Algérie, Henri IV and Duca d'Aosta preliminary stats

[Darth_Glorious]

Unfortunately, Henry IV bow armour thickness is only 25 mm.

And its front turret armour thickness is only 180 mm compared to 300 mm of Moskva

[ShinGetsu]

Unfortunately, Henry IV bow armour thickness is only 25 mm.

And its front turret armour thickness is only 180 mm compared to 300 mm of Moskva

 

F*ck.

Well, it means it will be like Moskva then : only able to tank above 10km.

 

Well, it doesn't invalidate the things I've said before though. Even if the armor isn't as good as I hoped, it will still be fast, reasonably stealthy and the guns will punch big holes provided you uses the right ammo at the right time.

[Darth_Glorious]

Well, it can go 40 kt with speed flag and speed booster for 3 min if you have the rare upgrade.

[Tyrendian89]

 

 

It has 17.15s reload. With the upgrade, you get 15s. (Because nobody will be stupid enough to take the range when you already have 20km, right ?)

15s ==> 2s longer than Zao. Okay, it is still lower.

Then, take a look at the HEs : 22% fire chance, 3400 damage. With 240mm, you get 40mm penetration, which is enough to lolpen most BBs, even the heavily armored ones. With lolfire chance. And 1133 damage per penetration.

On the other hands, yeah, the AP lacks penetration. But with their damage and penetration they will be enough to punch big holes on any broadside cruisers.

This ship is designed to spam HE, with maybe lower rof, but lolfire chance, and very few shells will not penetrate.

If you are sadistic enough to add APHE to the mix, you get 52mm penetration and I think even the best broadside armor can't compare to it... 

 

 

on 9 guns to the Zao's 12... with that RoF it is far and away the worst firestarter at T10, on top of having the worst DPM... let's see... (the following are all rough calculations, ignoring target fire resistance because that'd be the same anyway and assuming fire flags plus DE)

Zao(range): 12 shells x 4.4RPM x 23% firechance = 12.1 fires per minute

Des Moines(range): 9 shells x 11RPM x 18% firechance = 17.7 fires per minute, on admittedly horrible arcs

Moskva(reload): 9 shells x 6.6rpm x 21% firechance = 12.5 fires per minute

Hindenburg (reload): 12 shells x 6.8 rpm x 17% firechance = 13.9 fires per minute

Hindenburg (range): 12 shells x 6 rpm x 17% firechance = 12.2 fires per minute
Henri IV (reload): 9 shells x 4 rpm x 26% firechance = 9.36 fires per minute
 

This ofc doesn't factor in not being able to use all guns consistently, but that will affect the Henri just as much as anyone else - maybe even more if bowtanking becomes viable in it.

Now, that comparatively poor gun performance doesn't instantly make it a bad ship - it does probably have the most flexible torpedoes out of all of these with its combination of good arcs and range, even if there are only three of the things. But I do think it'll need some love in the reload department to be up to par with its competitors, all of which are pretty damn strong ships if played right.

[Historynerd]

Hmmm...

Well, I guess they're setting up the Aosta like a DD killer?

Its AP's muzzle velocity does not translate into great penetration values, although it should mean very flat arcs and therefore good accuracy. Its HE chance is bad. The firing range is on the middle, but it has good firing arcs and excellent speed.

Or am I missing something? I'm not a stat whiz, so there's a good chance I'm not seeing something... 

[dasCKD]

The only complaint I really have about La Grande Baguette (and it is 'La', nouns ending with 'e' are almost always feminine) is her muzzle velocity. I am of the opinion that she should have the muzzle velocity equal to at least that of the Zao or Hindenburg given how slowly she fires. If there should be a cruiser able to readily penetrate the citadels of battleships at 10 kilometers it should NOT be the one with an 11 second reload unmodded. 

[Darth_Glorious]

Some belt armours : (RN CLs can be proud of theirs )

 

VII Algérie : 110 mm

VIII Charles Martel : 100 mm

IX Saint Louis : 100 mm

X Henry IV : 19 mm torpedo bulge + 45 mm citadel armour (!) 

V Emile Bertin : 13 mm belt +13 mm citadel armour 

[dasCKD]

X Henry IV : 19 mm torpedo bulge + 45 mm citadel armour (!) 

 

Well, the Hindenburg is one of the tankiest cruisers in the game, and her citadel armor sits beneath that of the Atlanta at certain places. Pure thickness isn't necessarily indicative of ingame performance. That said, I would still have preferred her with 30 mm of bow armor.

[Verdius]

Hmmm...

Well, I guess they're setting up the Aosta like a DD killer?

Its AP's muzzle velocity does not translate into great penetration values, although it should mean very flat arcs and therefore good accuracy. Its HE chance is bad. The firing range is on the middle, but it has good firing arcs and excellent speed.

Or am I missing something? I'm not a stat whiz, so there's a good chance I'm not seeing something... 

 

It seems like a worse Buddyonny. 2,6 km less range, less damage, less turret traverse, far less fire chance, comparable muzzle velocity, less armour, less HP, less torps. Only real thing she has going for her is better detection, slightly better speed, and slightly better rudder shift. 

 

Compared to the Cleveland she would have less range, less guns, less fire chance, less armour, 5k less hp, less AA, and a bigger turning circle. Muzzle velocity, speed and detection are better (and very situational short range torps).

 

Her gun range is on the lower end of the spectrum. Only Leander and Perth have lower range.

I don't think she will be competitive with those stats. I don't think that speed and a km of detection can compensate for its failings. 

[Darth_Glorious]

 

Well, the Hindenburg is one of the tankiest cruisers in the game, and her citadel armor sits beneath that of the Atlanta at certain places. Pure thickness isn't necessarily indicative of ingame performance. That said, I would still have preferred her with 30 mm of bow armor.

