IFHE on Bismarck: Yes or No?

[Hades_warrior]

I like the named ship secondary's, so I stuck in dilema about getting few more captain points and get IFHE skill, or skip it.

For now my commander is 12 points with 8.4 km range on secondarys, but im thinkin to add or IFHE, or extend that range to 10 km.

Few of my friends are having IFHE on theyr Bismarck's and they are very happy with it (thats why I end in dilema about getting it to).

But on youtube I saw many think IFHE is not good for Bismarck as its 30% increased armor penetration is for -130 mm guns (or close to that number).

And Bismarck have only 5-6 of 128 mm guns, and IFHE is better on Gneisenau (11 guns) and Kurfurst.

 

I have only 60 Dragon flags which I planing to spend on Bismarck.

What do you think? Should i go IFHE 8.4 km or stay normal HE but full range? I know some may think that those extra 1.5 km isn't life changing, but I dont know.

[ScratxNeko]

No IFHE necessary, there are no real interesting thresholds to be crossed with the secondaries by taking IFHE on Bisko.

 

The key to understanding this is looking at the calibers and knowing that they pen 1/4 of their calibre. The 105's pen 25mm armor, the 150mm pen 37mm. This pretty much means that, while you DO get to pen 32mm armor plating with the 105's and possibly pen some of the 40mm plating that can be found, you lose fire chance in return.

 

Sadly, you're much more likely to get more damage out of the fires you're giving up than the few plates you get to pen you otherwise couldn't.

 

The case on the Grosse Kurfurst and Gneisenau is much stronger because the 128mm secondaries they got can then go on to pen 40mm plating, which is found in some armored decks of I believe high tier BBs and of course pen the 32mm plates they otherwise couldn't. But even there it's debatable.

 

Just take manual secondaries and AFT.

 

 

Oh, and let me correct you... again, BISMARCK DOES NOT HAVE 128mm SECONDARIES. ONLY GNEISENAU TOP HULL AND GROSSE KURFURST HAVE THOSE.

[Hades_warrior]

I forgot to mention, I already have AFT and manual secondarys. Only I could more set is BFT for 10% faster reload and maybe that skill for 3% increased fire damage for penalty from IFHE.

 

Btw why you using Caps?

[beercrazy]

i would say no pal

I would take aft, manual secondary and then I would choose the manual fire control for aa

[Migulaitor]

I wouldt use IFHE, 4 points for a specific buff and a general nerf is not worthy IMO, I have this build on my Bis: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0100100000000010000001001000100119 you will appear at 12.3km, the secondary range is 10.6, the enemy just dont have time to disengage and you can also ambush some cruisers. I considered changing CE for Manual AA, but with the little amount of carriers I scrapped the idea.

[Hades_warrior]

Nice setup. I have similar only without AFT and Concealment.

You dont need Fire Prevention and BoS for -15% fire? I know Bismarck burns very offen in the battles since you are most wanted target and everyone hit you with HE.

[beercrazy]

I personally don't bother with concealment because if I can see it I shoot it and tbh when your shooting stuff at around 20k concealment don't mean diddly squat

I also push to around 10km to 8km range to get those secondary guns on target and I find most of the time team will support a aggressive bb

concealment is always good on cruisers and a must for dds but I find bbs are gonna be spotted from the moon anyway once they fire and I feel you miss out on too many better captain skills by using 4 points in concealment

 

I would recommend getting the public test server and going on that and trying out the captain builds to see what you think of em because its damned expensive changing the builds to find something you like or works well for you

[Hades_warrior]

Concealment is good for Carolina. I know many players are using it on her, including some popular streamers.

 

Ah, yea. PTS. I forgot about that and its very good idea to test all there. When is next server open?

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

105 secondaries do not have the 1/4 caliber rule. 

These will crack 19mm with IFHE. 

 

But I would not spend 4p on that, since they do not need to penetrate to set fires and you will also lower your firechance overall with IFHE. 

[Hades_warrior]

Which ships having armor 25 mm on t6-10?

 

One of mention friends with Bismarck is using Demolition Expert with IFHE, so he dont lose fire chance.

[_Grim_]

Taking IFHE on Bismarck only reduces your secondary effectiveness.The 105s pen 17 mm normally.Adding 30 % more doesn't make it go over 25 mm (common cruiser plating) which makes IPHE useless on them.The 150s pen 37 mm, so IFHE is useless as that is already over 32 mm (common BB deck and bow plating).

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

105 will crack 19mm superstructures with IFHE but, as I said, it is not worth fire chance reduction and 4p. 

[Migulaitor]

Nice setup. I have similar only without AFT and Concealment.

You dont need Fire Prevention and BoS for -15% fire? I know Bismarck burns very offen in the battles since you are most wanted target and everyone hit you with HE.

