Algérie, Henri IV and Duca d'Aosta preliminary stats

[0ddys]

Well Saint Louis and Martell are both from the same project, knowing this the Martel is actually at T IX.

 

[Trainspite]

 

If Algérie is OP, then Myoko and Shchors are too...

 

I just can't see how you can describes this ship as "OP". It's a fragile long and middle range HE spammer. 

 

Don't compare it with Yorck. If anything it's Yorck which is too weak.

As for Martel, the 10 seconds reload is the only interesting point of the ship actually. You don't have the utility of a New Orleans because you don't have a radar, but you're faster.

 

I can't see them as OP, really. Kutuzov and Atago are both far stronger than Martel. Even current Mogami with 155 actually is probably stronger than any other standard CAs.

 

Funnily enough, I have long gone on record of saying that Myoko. She retains a lot of her tier 8 stats, including a better RoF than any of the following IJN Cruisers. Shchors I have less experience of, but her firepower is brutal for the tier, and the poor maneuverability doesn't quite balance it out. 

 

Algerie was fairly tough for me. I know she has an above water citadel, but angling went a long way, I tanked my way through quite a few cruisers. Chasing down an angled Myoko with AP, and he failed to pen me, while I was getting 1 or 2 citadels per salvo, every salvo, even when angling. Her HE is absolutely fine as well, and her long range just expands her influence across the map, making BBs very unhappy. In fact, aside from the thing aside from the above water citadel that is poor about the ship is the turret arcs, which are more restricting than the other ships.

 

Algerie is the contemporary to Hipper remember, and 1 has been downtierred, and the few disadvantages it has are not balancing out the other good attributes of the ship. 

 

Yorck is absolutely fine, and I don't understand why people say it is bad. She performs with HE, though the AP is worthless. She is average in a lot of respects, a pretty solid ship with no real weaknesses outside of the bad AP. Yorck being bad is a case of Git gut.

 

10s is the only interesting part because it is the part that sets her apart from the rest by being too good. In other respects, she is what I would call a distinctly average tier 8 cruiser. No thrills, no spills. She does everything decently, with a few tricks and a few downsides carried on from Algerie. Having the best reload on good competitive 8" guns was a completely needless buff, 12s on 9 guns was already good enough for the job at tier 8. The ship compared favourably to the other regular tier 8 cruisers. 10s is just silly.

 

Kutuzov & Atago have needless consumables. And neither are far stronger. While testing, my Martel outperformed the Atago/Takao I have, but a large margin. Circa 70k average vs the 56k on the Takao. The 10s reload goes a long way. 15 / 17% fire chance every 10 seconds compared to 17 - 19% every 15/16s on Takao. One is distinctly better. The AP broadsides every 10 seconds is comparable to what tier 9 cruisers get. The damage Martel can put out is simply insane for a tier 8 cruiser. Mogami with the 155s is a case of wait and see for me. I haven't seen a lot around, and I have been able to dodge their fire when they turned their attention to me.

 

Well lets see what Ibuki has over Mogami in the game:

better torps - soft stat

better range - soft stat

better AA - soft stats in the eyes of WG, both 40mm and 100mm guns werent planned for Ibuki afaik

 

Other than that its has identical guns and armor. Health, maneuverability and concealment is actually slightly worse than Mogami. With IFHE the 155mm guns are far better than 203s... So really, other than the tier 9 module there isnt any real difference between the two. Ibuki was historically a repeat of Mogami.

 

Anyways Fargo and Oregon City perfectly makes up the holes in their respective tech trees. They would get both tier 9 module and better radar. With that I cant see how it doesn't fit the standard WG already set. Ibuki to me was pretty strong, all it needed was a tier 9 module to make the ship play completely different from how I played Mogami.

 

If they move New Orleans down they can get rid of that ROF buff. These wonky american treaty cruisers are better off being lower tiered imo.

 

Also I refuse to see Wichita be anything other than a premium.

 

Ibuki has:

- Worse HP

- Better citadel slope & Deck armour

- Worse dispersion

- Longer Range

- Better torpedoes (Mogami should only have triples, but reasons)

- Better AA (by a long way)

- 0.5kn faster

- Worse rudder shift (by 0.2s) and 20m longer turning circle.

- Worse concealment.

 

+ Access to the tier 9 modules

 

All can be considered soft stats since WG has the final say over them, though some may be more soft than others. 

 

I do understand why piritskenyer was raging so much about the Ibuki when he was playing her in battle while I was in the division. She doesn't look like a brilliant ship, and is not a whole lot more of an upgrade.

 

However, Ibuki has a few more differences, for better or for worse than Baltimore & Oregon City. 