 

Hindenburg has 60 mm turtle back armor while his French counterpart has none.

[Historynerd]

It seems like a worse Buddyonny. Less range, less damage, far less fire chance, comparable muzzle velocity, less armour, less HP, less torps. Only real thing she has going for her is better detection, slightly better speed, and slightly better rudder shift. 

 

Compared to the Cleveland she would have less range, less damage, less fire chance, less armour, 5k less hp, less AA, and a bigger turning circle. Muzzle velocity, speed and detection are better (and very situational short range torps).

 

I don't think she will be competitive with those stats.

 

 

 

Um...

...Is there a chance that these stats may be tweaked? Maybe if the ST turns out harsh results for the Aosta?

[Verdius]

 

Um...

...Is there a chance that these stats may be tweaked? Maybe if the ST turns out harsh results for the Aosta?

 

I'd hope so. It has worse fire chance than the Germans right now and it is not compensated for by it's AP.

[Historynerd]

I'd hope so. It has worse fire chance than the Germans right now and it is not compensated for by it's AP.

 

Well, if Italian cruisers get a bad fire chance, I expect AP to have enough pen power to punch a ship into the next season of Ranked or something! 

[Darth_Glorious]

Tier 4 Duguay Trouin has catapulted fighters

[ShinGetsu]

 

Hindenburg has 60 mm turtle back armor while his French counterpart has none.

Is the citadel underwater ? That's more important than its thickness.

[Comodoro_Allande]

 

X Henry IV : 19 mm torpedo bulge + 45 mm citadel armour (!) 

 

 

Wait what???? 

 

V Emile Bertin : 13 mm belt +13 mm citadel armour 

 

Good thing. Sure, HE spam would be deadly, but with that armor even the soviet 130 mm railguns will overpen that papier mâché 

[dasCKD]

Hindenburg has 60 mm turtle back armor while his French counterpart has none.

 

The Zao has a 65-203 mm of armor with a turtleback with 65 mm on her midship citadel's slope. The Hindenburg has 20 - 110 mm of armor on her citadel with 45 mm on her midship citadel's slope. I very much doubt there is anyone who would say that the Zao is tankier than the Hindenburg.

[Darth_Glorious]

Is the citadel underwater ? That's more important than its thickness.

 

No. It is only lower than Algérie's citadel which is very high above waterline.

[Verdius]

 

Well, if Italian cruisers get a bad fire chance, I expect AP to have enough pen power to punch a ship into the next season of Ranked or something! 

 

I just checked and Bismarck secondaries have more fire chance than Duca d'Aosta. Soviet DDs have more fire chance. Even Blyskawica has more fire chance. Nürnberg has better fire chance. The bloody Novik has better fire chance on its 120mm guns.

 

Oh and Budyonny not only has more guns (3x3 compared to 4x2), not only does more damage per shell (100 damage extra with AP and HE with 5% more fire chance) and have 2.5km more range, and have comparable muzzle velocity, but they also gets better penetration (insert Stalinium joke here):

 

	5km	10km
Duca	200	122
Budyonny	215	138

 

It really seems like a worse Budyonny the more I look at it.

[Historynerd]

 

I just checked and Bismarck secondaries have more fire chance than Duca d'Aosta. Soviet DDs have more fire chance. Even Blyskawica has more fire chance.

 

Oh and Budyonny not only has more guns (3x3 compared to 4x2), not only does more damage per shell (100 damage extra with AP and HE with 5% more fire chance) and have 2.5km more range, and have comparable muzzle velocity, but they also gets better penetration (insert Stalinium joke here):

 

	5km	10km
Duca	200	122
Budyonny	215	138

 

It really seems like a worse Budyonny the more I look at it.

 

 

 

...And to think that yesterday I was so elated... 

[Darth_Glorious]

 

The Zao has a 65-203 mm of armor with a turtleback with 65 mm on her midship citadel's slope. The Hindenburg has 20 - 110 mm of armor on her citadel with 45 mm on her midship citadel's slope. I very much doubt there is anyone who would say that the Zao is tankier than the Hindenburg.

 

Armour config of Henry IV is very simple, you have a T-shape citadel with 45 mm armour covered by the torpedo bulge of 19 mm. The part above the water  is about the same size of Minotaur without the higher mid part.

Citadel bulkhead is 160 mm. (compared to 170 mm for Moskva)

[dasCKD]

 

Armour config of Henry IV is very simple, you have a T-shape citadel with 45 mm armour covered by the torpedo bulge of 19 mm. The part above the water  is about the same size of Minotaur without the higher mid part.

 

That actually sounds pretty bad. Any pictures?

[Darth_Glorious]

 

That actually sounds pretty bad. Any pictures?

 

All I can say that It is very similar to North Carolina config without the belt armour and the citadel armour is vertical.

[LDPDC]

I will refrain from any assessment of the Henry IV, because I have read so many post about German BBs and then British CLs moaning that they were badly UP only to find after release that both lines are in fact OP. If this ship is as Miserable as it seems, well it will join a new trend started with German DDs of "no power creep", which is to some extent good.

But hell, if you compare it to Moskva and providing that leaked stats are correct, it seems clearcut: every important caracteristic is largely inferior, every meaningless caracteristic is slightly better. Doesn't look too exciting, does it?

[FloRead]

If the German DDs are any indicator, the Henry VI stats are not surprising and seem to be along the lines for the future. 

 

Perhaps we should not look at the Henry VI and think weak. Maybe Henry VI is the new normal and Moskva/Zao/Hindenburg/Minotaur/Des Moines has an impending nerf coming. (I can hope?)