Algérie, Henri IV and Duca d'Aosta preliminary stats

[Webley_Mark]

Basically, people complain.

 

People must be French.

 

Cause you know, Frenchmen always complain about everything.

[1MajorKoenig]

WG put "what-if" ships to balance the main tree and the real ones as premium... people complain it's money grab.

 

Yes because The what-ifs are retarded horseshit. Period.

 

I don't want childish fantasy stuff in a game about ships. Paper ok but not these full fantasy thingies. As for De Grasse - idk don't mind the one in the screenshot but understand that ppl who have a better knowledge about the French navy would like their ships closer to reality.

 

Btw. it does not mean that I appreciate all that complaining at all but for the fantasy part I think it is important to communicate that it's garbage.

[Exocet6951]

 

People must be French.

 

Cause you know, Frenchmen always complain about everything.

 

You have no idea how true you are.

My girlfriend asked me why I was complaining about a trivial thing once, and I blurted out without hesitation : "I'm French, that's what we do"

We had a good laugh.

 

 

WG makes a line simple... people complain it's boring and doesn't have unique style.

WG makes a line different... people complain it's dumb, trying to hard to be different and will be bad.

WG make premiums that are different to the normal tree ships... people complain they're OP, P2W or useless because they need completely different captains.

WG make premiums that are similar to normal tree ships... people complain they are clones and boring.

WG put "what-if" ships to balance the main tree and the real ones as premium... people complain it's money grab.

WG put real ships in the tech tree and give "what-if" premium... people complain the ship didn't exist like that.

 

Basically, people complain. That's all I've seen at the release of every new line and every new premium.

 

For those who couldn't be bothered to spend 30 seconds on google/wikipedia, that De Grasses is how the design would have looked if she was actually built during the war. As people have pointed out, she was finished differently so this is a "what-if". We have many ships like that already. You can see the real De Grasse has basically the same hull, so it is the same ship.

 

But it's OK, not like anyone cares, you can all go back to complaining now. 

 

 

While I agree with the principle, there are limits.

The current French branch is truly uninspired, and mostly dreadful. There's really no way to convince someone to play them over other ships.

A bit like the German CAs, only at least the German tier9 and 10 are fun.

 

I think the lassitude just comes from axe nerfing the tier6, which was a solid and competitive ship on par with the Budyonni and Cleveland, the calamity that is the Henrietta (bandaid buffs won't make her better, most people would gladly take back the 15-17 second reload if it meant having 30mm of deck armor), and trying to sell the entire line as speedy ships when clearly they're just not.

 

It has, in my opinion, less to do with the ships and more to do with a typical WG hatchet job of a branch, and trying to bull**** us into thinking that it's something it's not.

No WG, you can't convince me that 31 knot ships are fast because they can temporarily go as fast as a fast cruiser.

[The_Flying_Dutchman114]

i must say i love the camouflage

 

 

not "almost"...that is la Gloire's camo

 

​The reason I said allmost is that The "Gloire" had an open Tri-pod mast when having the Dazzle camouflage. This tri-pod mast is enclosed. But amazing camouflage nonetheless. Would like to see more of those.

[SparvieroVV]

It looks like there are aa turrets attached to local range finders. Vibrate much? Jk

[puxflacet]

​The reason I said allmost is that The "Gloire" had an open Tri-pod mast when having the Dazzle camouflage. This tri-pod mast is enclosed. But amazing camouflage nonetheless. Would like to see more of those.

 

well, thats just that this isnt la galissonnière class. result of that is the paint job on turrets and superstructure doesnt look completelly convincing imho.  i wonder what camo will they pick as premium for galissonnière when they used the gloire's for this one

EDIT: oh...it seems that there is plenty of options to choose from...i knew only the gloire's 1944 camo

(first one is american "measure 22" though)

and the gloire from 1944 for reference

 

[ImperialAdmiral]

I would love her to have the 3rd camo option. But that's just my personal preference.

[Toivia]

 

WG makes a line simple... people complain it's boring and doesn't have unique style.

WG makes a line different... people complain it's dumb, trying to hard to be different and will be bad.

WG make premiums that are different to the normal tree ships... people complain they're OP, P2W or useless because they need completely different captains.

WG make premiums that are similar to normal tree ships... people complain they are clones and boring.