Oregon city has a slightly different AA loadout, but eventually comes up equal, or slightly worse. HP may be slightly more or less. Probably less since she has a single funnel over 2. And that is about it. There is literally no point trying to split Oregon City & Baltimore over 2 tiers. Ibuki is more different than Mogami, and is plausible as the IJN have no other tier 9 cruiser candidate. The USN has New Orleans & Wichita for tier 8. Baltimore & Oregon City for tier 9. There isn't a point to it. Why buff an Oregon City over a tier 8 Baltimore when you can buff the current Baltimore?

 

New Orleans doesn't need to be moved down. She was an average cruiser after the RoF buff, but then OP Martel comes in and does basically everything better.

 

Wichita is a decent bet for either a premium, or a second line of CAs. Unless I want to wheel out that 12x 8" gun Pensacola preliminary design for a tier 8 regular. I'll attach what I think of USN CAs in an image.

 

 

 

 

[ShinGetsu]

 

​If you think the Martel isn't better then you're playing it wrong, its true strength is its ability to reliably hit at very long range combined with very good AP. Add in the speed boost, comfortable turret setup, firing arcs and rotating speed, good maneuvrability and torpedoes and this makes the Martel a very versatile ship even without special tools like radar. No matter the distance it wrecks broadsides with AP and against angled ships it sets fires every second salvo. Like Flamu said, it won't be a competitive ship because it's a jack-of-all-trades but it is a very strong ship. It could easily fit at tier 9.

 

I'm still grinding Algérie, I'll see when I get there.

But I do still think Kutuzov is the strongest tier 8 CA. Its ability to farm damage is second to none.

 

And if you saw last Aerron video on Mogami, for me it's clearly the second best CA at the moment. 10k HE salvoes are easy, and IJN's 155 are railguns on top of that.

 

As for Algérie, I'm still convinced she is fairly balanced at her tier. Shchors with IFHE was better, even. 

The only thing I found funny as hell with Algérie was fighting a Fiji at close range. He tried to citadel me, and his very short AP fuse each time detonated inside the spaced armor, leaving me with 0 damage.^^

Actually, when playing with hydro, the french CAs are very good counters against british CLs. Spaced armor protect the citadel, they are agile enough to dodge torps (or at worse tank some of them), and AP are great. And Henri IV can even overmatch Neptune and Minotaur armor.

[ImperialAdmiral]

Well I free XP my way from tier VI to VIII and have to say I don't regret it.

 

Charles Martel is a very fun ship to play. With the speed rare speed boost module it can act as quick response ship that can change flank rapidy and support those that are in need. HE has a nice punch, AP is decent.

Biggest disadvantage is of course lack of armour and small HP pool. On tier IX, X matchmaking you can get deleted instantly.

[Darth_Glorious]

1 tip for Henri IV : don't show your stern to enemy BBs, you will get citadels everytime. Bow tanking is much better than stern tanking in the case of Henri IV.

[Comrad_StaIin]

Charles Martel is indeed pretty OP enen in tier 10 games you dont struggle

[ImperialAdmiral]

I can't find any info about it.

 

Does Saint-Louis hull A got spotting aircraft or not?

[Darth_Glorious]

I can't find any info about it.

 

Does Saint-Louis hull A got spotting aircraft or not?

 

Yes, hull A has spotting aircraft.

[ImperialAdmiral]

 

Yes, hull A has spotting aircraft.

 

Thank you for answering this.

[Sander93]

Been playing with the Henri IV in the test server and I've been having a blast in it. Starts fires better than Zao and the AP is absolutely brutal (lots of 12-20k volleys on cruisers) at all distances.

It can penetrate Montana citadel (broadside) at 10km!

Going 44 knots in a cruiser is fun, it's pretty easy to dodge shells and you can easily relocate to better positions (or run like hell) with that speed.

[Azakeit]

Really ? I remember updating my HE/AP DPM chart and fires per minute about the Henri 4 when he was last buffed before the release, and it was still behind everyone in HE/AP DPM and just above Moskva in the Fires per minute (4.7 fires per minutes on the Moskva and 5.001 for the Henri 4). Did he was again changed recently ?

[Sander93]

 

Frankly I don't understand why you'd put so much faith into charts and statistics. AP DPM on Des Moines is useless in battle if you can't get close enough to reliably hit, and this fires per minute stuff is useless in battle as well because RNG does not work like that. I've hit ships 50 times in a row with Des Moines HE and not started a single fire.

 

Henri IV on the other hand has the gun charactaristics to properly hit stuff at long ranges which gives its AP much more potential. It seems far easier to hit citadels on cruisers on longer ranges and on angled targets, and the AP does more damage as well. Battleship-like salvos of 12-20k damage on cruisers are pretty common. What matters more than this fires per minute nonsense is the ability to hit and the fire chance per salvo, at which the Henri ranks among the top with its 26% fire chance.

 

Not to mention other statistics like the speed that allow the ship to actually continue to use its DPM for longer. The Henri can just run away from a fight it can't win (yesterday I just ran away from two Yamatos, a Montana, a Grozovoi and a Baltimore and wrecked them afterwards) or easily relocate to better positions.

