Detonations are detrimental to the game

[malaquey]

I've been against detonations as a concept since I first saw them in CBT. In fact my motivation for this post is that I got detonated. However rather than make another rant "detonations suck" thread I want to actually discuss them.

 

First off all lets look at the pros and cons:

 

Pros:

They are fun for the shooter - people might say they feel dirty for detonating someone but it's still a positive experience to detonate someone.

They offer some randomness to the game - this is subjective but if a sure defeat is turned around because someone detonated a full health yamato then that can add some hope for a losing team. "maybe I'll randomly detonate him and win".

They are realistic - again this is subjective but for those that value realism detonations are something that definitely happened to ships in real life.

 

Cons:

They are not fun for the receiver - nobody has ever been pleased they were detonated. to have your ship destroyed when you thought you were safe is an understandably distasteful experience.

They are random - again subjective but in my opinion this is the biggest problem with detonations, having your ship taken away because you lost an RNG roll isn't satisfying gameplay. It is also not a reward for good gameplay like a citadel is but instead something that just happens regardless of whether you shot well or not.

They are unpreventable - while you can use detonation flags (or even the magazine module) you can't keep your ship indefinitely protected from detonations, you will run out of flags and the module only gives 70% protection.  this goes with the random nature to give a feeling of helplessness which is most peoples complaint.

 

While this is again subjective i would argue that the unhappiness of the person being detonated (and their team) is much larger than the enjoyment the person detonating them gets. While they are admittedly rare that doesn't excuse them as a mechanic.

 

The only real way to prevent them is to not get hit in the magazine. While this is sort of possible with battleships, cruisers and especially destroyers are always susceptible. If they are going to be a mechanic then this random factor needs to be fixed so that they are a punishment for taking a risk, or a reward for playing well.

 

I would also like wargaming to give their reasoning behind detonations, presumably they believe it offers some benefit to the playerbase. If this has happened in a post somewhere I would be very grateful if someone could link it as I'm not aware of one.

 

Personally I would remove detonations but if someone has ideas for how they could be reworked (or arguments for why they are fine) please post them so we can discuss it. 

 

-editted-

 

For completeness I should mention there IS a logic to them. Any hit that damages the magazine, regardless of actual damage caused, can detonate the ship. The more damage that is dealt to the magazine the higher the chance of detonation, it functions similarly to the way you take engine damage except you die instead of stopping moving   Importantly the magazine is a module and as such can be splashed through armour in the same way you can lose your engine from a near miss without taking any damage. I think I saw somewhere that the chance is the % of the damage dealt to the magazine except it caps out at 10% chance (20% damage dealt still only has a 10% det chance). For cruisers and battleships this largely means you need to be citadelled for your magazine to be hit which sort of makes sense. Destroyers are the real victims though since they are small enough for every hit to splash the magazine which is why they detonate so much more.

 

TLDR - detonations take away more enjoyment than they add and so should be removed (or reworked)

 

 

 

[Admiral_noodle]

I've moved from good (fun) to neutral. I like the idea but not implementation. You should be able to use repair to avoid detonation (flood magazines) so at least it's not purely RNG.

[malaquey]

I've moved from good (fun) to neutral. I like the idea but not implementation. You should be able to use repair to avoid detonation (flood magazines) so at least it's not purely RNG.

 

That would be a much better way to address it. Something like the magazines are hit and you need to use damage control to prevent them detonating in 10 seconds for example? Or maybe a hit to the magazine means they are automatically flooded and therefore disabled (although turret destruction already exists so not sure about that). Or even a seperate mechanic so you have to manually flood them (and therefore destroy them) or else your ship blows up?

[El2aZeR]

The only things I'd change immediately is that splash damage should not be able to trigger detonations and to disable them in ranked.

[puxflacet]

they just need proper animation to have really any meaning, because i think of them as immersion feature. but without the spectacle they are just annoying feature...however they should be in the game for sure

[Aragathor]

The only things I'd change immediately is that splash damage should not be able to trigger detonations and to disable them in ranked.