 

I picked AFT with 10 points (range is important to scare your enemy+AA increase) with 14 manual secondaries for the extra accuracy, with 18 the concealment and then the second fighters because nothing else was usefull.

About the anti fire skills and modules, well, if they can not see you they can not burn you CE allows you to ambush cruisers and jump into lonely BBs, it also makes easier to run away disengage and repair 

[ScratxNeko]

I forgot to mention, I already have AFT and manual secondarys. Only I could more set is BFT for 10% faster reload and maybe that skill for 3% increased fire damage for penalty from IFHE.

 

Btw why you using Caps?

 

Consider Adrenaline Rush if you don't already have it. Faster primary and secondary firing rates the more damage you take is awesome.

 

105 secondaries do not have the 1/4 caliber rule. 

These will crack 19mm with IFHE. 

 

But I would not spend 4p on that, since they do not need to penetrate to set fires and you will also lower your firechance overall with IFHE. 

 

German battleship secondaries do get 1/4 rule instead of 1/6, unless something's changed. Graf Spee, oddly enough, also gets 1/4.

[Mehmeds]

IFHE on secondaries is only usefull on few KM BBs, one of them being Kurfurst. The thing is, theyre only usefull if youre going balls deep really close, for your secondaries to have flat trajectory, so they could hit Bow or Aft of BBs, two parts they can now penetrate thanks to IFHE. Ive had some battles in it, but the potential for the additional damage wasnt as good as effect of Fire Prevention, which i took instead of IFHE after skill reset. FP is overall great skill to take on high tier BBs, and is totally viable choice. Especially on KM BBs, as they catch fire better than other nations due to amount of superstructure on their decks.

[Admiral_noodle]

I would say no. Just not worth it. Get AFT BFT manual secondaries. Adrenaline rush then spec for survival. Put fire flags on. Maybe even DE. But generally damage over time and not dying too soon is more effective than IFHE. It's not like the secondaries will aim at bits they can pen reliably anyway.

 

I could probably prove it with maths.

[Hades_warrior]

 

I picked AFT with 10 points (range is important to scare your enemy+AA increase) with 14 manual secondaries for the extra accuracy, with 18 the concealment and then the second fighters because nothing else was usefull.

About the anti fire skills and modules, well, if they can not see you they can not burn you CE allows you to ambush cruisers and jump into lonely BBs, it also makes easier to run away disengage and repair 

 

So, your way to go is AFT + Concealment. Sounds good.

 

IFHE on secondaries is only usefull on few KM BBs, one of them being Kurfurst. The thing is, theyre only usefull if youre going balls deep really close, for your secondaries to have flat trajectory, so they could hit Bow or Aft of BBs, two parts they can now penetrate thanks to IFHE. Ive had some battles in it, but the potential for the additional damage wasnt as good as effect of Fire Prevention, which i took instead of IFHE after skill reset. FP is overall great skill to take on high tier BBs, and is totally viable choice. Especially on KM BBs, as they catch fire better than other nations due to amount of superstructure on their decks.

 

Glad to hear this from personal testing.

 

So now my idea insead of IFHE is Concealment  + Fire Prevention + BFT.

I really hate to burn in BB's like a torch like 50% of time of battles, so FP would fit perfect here.

 

This is the build I could use http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0000100000000010000010001100100019

Since no space left for Concealment I have that skill as upgrade on modules on ship.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

Again:

 

150mm secondaries have the 1/4 caliber rule, which is why they never need IFHE. 

 

105mm have the 1/6 caliber rule, which is why they will only crack 19mm with IFHE, which is not worth it. 

[Gojuadorai]

go on take it just make sure youre not on my team

[Hades_warrior]

go on take it just make sure youre not on my team

 

Whats that suppose to mean?

[Mehmeds]

 

So, your way to go is AFT + Concealment. Sounds good.

 

 

Glad to hear this from personal testing.

 

So now my idea insead of IFHE is Concealment  + Fire Prevention + BFT.

I really hate to burn in BB's like a torch like 50% of time of battles, so FP would fit perfect here.

 

This is the build I could use http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0000100000000010000010001100100019

Since no space left for Concealment I have that skill as upgrade on modules on ship.

 

Looks solid, and same as mine, actually. Last point i invested into Preventive meintenance, stacks with secondary and AA protection modules, and saves main battery quite a bit. Solid choice for last point.

 

 

Gojuadorai, on 21 March 2017 - 02:06 AM, said:

go on take it just make sure youre not on my team

 

Whats that suppose to mean? 

 

Just a random internet guy, that instead of joining in the conversation, prefers to attack and flame people for their ideas.

 

 

On the last note from me, i believe concealment build would be passable, but takes away your early torp warning from ship module. It should bring down concealment to maybe something like 12-13 KM for Bismarck at best, 14 KM for Kurfurst. I never chose it tho, since when battle starts youre not gonna disengage, as your main function is brawler. On Yama and Monty on the other hand, stealth build is godlike, as players instantly forget youre there, broadsiding them with guns.

