why BB's are actually getting buffed again as their concealment when shooting will only be a high as their firing range. Yes, stock Konig has 15km concealment when shooting 305mm gun's, but when she is burning you can see her from 16.x km because 'balance comrade!'. 

 

Ships like Akizuki will be fine, they can perfectly evasion tank while being spotted all the time, it's a fast and has very good turning ability! Evasion tanking is easy with her, and don't forget you got a lot of armor, hitpoints and a heal.. ow wait those were BB's again right? Anyway, don't forget, you can always smoke up, you will have to use smoke to stay alive. But don't worry, after this patch BBaby bingo card development roadmap has specified that smoke is OP and must be nerved as well!

 

As to other non glorious DD's ( those who aren't made with Stalinium for extra speed ), it's fine to go for cap's, since you can always kill enemy DD and get undetected without sacrificing all your hp right away! Well unless you got 14km range and there is an enemy within that range ofc. So, comrade's, you all know how to play your DD's from now on -> stay VERY close to the rest of your fleet and forget about basic concepts like PTFO. Instead, rely on some of your BBabies to find their W key and go cap for you, they will be spotted as well but they got armor and hitpoints and heal so they are the perfect ships for capping!

 

In fact, BB's can semi stealth fire, Koning stays at 15km, shoots it's gun's and moves outside of 15km concealment range.. instant disappearing battleship, presto! 25s later with gun's almost loaded, come into 15km to shoot, rinse and repeat. It's going to be a whole new meta * cough #MakeBBGreatAgain cough *.

 

And don't worry about those ships which will be broken, WG said they will be buffed next patch. Except, ofc, they want to use their precious statistics for that. Which means they think people are actually going to PLAY ships which are broken :sceptic:

 

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Stealth fire removing? Not particulary amazed neither before, with some ships only able to do it (pretty unfair advantages to some ships, where others have not), neither now, with ALL the swhips levelled on the same ground.

I found lacking some of the example above: Akizuki (I have it) will have trouble if alone, but the same role of the Akizuki was about a "fleet destroyer", meant to move with the fleet, playing AAA role and anti-dd role to protect bigger ships, not being an invisible ninja firing behind visual...
The same example made by eliastion worked even now against any Akizuki: you start firing to a target (confiding on your stealth firing), only then experiencing that a much closer opponent is inside your detection range is still keeping you spotted for the next 20 seconds then you were nailed (generally another DD, but as it is the game now, even a bunch of cruisers have a non-firing detection lower than my own when firing: IJN... US... RN... all kind of cruiser that could be inside or at the edge of the unsecure zone for me to fire). Now you have just to keep your eyes a bit more open, rather than making damage with impunity. Basically you have to become a "good player" like anyelse that cannot rely on sthealt firing (by ship characteristics), rather than those kind of players that do not play the WHOLE game, but just those sparse ships that offer a BIG advantage of some kind (stealth firing... HE spam mechanics... BELFAST - a whole OP ship... Chapayev -with a radar zone bigger than his concealment, to trap DDs...).

 

I'm more contrary about the carrier removal of manual drop... AND I'm talikg as the receiving end of them, as I play all the 3 classes with guns (DDs, BBs and CAs) but NOT any carrier (I'm not in micro-management needed, and i never liked the "satellite view" of the battles). WG actually removed a way to learn to be useful in a carrtier (for presumed "seal-clubbing" ability of more advanced player coming back at lower tier), just to open the seal-club party to other classes, piloted by a skilled player: my ninja DDs torping and sinking battleships that, piloted by new players, sail straight... my BBs, capable to wipe out CAs (I love my Kongos: playing it I can pretty do hard pwning, but not only at her t.5... I'm not ashamed to go against t.6 or even t.7 - My best target is hunt Sharnhorsts: small guns bouncing if I'm angled, more guns on my kongo to rip them piece by piece, speed to dictate engagement unlike other later BBs), now will have an easier job to stay alive and MORE PWN lower experienced players... my CAs, that now I have just to swing around to fool plane's drops of any kind (WASD-hack) and keep killing enemy DDs and burning enemy BBs...
REMOVING OF MANUAL DROP FOR CARRIER IS BAD: new players in low tier carriers will be only frustrated by lackustre opportunity to do something, now, in a whole, because it's only the game that decide on your performance, and not just because they are, in meantime, learning HOW to do it.
About stealth fire (as a gunner-type of player by myself) find me absolutely indifferent. Neither now (a far away stealth firing enemy needed just to be left a bit behind, to not be anymore a problem, moving away generally only one kilometer will be sufficent) neither after (I always found lacking of actual taking part on the battle of those that, relinquishing in second-third row, never did anything aside firing when sure nobody can fire back).