 

I think would be the easiest and simplest solution to detonation problems right now.

[malaquey]

 

I think would be the easiest and simplest solution to detonation problems right now.

 

Easier than just removing them

 

But I agree, SOMETHING would be better than nothing,

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Detonation are.... 

 

When I cause them it is not based on skill.

When I suffer them it isn't that I made a mistake I can correct.

 

I don't feel bad or good... sort of ok.  Act of God.

[malaquey]

Detonation are.... 

 

When I cause them it is not based on skill.

When I suffer them it isn't that I made a mistake I can correct.

 

I don't feel bad or good... sort of ok.  Act of God.

 

That's my biggest issue. Something like a citadel (or a headshot) is a reward for aiming carefully. Detonations just... happen, and neither party can do anything to affect the chance. It's always a poor game design to take control away from the player and they do just that (and AA but that's for another post :3)

[ScratxNeko]

 

That's my biggest issue. Something like a citadel (or a headshot) is a reward for aiming carefully. Detonations just... happen, and neither party can do anything to affect the chance. It's always a poor game design to take control away from the player and they do just that (and AA but that's for another post :3)

 

This. They're just lolrandom to the extreme. There's no point to them. You can't use skill to try to shoot out the magazine, it's too random whether you even hit in the correct spot and if you do it's still very unlikely you'll actually succeed. You also can't use anything but signal flags to counter them (the module only reduces the chance, making it all the more frustrating when it does finally happen).

 

I just don't see what detonations bring to the game.

 

Admittedly an implementation that gives detonating players a chance to prevent it could work well... start ammo fire, got X seconds to use DCP to put it out or else you go kaboom? *shrugs*

[Zogash85]

I'm fine with detonations staying the way they are right now. I'm neither particularly angry when I get detonated myself, nor am I particularly ecstatic when I'm the one doing the detonating (I usually apologize for it in chat) - so I guess I'm neutral.

 

To be quite honest, I don't get what all the fuss is about... in about 2750 battles so far I have been detonated 22 times. Comparing that to the number of times I have died ignominously because I f-ed up myself or because my teams consisted of headless chickens, that is nothing. When it happens to me, I pout for half a minute, watch how my team does without me, leave the battle, and start a new one. No biggy.

 

 

Detonations are supposed to be "lolrandom to the extreme" -  or do you think Bismarck's gunners were purposefully sniping for Hood's 'weakspots'? It's freak shells randomly landing in just the right place to penetrate and explode inside the magazine. If anything, there should be a small chance that if you let fires burn for too long, they reach your magazine and detonate them, but even I think that's a bit too much.

 

I do second the motion, however, that they should get a far more spectacular animation than just the regular "ship has reached 0HP and goes up in flames".

 

 

[El2aZeR]

Detonations are supposed to be "lolrandom to the extreme"

 

I fully agree, but such a completely random mechanic has no place in ranked nor in clan battles and should therefore be disabled in competitive gamemodes.

[Zogash85]

 

I fully agree, but such a completely random mechanic has no place in ranked nor in clan battles and should therefore be disabled in competitive gamemodes.

 

That I fully agree on as well.

[eliastion]

They are not fun for the receiver - nobody has ever been pleased they were detonated. to have your ship destroyed when you thought you were safe is an understandably distasteful experience.

