scharnhorst or mikhail kutuzov

[chaosrealm93]

im probably gonna get a new premium soon,  what should it be?

i want something fun and not painfully hard to play (ex. pensacola, NO, baltimore etc)

 

*both would be useful in my grind towards either nations T10 CA

[Aotearas]

Both are incredibly performant ships and very good captain trainers for their nations. I also think they cost roughly about the same ...

 

 

So really, it's a matter of playstyle preferences.

Do you like an in-yo-face playstyle? In that case you can't go wrong in a Scharnhorst: tough, fast, incredibly lethal against cruisers and still plenty enough punch to hurt BBs.

Or do you prefer a more supportive, behind-the-scenes playstyle? That's what the Mikhail Kutuzov excells at, flinging HE shells at distant targets of all sorts, protect nearby ships from CV strikes and generally being an immense nuisance to the enemy as you steadily chip away their health.

 

I would say the Scharnhorst edges out on simple fun factor, but I like to play BBs and I'm stupidly aggressive in them anyway so naturally I like a ship that's very good at exactly that.

[chaosrealm93]

Both are incredibly performant ships and very good captain trainers for their nations. I also think they cost roughly about the same ...

 

 

So really, it's a matter of playstyle preferences.

Do you like an in-yo-face playstyle? In that case you can't go wrong in a Scharnhorst: tough, fast, incredibly lethal against cruisers and still plenty enough punch to hurt BBs.

Or do you prefer a more supportive, behind-the-scenes playstyle? That's what the Mikhail Kutuzov excells at, flinging HE shells at distant targets of all sorts, protect nearby ships from CV strikes and generally being an immense nuisance to the enemy as you steadily chip away their health.

 

I would say the Scharnhorst edges out on simple fun factor, but I like to play BBs and I'm stupidly aggressive in them anyway so naturally I like a ship that's very good at exactly that.

 

i got the zao first and for a while, i thought it was the best CA, bar none

but slowly the magic wore off and then came time to grind for the DM.  i was a little put off the grind initially because of the slow shell speed and large citadel, but after learning and playing around it, i find its easily the better CA

 

now im ready for my 3rd T10 CA (and possibly a zao replacement)

it just seems no matter what i do and how tryhard i play, i cant break even, nevermind MAKE any money in the zao

*and the amount of broadside you have to give to shoot all guns and/or torp bugs me

 

so what that being said , i guess im used to the in-yo-face playstyle of the DM

but i also miss the days of long range invisible HE spamming XD

 

what do........  what do.....

[159Hunter]

Well, you play a lot more cruisers and you're in the process of grinding up to Moskva if I can guess correctly? In that case, having a Kutuzov will help you get that extra potential with a 19 points captain a lot faster. Plus, it's a very good credit - free xp earner. If you insist on going for the GK, buy the Shiney Horse. It's all up to what you want to achieve.

On a sidenote: the reason you seem to struggle with Zao is your hit ratio. You are subpar on that part, so you'll get less damage and less xp - money. But why that is, no idea ( could be positioning, or just the aiming itself ). Try improving that and your money gain should increase?

[The_Great_SCH]

Kutuzov all the way. Damage potential is much higher, more fun to play. And the way i see it, the captain training part is better, since it can be useful to trains CA and DD captains as well. Shiny horse is a fun ship to play on the other hand, and it has the mostly-top-tier advantage, but if you like high tier games, i recommend Kutuzov, since it can get T6 games a lot of times.

[kalamies]

I prefer horst, it can take much more hits and it has good guns with fast reload. With 20sec reload you can deal lots of damage no matter what ship you face. Kutusov is one big citadel sailing with bad concealment. Its gun arcs are bad and hitting targets from distance is really hard. Also it has 11.1km concealment at its best which is bad for cruiser. And since its T8 be ready to face lots of T10 boats that are more than happy to hammer you. And sitting in smoke is not option, kutu accelerates like granny with amputated leg from the chair in the morning. Rudder turns as fast as your goverment...

