Kings of the Sea...only four teams?

[Azrael_Ashemdion]

So after all the hubbub and after WG decided to "sponsor" this tourney, TWENTY-EIGHT of the previous contest's entrants were guaranteed a slot, leaving only FOUR empty slots for other teams to apply to?  40 players get to enter out of how many...30,000?  Yeah, that makes sense.

Seriously, Edited.  Yeah, it wasn't you deciding that, but yeah, you sponsored it.  Nice job endorsing a little clique of its own and letting your sponsored group tell the rest of us "Edited, you're Edited. since you weren't kissing up on us last time."  

 

How do the rest of us trust any of your competitions going forward?  Why should we bother even reading the news about this Edited any more?  

 

I hope you guys learn a lesson about trusting clan organizers going forward. 

 

  Az
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate words

[Takru]

What are you even talking about?

[RUSSIANBlAS]

The "pro" scene doesn't interest me at all, I imagine they'll all be abusing various op ships that need money and high level captains to simply compete.

[Tyrendian89]

What are you even talking about?

 

that, pretty much...

 

There was exactly one guaranteed spot, and that was for the current Kings to defend their crown. That the rest of the spots filled up largely with teams that were in last time as well is only the fault of the newcomers - they were simply too slow, end of discussion. First come, first served. Now go away and stop spreading lies when you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Ataw]

Hi!

 

I'd like to clarify some points regarding the sign-up process. Yes lots of team from previous editions signed up in time to get a spot this time. Yes, there is a guaranteed spot, but only for the winner of the previous edition, aka the king.

No, we do not rig - people love this word lately -  the sign-up process to favor former participant. They get the same amount of information anyone else do, however they know spots fill very quickly and thus prepare to apply as soon as possible. Now I understand your frustration. It may look like we're trying to preserve a "clique" as you say but we don't, we have plans to offer the opportunity to more teams to participate, and we'll release more information about it soon enough for you to prepare 

 

 

 

 

[Egoleter]

My only problem with that tournament is that it will repeatedly reward the same players. Even if you open it up for more teams, the type and number of players is very low compared to the servers population but the rewards are much higher then anything else that is offered for the rest of the playerbase.

 

If it had lower rewards, or even being for bragging rights (and the flag) only, or if there would be offers from WG-EU for the rest of the playerbase to also get chances at months of premium time for a few victories...

 

The way it is now, it looks like WG-EU is only really rewarding a select few players with those sponsored prices, ignoring everyone else. Even more so if you look at their current weekly and weekend offerings for the rest of the playerbase. I know that the tournaments are privatly organized, but this sponsoring and the advertisement on the front page, together with the special reward flag, does give these tournaments an 'official' painting.

 

I'd love to see a tournament format where everyone can participate and not only the best pre-formed teams have a real chance to win the very impressive prices.

[I_AM_LULU_SNAIL]

The thing is, these tournaments need to be organized. It takes time, and I guess that at the moment we cannot organize a tournament with more than 32 slots, due to organisations issues. 

Furthermore WG did not release any clan content so far, apart from a tag. They dont take part info the organization, except giving prices, which are nice btw, for a non-official tournament.

Unfortunately, we might have to wait for tournaments fully organized by WG to get them up to hundreds of slots.

 

Finally, to enable those tournaments to get bigger and better, you can become an adjucator, I guess the organizers are still seeking for people?

[MrConway]

So after all the hubbub and after WG decided to "sponsor" this tourney, TWENTY-EIGHT of the previous contest's entrants were guaranteed a slot, leaving only FOUR empty slots for other teams to apply to?  40 players get to enter out of how many...30,000?  Yeah, that makes sense.

 

Seriously, Edited.  Yeah, it wasn't you deciding that, but yeah, you sponsored it.  Nice job endorsing a little clique of its own and letting your sponsored group tell the rest of us "Edited, you're Edited. since you weren't kissing up on us last time."  

 

How do the rest of us trust any of your competitions going forward?  Why should we bother even reading the news about this Edited any more?  

 

I hope you guys learn a lesson about trusting clan organizers going forward. 

 

  Az

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate words

 

Even though people have already posted a clarification to this, let me reiterate: There is only one reserved slot for the tournament, the one for the previous winner.

 

We announced the signups on the portal, the forums and all social media channels with exact instructions how and when to sign up. This means there was space for 372 additional players.

 

While we do want to include more players (work in progress) the conclusion for this time is simple: You snooze, you loose! 

[Ataw]

My only problem with that tournament is that it will repeatedly reward the same players. Even if you open it up for more teams, the type and number of players is very low compared to the servers population but the rewards are much higher then anything else that is offered for the rest of the playerbase.

 

If it had lower rewards, or even being for bragging rights (and the flag) only, or if there would be offers from WG-EU for the rest of the playerbase to also get chances at months of premium time for a few victories...

 

The way it is now, it looks like WG-EU is only really rewarding a select few players with those sponsored prices, ignoring everyone else. Even more so if you look at their current weekly and weekend offerings for the rest of the playerbase. I know that the tournaments are privatly organized, but this sponsoring and the advertisement on the front page, together with the special reward flag, does give these tournaments an 'official' painting.