WG put "what-if" ships to balance the main tree and the real ones as premium... people complain it's money grab.

WG put real ships in the tech tree and give "what-if" premium... people complain the ship didn't exist like that.

 

Basically, people complain. That's all I've seen at the release of every new line and every new premium.

 

For those who couldn't be bothered to spend 30 seconds on google/wikipedia, that De Grasses is how the design would have looked if she was actually built during the war. As people have pointed out, she was finished differently so this is a "what-if". We have many ships like that already. You can see the real De Grasse has basically the same hull, so it is the same ship.

 

But it's OK, not like anyone cares, you can all go back to complaining now.

 

You're obviously right, people will always complain, that is how things are.

 

But those first two lines in regards to the french cruisers come short. They aren't really simple (that'd be boring but more or less fine), they have this inexplicable obsession with being fast while they aren't and they sacrifice armor and to some degree guns and AA. And yet they aren't different in any way because as noted, they still aren't really fast even with the speed boost on (any manoeuvring will slow them down to typical mediocre speeds).

 

So they're just underwhelming.

 

(Disclaimer: Obviously this is all based on secondary knowledge, I haven't playtested any French ships.)

 

 

 

People must be French.

 

Cause you know, Frenchmen always complain about everything.

 

 

 

You have no idea how true you are.

My girlfriend asked me why I was complaining about a trivial thing once, and I blurted out without hesitation : "I'm French, that's what we do"

We had a good laugh.

 

French complaining a lot? You two have clearly never been to central Europe, have you?

[Webley_Mark]

French complaining a lot? You two have clearly never been to central Europe, have you?

 

Worse than the French?

 

IMPOSIBRU!

 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

When the original design for the Royal navy cruiser line was abandoned, I remember that in the weeks that followed Wargaming toyed with the idea of giving the RN the speedboost consumable, and making speed their "thing". This was "RN Mark 2".  (Eventually of course they settled for giving them heal & smoke, and dropping HE ammunition.)

 

The proposed French line feels to me like the "RN Mark 2" would have been.

 

(or it could just be my memory playing tricks)

 

 

[Webley_Mark]

Your emory isn't playing tricks. They, WG, gave the RN cruisers the speedboost but they get back to work because it wasn't working...

 

So the question is: why the hell is it working for the French now?!

[Exocet6951]

Your emory isn't playing tricks. They, WG, gave the RN cruisers the speedboost but they get back to work because it wasn't working...

 

So the question is: why the hell is it working for the French now?!

 

On ships that are bigger and slower as well  

[Toivia]

Your emory isn't playing tricks. They, WG, gave the RN cruisers the speedboost but they get back to work because it wasn't working...

 

So the question is: why the hell is it working for the French now?!

 

I guess it's working for the French now since they just weren't able to come up with anything else (radar? done; smoke? done; great hydro? done; AP only? done; great heal? done; HE only? well, many play like that already...).

 

Had the French cruisers come before RN ones, it just might have been the other way around.

[Sander93]

I do like the concept of the speed boost, found it pretty nice on the Saint Louis on the test server. The problem however is that in it's current form it doesn't really​ give them an edge. Perhaps it could work if the speed boost improved all mobility stats, i.e. also giving it a smaller turning circle, making the ship bleed less speed while manoeuvring, faster rudder shift and boosting the speed even more in a straight line. Then it could truly have an effect on the game as it would make dodging shells a lot easier.

[puxflacet]

I do like the concept of the speed boost, found it pretty nice on the Saint Louis on the test server. The problem however is that in it's current form it doesn't really​ give them an edge. Perhaps it could work if the speed boost improved all mobility stats, i.e. also giving it a smaller turning circle, making the ship bleed less speed while manoeuvring, faster rudder shift and boosting the speed even more in a straight line. Then it could truly have an effect on the game as it would make dodging shells a lot easier.