 

[Azakeit]

Because unlike your stats, basic charts and probability are not biased by RNG, that's precisely the point, IF you're consistent in the ship you play, the RNG tend to be closer and closer to the probability.

 

H4 is outclassed in long range accuracy by the Moskva and the Zao, and both those ships already deal more HE DPM, and the firePM is close, so with those ships you can hit more shells than the H4, thus dealing more dmg.

 

and in AP category, Moskva still has better penetration values at any ranges, better accuracy and DPM so...

[Sander93]

Because unlike your stats, basic charts and probability are not biased by RNG, that's precisely the point, IF you're consistent in the ship you play, the RNG tend to be closer and closer to the probability.

 

H4 is outclassed in long range accuracy by the Moskva and the Zao, and both those ships already deal more HE DPM, and the firePM is close, so with those ships you can hit more shells than the H4, thus dealing more dmg.

 

and in AP category, Moskva still has better penetration values at any ranges, better accuracy and DPM so...

 

Basic charts and probability go out the window the moment you hit that battle button, because paper statistics become worthless in anything other than ideal circumstances. The Des Moines for example has the best DPM on paper but the opportunities ingame to use it are scarce. Charts and statistics are highly influenced by all kinds of circumstances in battle and imo they say nothing about the true performance of a ship.  

 

Long range accuracy is completely neglectable because we're talking about a few meters at maximum range here. Same for Mosvka's AP penetration which is only slightly better. Regarding HE DPM you once again neglect ingame circumstances, because while the Zao has more HE DPM on a full broadside it's also more risky for the Zao to fully use that potential because of the bad turret arcs. What you also seem to forget completely is that the Henri gets torpedoes with some the best forward firing arcs in the game (no exposure while firing and enemies rarely notice you fire torpedoes in the first place). The 44 knots top speed (and ~33 knots while turning) means enemies usually miss the ship at range and it also allows to run away from a bad position or to relocate to other parts of the map (once again something that increases effective 'dpm' while being invisible in the raw charts and statistics).

 

And anyway I've never said the Henri is better than the others, I said that it's a fun ship to play with. It's equal in performance to the other tier 10s with just enough defining charactaristics (especially the speed boost) to make her refreshing to play. My average damage (150k in 13 matches) on PTS is about the same as my Zao and Hindenburg (~130-140k damage).

 

 

The PTS server went down straight after but I just did a 395.000 damage game in the Henri lol.

 

[Azakeit]

long range accuracy depends on shell flight time too, the quicker the shells are (Zao and Moskva) the less the target can react and mmove away, so more shells hits the target.

 

Zao can stay max range broadside and giggle enough to survive without the need of 44knots speed.

 

About your original post you said you set fires more than Zao, which baffled me Zao still the best firestarter (DM is techically the best but you need to aim very precisely), so that's why i was asking if a buff occured.

[Sander93]

In practise I find that the Henri is better at starting fires because of the higher chance per shell. Sets fires even more reliably in my ingame experience.

Also see below for record score. Don't have battle report sadly because the server restarted.

 

[Darth_Glorious]

LOL, I detonated Bismarck with Henri IV AP 

 

[phoenix_jz]

Out of curiosity, has anyone yet found the drag value for the French 8" AP?

[Darth_Glorious]

Colbert is far far away, and I doubt that it will come with Pan Asia branch (project 56 DDs), the last branch for this year.

 

https://worldofwarships.asia/en/news/common/tw-wgg-2017-april-producer-video/

The prem ship which will come with project 56 DDs is Chung King, the former HMS Aurora

 

[SparvieroVV]

 

https://worldofwarships.asia/en/news/common/tw-wgg-2017-april-producer-video/

The prem ship which will come with project 56 DDs is Chung King, the former HMS Aurora

 

 

Will it have all the RGB and be sponsored by a tech company? jk I was kind of surprised the dev said Taiwanese, I thought they tried to walk the tight rope of the one China policy.

[Darth_Glorious]

https://sea-group.org/?p=2884&lang=en

 

La Galissonnière reload time is buffed from 10s to 9s

De Grasse reload time is nerfed from 7,5s to 8,1s

Kidd will get repair party consummable

[ShinGetsu]

Lol, 1s reload buff on Galissonière, but still longer reload than Budyonny and still slower by a large margin...

[Toivia]

https://sea-group.org/?p=2884&lang=en

 

La Galissonnière reload time is buffed from 10s to 9s

De Grasse reload time is nerfed from 7,5s to 8,1s

Kidd will get repair party consummable

 

Hmm, still trying to think of a valid reason De Grasse needs a faster reload than La Galissoniere (valid, aka not "Because it's premium"). De Grasse is faster, has one more torp each side and has noticeably more hull. For all that it pays by being much larger and so a bigger target.

Yeah, still not getting it.