 

EDIT1: My ideas about "firing detectability balancement", to be in the between of actual gameplaying is and the proposed WG balancing for 0.6.3. WG should just make the larger detectability in par for the gun reload. BBs? they reload for 30 secs = you are visible for the same time (YES: firing is meant to receving fire back... this will make UNhappy players like the US hi-tier BBs, capable to appear and disappear at long ranges during reload if actually stealth-concealment focused)... CAs: 20 to 15 seconds, based on their guns (similar or a bit better than now)... finally gun-boat DDs, that could NOT have a full stealth, but a "blinking" stealth-ability: you clearly give you your position, but you can disappear in few seconds if far away enough, as your smaller guns reload faster (up to the captain to be still detected, keeping firing, or be the "ghost" that appear and disappear). That will be also a balancement for those "bigger gun DDs" that actually are most played just for the advantage they have: it will be a trade to be more spottable against smaller guns DDs, capable to evade faster...

Edited by CapitanoAraym
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Welcome to a new game that has emerged from the husk that was World of Warships.

Calling all Battleship drivers who crave to let the world know how powerful they are!

Fear not those pesky Destroyers for you are the King of the Seas! Maidens will fall at your feet and proclaim your wonder! Men shall bow before you! Destroyer captains... will be playing a different game, likely with their mates from the Cruisers.

Yes, it has been confirmed that Wargaming have decided that the following nerfs were not enough to appease the Battleships so that they woudl emerge blinking from the shadows of Islands furthest from the fighting:

 

1. Cyclones - Visibility drops to 7Km, so surprise obliteration for anyone in a Cruiser that runs into a Battleship, little or no warning for a Destroyer. For example, in a Bismark yesterday I was up against a North Carolina and two Kageros. Chances of winning, nil. Cyclone hits. Laugh balls off, easy win. Bottom line, BB's can sail around with no / vitrually no concealment disadvantage

 

2. Sonar - At first a smattering of ships with it, now available to pretty much any CA/CL, some BB's and some DD's. Cool down very short and duration pretty long.

 

3. Radar Mk1 - Spots anything inside 9 - 11Km for 30 seconds but long cool down... Only on a few ships.....

 

4. Radar Mk2 - As before but with fast cool down and longer duration. At least 3 salvos heading your way idiot Destroyer captain trying to cap!

 

5. Radar Mk3 - on pretty much every CA and now PTW BB AKA Missouri. Now the game is saturated with radar firing ships who can pretty much evacuate an area of any living DD, creating a virtual no go area around the fleet. Every T8+ game you have 2 - 6 radar equipped ships on each side to make your job harder - cap in my Shima with a Moskva/ Des Moines / Missouri / Batli / Doner / Chapy / NO potentially in range and ready to light me up for everyone? No thanks.

 

6. Which would be, in of itself, livable with if radar did not outrange pretty much every torpedo in the game which brings me to IJN Torpedo nerf! Anything that can outrange radar can be spotted from 2.5Km and avoided.

 

7. Then we got RDF - specifically to aid in hunting of DD's WG said. Game breaking say many, I don't agree.. in isolation. However, the enemy always know where, roughly, you are and thus where the likely torpedo threat comes from. In the past you could at least deter a RDF equipped chaser or at least control the enegagement somewhat with stealth firing. Now... you are simply screwed.

 

8. Along with RDF we got another beauty, Twin Catapult aircraft - anywhere between 90 and 360 seconds of flight time, keep spotting torpedos and DD's even after the ship that launched them sunk.most Importantly now you cannot stealth fire, your torpedoes are almost invariably spotted.

 

Put all that together and you have an unremitting assault on Destroyers in particular and a never ending series of boosts for Battleships who lack situational awareness and just want to sail around the back of islands and every now and then click their mouse and allow RNG to gift them a few citadels on some poor bugger in a CA.

 

Now we must again nerf Destroyers because clearly the snowflakes driving Battleships cannot cope with even such a heavilly slanted game in their favour and remove stealth firing..... whose primary purpose is to break off an attack or initiate one. Stealth firing, one of the few advantages that DD's have to still allow them to be effective in the face of a radar wall especially as the game does not reward them for anything else

 

Simply put WG, stop wrecking your own game. Your response to every DD nerf is basically "play better". How about you say this to the real problem in this game, base camping island humping bow on Battleships who get regular ego massages anyway from citadels on any Cruiser unlucky enough to be in sights.