 

no, no, no...no more space ships thats deny laws of physics like british cruisers...the speed boost is already ridiculous enough for the high tier heavy cruisers. now 200m ship would turn like 100m ship and even doesnt loose speed because of some magical boost? no, just no. speed boost should represent boilers overload which is a historical thing with french cruiser trials. what would represent suddenly smaller turning circle? some alien technology? because something is lacking on a one side, it wont make it good to go overboard on the other side - it will be still bad and ridiculous on top of everything. dont know how you guys, but i certainly dont like loosing immersion and believability just for some balance issues - then we just can replace ships and sea with some shapeless anonymous blobs in some abstract space

[Exocet6951]

 

no, no, no...no more space ships thats deny laws of physics like british cruisers...the speed boost is already ridiculous enough for the high tier heavy cruisers. now 200m ship would turn like 100m ship and even doesnt loose speed because of some magical boost? no, just no. speed boost should represent boilers overload which is a historical thing with french cruiser trials. what would represent suddenly smaller turning circle? some alien technology? because something is lacking on a one side, it wont make it good to go overboard on the other side - it will be still bad and ridiculous on top of everything. dont know how you guys, but i certainly dont like loosing immersion and believability just for some balance issues - then we just can replace ships and sea with some shapeless anonymous blobs in some abstract space

 

 

First of all, game balance supersedes historical authenticity and immersion.

 

Secondly, if you truly, TRULY mean that bolded part, then I take it you have never used a damage control party that magically extinguishes all fires and repairs all flooding instantly? Or used the magic potion that it repair party?

Or even defensive AA, where AA gunners and AA directors concentrate extra hard for a few seconds and double their efficiency?

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

 

 

First of all, game balance supersedes historical authenticity and immersion.

 

Secondly, if you truly, TRULY mean that bolded part, then I take it you have never used a damage control party that magically extinguishes all fires and repairs all flooding instantly? Or used the magic potion that it repair party?

Or even defensive AA, where AA gunners and AA directors concentrate extra hard for a few seconds and double their efficiency?

 

The game mechanic that makes me laugh is "smoke".

- You are sitting in smoke

- An enemy ship is within range of your guns, but you cannot see it, and it cannot see you.

- Friendly ship appears and can see the enemy ship (but cannot see you, of course, because you are in smoke)

- Suddenly, by some magic, the friendly ship enables you to see out of the smoke with perfect clarity.

 

I'm all for bending the laws of physics, or historical stats, to make ships competitive (e.g. giving better rate of fire, faster speeds, incredibly fast damage control etc), but I draw the line at ignoring reality completely with "magic".

[1MajorKoenig]

 

 

First of all, game balance supersedes historical authenticity and immersion.

 

Secondly, if you truly, TRULY mean that bolded part, then I take it you have never used a damage control party that magically extinguishes all fires and repairs all flooding instantly? Or used the magic potion that it repair party?

Or even defensive AA, where AA gunners and AA directors concentrate extra hard for a few seconds and double their efficiency?

 

There is a difference between tweaking things to make the game work and throwing all connection to realism out of the window.

 

Don't know why ppl don't understand that. Arcade elements are fine but if the games looses all connections to reality it becomes absurd. 

 

The speed boost is ok though imo.

[Azakeit]

 

There is a difference between tweaking things to make the game work and throwing all connection to realism out of the window.

 

Don't know why ppl don't understand that. Arcade elements are fine but if the games looses all connections to reality it becomes absurd. 

 

The speed boost is ok though imo.

 

you're right, seeing shells flying in the air, even differencing them between HE and AP, knowing magically when your ship is detected is really absurd...

 

Gameplay choices takes precendence over reality or history.

[Exocet6951]

 

There is a difference between tweaking things to make the game work and throwing all connection to realism out of the window.

 

Don't know why ppl don't understand that. Arcade elements are fine but if the games looses all connections to reality it becomes absurd. 

 

The speed boost is ok though imo.

 

And in a game where all scale and proportions are all messed up, a game where a +50k ton battleship accelerates to full speed in 20 seconds, and instantly repair flooding and fire, it's RN CLs' odd ability to not lose speed in turns that set people off?

 

Methinks people are very selective of memory when it comes down to the argument of what is crossing the realism/gameplay line.

 

 

Having had French cruisers with better turning/speed bleed would have been one of the least atmosphere destroyin things in the game, all things considered.

Arguing that they can't turn well because it's fudging the atmosphere is so asinine that I just had to bring up repair party and damage control party.

[1MajorKoenig]

As I said, some elements like speed / time acceleration are needed to make the game playable. Real ship battles are just too slow for an online PvP game. And damage party is an extremely simplified depiction of damage control. In short reality needs to be translated into a model that works within the environment. But if this model is too far from the actual reality it depicts it becomes something else. The tricky part is to draw that line.