[captain_lef]

I prefer horst, it can take much more hits and it has good guns with fast reload. With 20sec reload you can deal lots of damage no matter what ship you face. Kutusov is one big citadel sailing with bad concealment. Its gun arcs are bad and hitting targets from distance is really hard. Also it has 11.1km concealment at its best which is bad for cruiser. And since its T8 be ready to face lots of T10 boats that are more than happy to hammer you. And sitting in smoke is not option, kutu accelerates like granny with amputated leg from the chair in the morning. Rudder turns as fast as your goverment...

 

you know its a support ship right? and gun arcs? really? well if you want to shoot things behind rocks then yes, the kutuzov is not for you, get an atlanta or grind the brits. like aotearas said, it depends on your playstyle. i vote kutuzov, because i started to enjoy cruisers very much lately. at least you hit what you aim

[VC381]

Kutuzov, you're already a cruiser player the ship is insanely strong and rewarding in good hands. T8 premiums make more credits as well.

[kalamies]

I do know its like support ship, but "real" support ships have low arc, great shell velocity and better armor. If you want weak ship spamming HE from distance and only dealing low damage go ahead. Everytime i spot kutusov its 2 volleys and its dead or running. But dont mind my experience, you can listen these guys with wr around 50. Horst has more effect in outcome of match.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

i like them both , but Kutusov i rather take

[iJoby]

In my opinion, If I was you, I would grind the Bayern some more games and get the Gneisenau, play that ship until you have confidence enough to buy and play the Scharnhorst, you also need to survive more games than you do. be more strategic, read the minimap before you make any attack.

But if you do buy a premium ship then buy the Scharnhorst, It will fit better to your aggressive playstyle. 

[VC381]

I do know its like support ship, but "real" support ships have low arc, great shell velocity and better armor. If you want weak ship spamming HE from distance and only dealing low damage go ahead. Everytime i spot kutusov its 2 volleys and its dead or running. But dont mind my experience, you can listen these guys with wr around 50. Horst has more effect in outcome of match.

 

Huh?! Kutuzov has one of the flattest arcs of any ship with 152mm guns. Of course some of the 203mm cruisers have better arcs but they lose out on volume of fire. Kutuzov is very accurate in my experience out to its frankly obscene max range and now with IFHE is an extremely solid damage dealer (not that she wasn't before). You say she's sluggish, I switched to propulsion module plus super rudder shift. Sure concealment is bad but it doesn't matter when you only have about 30 seconds downtime between smokes and you can actually dodge quite well with that setup. You can be way more aggressive in Kutuzov than e.g. Chapayev and still get away with it.

[ShinGetsu]

I do know its like support ship, but "real" support ships have low arc, great shell velocity and better armor. If you want weak ship spamming HE from distance and only dealing low damage go ahead. Everytime i spot kutusov its 2 volleys and its dead or running. But dont mind my experience, you can listen these guys with wr around 50. Horst has more effect in outcome of match.

Lol

[kalamies]

http://wows-numbers.com/ships/compare/?id[0]=3763287856&id[1]=3762206160

 

You can see which one is actually sailing glass citadel with low damage dealing. And the other is real BATTLESHIP with great guns and good armor. It might seem nice to spam HE from distance and deal some damage but when you get close kutu gets erased fast once spotted. You dont even need to get spotted, since once you put up smoke and DD is in range you will eat some torps.

[HotshotJimmy]

Kutuzov has smoke. Nothing more to be said 

 

[Rexdaman]

Kutuzov is a beast in the hands of an xp cruiser player. 

T10 MM isent really a problem. so i would go for the MK. 

But if you like the lover MM. go for the shinyhorse.. 

[Aotearas]

Kutuzov all the way. Damage potential is much higher, more fun to play. And the way i see it, the captain training part is better, since it can be useful to trains CA and DD captains as well. Shiny horse is a fun ship to play on the other hand, and it has the mostly-top-tier advantage, but if you like high tier games, i recommend Kutuzov, since it can get T6 games a lot of times.

 

I'd actually say the captain training potential is equal. Scharnhorst doesn't only do great with BB captains but synergizes surprisingly well with cruiser captains (same way Kutuzov also works for RU DD captains).

And damage potential is rather in favour for the Scharnhorst imho. The AP is absolutely nasty against cruisers (fewer overpens due to the lower caliber, but still plenty enough punch not to bounce/shatter), pretty good secondaries and torpedoes for brawls (plus the armour and HP to survive going into a brawl) and you might be surprised how much HE and firedamage you can rack up on angled BBs if you put a CA captain with the DE skill on that ship. And any BB that gives you a juicy flat side to shoot, easily 8-10k AP volleys every 20 seconds (or faster with AR perk after a bit of battering).