 

Light cruisers' greatest weapon is surprise. This requires the ability to control spotting distance versus the small amount of pain they can inflict within that small window. Light cruisers go bang very easilly in return for this.

 

For a Destroyer (non VFM) their ONLY real weapon is stealth. You keep attacking that and the "problem" of DD's will not go away completely for the BB dummies because only the really good players will play them as the skill floor will preclude any average player from enjoying anything to do with them.

 

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It is remarkable to watch WG taking more and more fun away from this great game with every new patch!

As many others pointed out: Removing stealth fireing will not help at all. The DDs will keep their smokes for them self, the Akizuki will be unplayable and all the premium-player will demand a refund. Why should i buy a ship for 30 euros, if it can be subject to such changes the very next day??!

The main problem will be that the "hit and run" tactics, that made the game fast and fun, will be to expensive now. For example: You are in a DD with 13km range, you have a concealment of 6km, you outspot another DD and manage to kill it of fast. Usually you would disappear and might get away with taking this risk. Now you will still be visable for any ship in your range of 13km, so you will see the number of ships aiming at you going up, while 3 BBs and 2 CAs are focusing you for the next 30 sec. There is NO way any DD can survive such a focus. So PLEASE don't come to us later and tell us, that we just have to play better. I hate to say this, because i love WOWS so far, but if you keep messing with the game, i will move back to a nice singleplayer game with more consistency.. Just stop altering the main principles: DDs are stealthy but weak when detected, BBs are tanky and should not cry about some 100mm shells, and cruisers should be able to disengage if a bigger fish appears.

Edited by Bolitho
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One of the main reasons I've tried the PT for the first time is to see if Akizuki will be viable after 0.6.3 and if it's going to be worth continuing to develop a captain for her on the live server. But to get to her you have to go through Shiratsuya. Now this is the only non premium IJN DD I still own and play apart from Akizuki having sold all the rest after the recent string of nerfs they have received. I've only played 2 games with her on PT, but that was enough for me to come to a rather surprising conclusion. I really wish there was some way I could reduce the range of her guns! I will possibly move another captain into her tomorrow and try her again without the upgraded GFCS, but this will still give her guns a range of 10km which is too high.

 

Now in case some of you don't realise what's going on here and think I've gone mad I'd better explain. The Shiratsuya has 11km range with upgraded GFCS and a visibility of 9.6km when firing them with a captain with CE. In 0.6.3 this of course now becomes 11km, an increase of 1.4km. Now I do not fire the guns on my IJN DD's any where near as often as I would on US or Russian one, but in the space of those 2 games I found myself not firing 3 times in situations where I would have fired on the live server, and we are not talking about SF here. What we are talking about is short term engagements in the 7-9km range against targets that are on very low HP, or when the target or myself are about to move behind an island. All 3 times I saw enemy ships on the very edge of my gun range, which is now also firing visibility, who would continue to spot me after the ship I wanted to engage would have lost sight of me or been sunk. So while 1.4km may not seem very significant it would appear that it's going to be enough to further reduce the times I fire the guns on Shiratsuya. But of course then I realized that if I could reduce my gun range I would not lose so many of these opportunities.

 

So to summarize they are about to release a patch after which it would appear the best way to buff IJN DD's gunnery is to REDUCE the range of their guns down to as close to their normal concealment detectability as possible. So you can see it wasn't me that has gone mad, but someone else most certainly has.

Edited by ajb13

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Another thing as a feedback to these balance changes. Although it's not really an opinion as much as just some readily available facts. A little funny realization.

 

stock New Mexico without a captain

displacement 32 000 long tons, firing her 356mm guns in salvos. Visibility: 14,6 km right after firing, 14,2 for 13 seconds after 20s penalty expires and guns are still loading 

 

fully upgraded Akizuki with full concealment  build and AFT

displacement 2 700 long tons, firing her 100mm guns in salvos. Visibility: 14,9 km

 

So. On PT it is right now perfectly possible (although unlikely for many reasons, of course) to have a situation where there are two ships equally distant from you, both firing their guns and the one you'll see is the destroyer with smallest guns in game rather than the BB with more than three and a half times the caliber. What's more: it's also possible that both of these ships are actually firing AT YOU (in open water) and while the destroyer will remain constantly spotted, the BB will be slipping in and out of view with every salvo.

Edited by eliastion
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