 

Btw. I am not the biggest fan of how WG implemented the tracers but I can live with that.

 

I would like the game to be a tad less gimmicky and a little closer to realism while keeping the real needed concessions to playability. Magic turning cycles are not needed per se but more of an indication that your balancing department is running out of ideas.

 

While I am not an expert for French ships I am 100% sure these cruisers had their strength in real life - and these would need to be translated into the game mechanics.

 

As you seem to be more into the ships - what would you say was typical for them? Or special?

[Azakeit]

 

While I am not an expert for French ships I am 100% sure these cruisers had their strength in real life - and these would need to be translated into the game mechanics.

 

As you seem to be more into the ships - what would you say was typical for them? Or special?

 

The fact is, we don't really care about a historical specificities becoming a gimmick in the game.

 

Was the Japanese HE really that powerful ? probably not, but we don't care

Was the german He so porr and the AP so good ? probably not, but we don't care

Were the US 8inch shell come with so good normalization ? probably not, but we don't care

Were the Japanese CV so powerful ? probably not *cough* but we don't care

Were the japanese torpedoes so underwhelming ? probably not *cough*

Were only a few US and VMF ships using radars ? probably not, but...

 

One can think about 15+ new game mechanics that we can introduce with a new line of cruisers, but that's not for the new french line....

[Sander93]

 

no, no, no...no more space ships thats deny laws of physics like british cruisers...the speed boost is already ridiculous enough for the high tier heavy cruisers. now 200m ship would turn like 100m ship and even doesnt loose speed because of some magical boost? no, just no. speed boost should represent boilers overload which is a historical thing with french cruiser trials. what would represent suddenly smaller turning circle? some alien technology? because something is lacking on a one side, it wont make it good to go overboard on the other side - it will be still bad and ridiculous on top of everything. dont know how you guys, but i certainly dont like loosing immersion and believability just for some balance issues - then we just can replace ships and sea with some shapeless anonymous blobs in some abstract space

 

​As others have said there are numerous examples of similar odd mechanics in the game already. There needs to be some form of realism yes, but an enhanced mobility consumable would fall well within the current borders of gameplay-over-realism. Just like other consumables like radar, defensive AA and repar parties.  

[1MajorKoenig]

 

The fact is, we don't really care about a historical specificities becoming a gimmick in the game.

 

Was the Japanese HE really that powerful ? probably not, but we don't care

Was the german He so porr and the AP so good ? probably not, but we don't care

Were the US 8inch shell come with so good normalization ? probably not, but we don't care

Were the Japanese CV so powerful ? probably not *cough* but we don't care

Were the japanese torpedoes so underwhelming ? probably not *cough*

Were only a few US and VMF ships using radars ? probably not, but...

 

One can think about 15+ new game mechanics that we can introduce with a new line of cruisers, but that's not for the new french line....

 

Not really relevant. And that the depiction of IJN torps is pretty different from their historical capabilities especially in comparison to other nations' torps seems to bother you which is what I meant with depicting reality. However, I don't care about what consumables or gimmicks you wish for or WG will give to the French cruisers.

 

I will play the French cruisers for sure anyway and check myself if they are fun or not.

[Toivia]

 

no, no, no...no more space ships thats deny laws of physics like british cruisers...the speed boost is already ridiculous enough for the high tier heavy cruisers. now 200m ship would turn like 100m ship and even doesnt loose speed because of some magical boost? no, just no. speed boost should represent boilers overload which is a historical thing with french cruiser trials. what would represent suddenly smaller turning circle? some alien technology? because something is lacking on a one side, it wont make it good to go overboard on the other side - it will be still bad and ridiculous on top of everything. dont know how you guys, but i certainly dont like loosing immersion and believability just for some balance issues - then we just can replace ships and sea with some shapeless anonymous blobs in some abstract space

 

Nope.

 

As long as ships look more or less the way they should look and don't shoot electromagnetic weaponry (IE they have the weapons they should have), I'm fine with it. And speed boost is basically as invisible of a gimmick as you can get in game.

 

Not to mention game balance takes precedence over everything, ideally. And the French cruisers, being very fragile, would be ideally suited for good evading and dodging (which afaik, they still aren't, speed boost only helps in a straight line).