 

[kalamies]

At this point you should know what happens when you pop up smoke and start firing from it. Every ship that has torpedos is likely to put torps into that smoke.

 

These are the things that i know/see trough my unicum blinded eyes. But if average player says its op then it must be op. I just feel that most of the players see only the bright side of this ship and ignore facts and statistics. Maybe because they dont know it or simply dont care. It can be fun tho to fire couple salvos, get focused, then get hit in citadel, pop up smoke and get torped in smoke. Atleast you managed to deal 20-50k damage. That happens 80% of cases. Kutusov relys heavily to team support and cant perform on its own. Smoke doesent make ship good. If i were you id pick horst.

[ShinGetsu]

At this point you should know what happens when you pop up smoke and start firing from it. Every ship that has torpedos is likely to put torps into that smoke.

 

These are the things that i know/see trough my unicum blinded eyes. But if average player says its op then it must be op. I just feel that most of the players see only the bright side of this ship and ignore facts and statistics. Maybe because they dont know it or simply dont care. It can be fun tho to fire couple salvos, get focused, then get hit in citadel, pop up smoke and get torped in smoke. Atleast you managed to deal 20-50k damage. That happens 80% of cases. Kutusov relys heavily to team support and cant perform on its own. Smoke doesent make ship good. If i were you id pick horst.

 

20-50k damage ? Lately it's more like 90-120k each time I go into battle with my MK.

 

I just love how you put yourself in your unicum pedestal, "look, I KNOW". I may have 56%WR; but I can say for sure I absolutely love my MK, and that ship is basically a monster in the right hands.

IFHE skills allows to do tremendous damage to anything you may fight, balistic and smoke allows MK to pop smoke at 12-15km (which means way out of most torpedoes range), and anyway any player that knows what he's doing is smoking near a cover.

 

 

Facts are : MK is a great damage dealer, much easier to use in tier 10 battle than Atago thanks to the smoke and the gun range, it has good torpedoes, and in the worst case you can just zigzag at 15-17km while still spamming. And let's not forget the awesome 152mm AP that punch holes at anything getting closer than 12km.

 

Btw you may be "unicum" but you're not that great in high tier battle. I don't think you should talk too much about MK when you reach 53%WR with NC and 49% with Iowa, with damage stats comparable or lower to mine.

Thanks your Königsberg (and MK, lol, your stats are high for a "bad ship") for your winrate.

[iJoby]

20-50k damage ? Lately it's more like 90-120k each time I go into battle with my MK

 

What is the point in how you or  kalamies play with the MK,  chaosrealm93 is not in your league of skills, the OP is asking which ship he should buy, not how good you play with those ships, try and help him with facts about the ship and his playstyle looking at his stats.

[VC381]

Being Unicum doesn't make you right about everything. Having said that, you have 96k average damage and 74% win rate in Kutuzov, how can you possibly trash talk the ship based on that? You complain we're focusing on positives only but you're an outright hypocrite.

[Gojuadorai]

point to mention:

 

if youre intrested in ranked KUTU is a good T8 ranked boat (which is probably next season since it looks like they alternate t7 and T8)

[and yes scharn is a good T7 but as i assume alternating seasons that is a while]

[Devantejah]

Get Scharnhorst.

 

It's easy to play and is very tough.

[The_Great_SCH]

It all depends on what the OP wants really, some fun, then Scharnhorst (we all know about the fancy T7 MM), if he wants to improve, then MK is better for that. Yes, i agree that it is a harder ship to play, you really have to know your role to do well in her, it is not as forgiving as a german BB, but you can still have fun. 

[kalamies]

if you pick 2 bad ships and make judgment depending on those ships, you just simply refuse to see big picture. Im not even going to start to see trought your stats and find ship that you suck in. For example to look yamato stats and say that you perform worst than me in high tier BBs and therefore you are unable to judge horst. Or say that i have 20% better wr and 45k better avg damage in kutusov than you and therefore far more experienced in it than you. Just deal with it.

 

Still i say that you should pick horst over kutu.