 

I don't like detonations (playing a lot of DDs, you see) but I must correct you on this one. I remember at least a couple occasions where I was glad I got detonated. It's 10 brand new signals in my depot 

 

...and I'm not even joking here - detonation flag management is a thing and detonations can happen on low hp or when terribly overextended through some combination of brainfart on my part and unforseen well positioned enemies with a radar (although vulnerability to the latter could be counted as brainfart too, I guess). In such situations it's actually preferable to die to detonation instead of being shot to pieces normally. I can honestly say that I've had at least a couple "yay, I got detonated" moments across my WoWs history 

[Ferry_25]

Neutral on this matter. No it doesn't give me a good feeling to detonate someone. Not a bad 1 as well: good to take out guns. Giving a dev strike does. At least that's got something to do with skill

[makhot]

As currently implemented:

• Bad
• Frustrating
• Stupid

 

OK, if implemented as follows:

1. Only occurring to damaged ships e.g. health pool under 66%
2. Detonation chance increasing when ship's relative health pool approaches zero
3. Accompanied with proper visual and sound effects
4. Never caused by a minor HE splash

[Kharazas]

I don't like when my ship detonates and I don't like detonating an enemy ship. But I like the randomness it adds and detonations are rather rare.

And if it really bothers you you can add a flag + modification to reduce the risk.

[Admiral_noodle]

I like detonations from a vaguely historical point of view. As a nod to history. However if I was implementing them...

 

You would need to score a penetrating hit on the magazine location

You would then see a notification of magazine fire with a ten second countdown.

The player who hit the magazine would get a magazine ribbon.

If you pressed repair the fire would go out but all your guns would become incapacitated for a while.

If you didn't repair you would blow up

Spectacularly.

[Guillotine]

Detonations arent an issue, it happens so rarely that its not problem. Yes i have gotten detonated last time as DD but it was 100% on me. I equipped fire chance flags + flooding flag and didnt put detonation flag on the ship.

 

 

There are only few ships that suffer detonations commonly and rest its just bad luck and detonations to games played reveal that.

[AkosJaccik]

they just need proper animation to have really any meaning(...)

 

I'm with you on this. I got salty sometimes, but never because of detonations, exactly because they are deus ex machina. Screwing up is infuriating, but getting lolpenned by the Great Random is just "well, that happened!" My problem is also that it just looks bland and does not even give a spectacle in exchange. Sure, explode my ship, but then explode it, shockwave-on-water, smoke-reaching-the-clouds explode it, not just "boom, ded". It should be like that for a fraction of a moment you stop fighting and look at the other end of the map, thinking, "wow, what happened?!"

...but yes, it should go from competitive modes.

[Skyllon]

To be quite honest, I don't get what all the fuss is about.

 

For me fuss is about making the game even more random then it should be. It is already RNG heavy.

 

 

I like detonations from a vaguely historical point of view.

 

Come on Admiral. History begs for realism and speaking about putting out magazine fire is just slap in the face of St. Bede...

But one thing for sure, detonations should be spectacular and as far as I'm concerned long time ago WG said is looking into it...

[Hedgehog1963]

they just need proper animation to have really any meaning, because i think of them as immersion feature. but without the spectacle they are just annoying feature...however they should be in the game for sure

 

Right with you on this.  Even id just a DD detonates it should be something really spectacular.

[Krikkio82]

Have i heard detonation ??!!?? 
 

WG remove asap please please.... why is it still in the game ???

 

[SV_Kompresor]

I've moved from good (fun) to neutral. I like the idea but not implementation. You should be able to use repair to avoid detonation (flood magazines) so at least it's not purely RNG.

 

That idea I do like....like you'd get a little warning saying you'll detonate if you don't fix that fire or flooding every now and then....or something

[Shirakami_Kon]

Pros:

They are fun for the shooter - people might say they feel dirty for detonating someone but it's still a positive experience to detonate someone.

 

Well, yeah... Until the stars align in your favor and you see that three enemy ships detonate... and you're "responsible" for all of those three detonations. Something is bad when you get massively reported because of something that's not your fault but you can't even feel mad because of it because you understand how ridiculous the situation is. 

 

Cons:

They are not fun for the receiver - nobody has ever been pleased they were detonated. to have your ship destroyed when you thought you were safe is an understandably distasteful experience.

 

*Remembers a Izumo detonating his Yamato while angled bow on to the Izumo*

 

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure it was some kind of karma retribution for my situation with the pro? Not RNG at all, detonations are fine.