But i will leave this to personal choice. After all, if one can make it work, its viable.

[Widar_Thule]

I do not have IFHE as a skill for any of my ship commanders, yet. I will however probably reset the skills on one of my 19 skill point commanders which I use on "BISMARCK"/"TIRPITZ" to try IFHE out just for fun. To see if it is worth the four skill points I will probably end up do a series of tests, both with and without IFHE.

 

Since the implementation of the new commander skills in 2017 I have reset the skills on that "BISMARCK"/"TIRPITZ" 19 skill point commander twice. One variant had the commander setup totally for damage control and survival, the other variant was setup for maximum (manual) AAA. The damage control variant was unspectacular, the AAA setup is pretty decent and also increases secondary and tertiary gun range.

 

As to why IFHE can be interesting to use, take a look at this link:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/5ordcb/datamined_list_of_ifhe_penetration_changes/

 

Based on that link one can assume that IFHE for "BISMARCK"/"TIRPITZ" is not just useful their secondary (15 cm) and tertiary armament (10.5 cm) but also for their main armament (38 cm) according to the data mined data on reddit:

 

C = can pen 19/25/32mm (Examples: YYN = can pen 19 and 25mm, YYY = can pen 19 25 and 32mm)

Names suffixed with * are secondaries

 

Name  -  Alpha -   Base Pen - IFHE Pen - C - IFHE C - Ships

380 mm Spr.Gr. L/4.6

4400

95.00

123.50

YYY

YYY

Gneisenau, Bismarck, Tirpitz

150 mm Spr.Gr. L/4.5

1700

37.00

48.10

YYY

YYY

Großer Kurfürst*, Friedrich der Große*, Roon*, Gneisenau*, Scharnhorst*, Bismarck*, Admiral Graf Spee*, Tirpitz*

128 mm Spr.Gr. Kz.

1500

31.00

40.30

YYN

YYY

Großer Kurfürst*, Gneisenau*

105 mm Spr.Gr. Kz.

1300

18.00

23.40

NNN

YNN

Hindenburg*, Bayern*, Friedrich der Große*, Roon*, Gneisenau*, Scharnhorst*, Prinz Eugen*, Bismarck*, Admiral Graf Spee*, Admiral Hipper*, Tirpitz*, Yorck*, König*

 

Based on that data "BISMARCK"/"TIRPITZ" can penetrate 123 mm of armour with IFHE rounds with their armament (38 cm) from any angle angle since IFHE, unlike AP, practically ignores angle of impact for armour penetration purposes and always explodes on impact, unlike AP.

 

There is a video with a German battleship IFHE experiment:

 

 

Jingles, among many others, also made an interesting video about IFHE:

 

 

[Darth_Glorious]

No, 105 mm already has one of the best fire chance in the game for its caliber.

[Hades_warrior]

 

Looks solid, and same as mine, actually. Last point i invested into Preventive meintenance, stacks with secondary and AA protection modules, and saves main battery quite a bit. Solid choice for last point.

 

On the last note from me, i believe concealment build would be passable, but takes away your early torp warning from ship module. It should bring down concealment to maybe something like 12-13 KM for Bismarck at best, 14 KM for Kurfurst. I never chose it tho, since when battle starts youre not gonna disengage, as your main function is brawler. On Yama and Monty on the other hand, stealth build is godlike, as players instantly forget youre there, broadsiding them with guns.

But i will leave this to personal choice. After all, if one can make it work, its viable.

 

Yea. For last point I also had in mind to spend on PM. Very usefull.

 

Didnt know Concealment bad effect on torpedo warnings. Even with radar?

Concealment might be good when you engage into battle 1 on 1, but its useless if there is more ships around you and you dont have a safe spot for heal yourself.

[krautjaeger]

I like the named ship secondary's, so I stuck in dilema about getting few more captain points and get IFHE skill, or skip it.

For now my commander is 12 points with 8.4 km range on secondarys, but im thinkin to add or IFHE, or extend that range to 10 km.

 

Few of my friends are having IFHE on theyr Bismarck's and they are very happy with it (thats why I end in dilema about getting it to).

But on youtube I saw many think IFHE is not good for Bismarck as its 30% increased armor penetration is for -130 mm guns (or close to that number).

And Bismarck have only 5-6 of 128 mm guns, and IFHE is better on Gneisenau (11 guns) and Kurfurst.

 

I have only 60 Dragon flags which I planing to spend on Bismarck.

What do you think? Should i go IFHE 8.4 km or stay normal HE but full range? I know some may think that those extra 1.5 km isn't life changing, but I dont know.

 

Public Test is out, try there and see.