 

I'd love to see a tournament format where everyone can participate and not only the best pre-formed teams have a real chance to win the very impressive prices.

 

The thing is, what looks like "a few victories" is the result of weeks or months of preparation, and that time is usually spent either in the training room or on tools such as wowstactics designing strategies, practicing these strategies and analyzing the trainings. I'm talking about around 2-3 evenings at least spent in the training room, not earning xp or credits, not gaining rank, not completing missions or challenges. 

 

Maybe the rewards are too top-heavy, maybe we should adopt a fairer distribution. However I do not believe rewarding a select number of players is wrong, because these are the players that invest the most into the game, and until we get more clan content this is pretty the only way they get some return on investment. 

 

The format is not set in stone but keep in mind organizing such tournament requires a fair amount of work and expanding increases the workload exponentially and add lots of scheduling constraints. So we will try to give more opportunities for new teams to participate, progressively. 

[thisheep]

My only problem with that tournament is that it will repeatedly reward the same players. 

 

I'd love to see a tournament format where everyone can participate and not only the best pre-formed teams have a real chance to win the very impressive prices.

 

Any team with motivated good players can pretend to the crown. 

 

If you work hard enough with your team mates, you will quickly reach a decent level. There are many ways to progress. Watching replays or competitive streams and asking good teams for training is possible for anyone. 

 

The current best teams became strong in working. They also were the first to experienced a competitive area. 

 

Like I said to a lot of french teams recently, you should not be afraid of the competition. Play for the fun, play for the rewards, play for whatever you want! You will enjoy these tournaments more than FFA or ranked because for the first time you will play World of Warships like a true multiplayer game: You will play with your friends as a team.

 

THAT is why I play the KoTS. 

[Egoleter]

 

The thing is, what looks like "a few victories" is the result of weeks or months of preparation, and that time is usually spent either in the training room or on tools such as wowstactics designing strategies, practicing these strategies and analyzing the trainings. I'm talking about around 2-3 evenings at least spent in the training room, not earning xp or credits, not gaining rank, not completing missions or challenges. 

 

Maybe the rewards are too top-heavy, maybe we should adopt a fairer distribution. However I do not believe rewarding a select number of players is wrong, because these are the players that invest the most into the game, and until we get more clan content this is pretty the only way they get some return on investment. 

 

The format is not set in stone but keep in mind organizing such tournament requires a fair amount of work and expanding increases the workload exponentially and add lots of scheduling constraints. So we will try to give more opportunities for new teams to participate, progressively. 

 

Other players invest just as much effort. Just not as teams. They don't ever get the chance to get similar rewards from WG, because single players are at best rewarded with a handfull of camos, a few signals, or a couple of consumables through the default offerings WG provides to the masses. Providing some elite few with those big rewards repeatedly is simply to much.

 

I'm all for tournaments for teams. But right now it just feels like some exclusive club, that will share the profits between themself. Promising that everyone else can get their share. While in fact no newcomer will have really have a realistic chance to cut into the profits of those elites.

 

I'm pretty sure that those competetive teams would still participate without such unequality in reward levels. They are looking for ways to prove themself. I'm all for giving them the chances to do so and those tournaments are the way to go as long as there is no proper ingame mechanism to support them. Those few players just don't have to be the sole focus of Wargamings reward systems. There needs to be a balance and I just can't see it right now.

[Takru]

While in fact no newcomer will have really have a realistic chance to cut into the profits of those elites.

 

At this stage I would like to remind everyone about ALN when they surprisingly went a lot further than anybody expected, I think it was during the OMC cup. They were new, nobody had heard much of them and they brought something else to the table.

[_FTD_]

Why do you open topics like this, without being slightly informed about how the process was/is done? This is putting a bad light on the people that can be arsed organizing it while you should be thankful instead, not to mention that it makes you look like a coon because everything you said is wrong.

 

Besides that we still believe that the prizes are too top heavy (and that comes from a Clan that won the tournament back to back) and I'm sure that the organizer (Eclaire, Ataww) do see this problem. Now some triggering for Egoleter I guess, we still believe that for the ~2 weeks of constant work Clans put in, the Prizes are too low.

 

Everyone is free to participate, if you want to have a shot for the Prizes, sign up. It is normal that there are favorites, has been in every tournament game/sport played but if you don't try you can't win.

 

 

[Sarmanil]

 

Other players invest just as much effort. Just not as teams. They don't ever get the chance to get similar rewards from WG, because single players are at best rewarded with a handfull of camos, a few signals, or a couple of consumables through the default offerings WG provides to the masses. Providing some elite few with those big rewards repeatedly is simply to much.

 

I'm all for tournaments for teams. But right now it just feels like some exclusive club, that will share the profits between themself. Promising that everyone else can get their share. While in fact no newcomer will have really have a realistic chance to cut into the profits of those elites.

 

I'm pretty sure that those competetive teams would still participate without such unequality in reward levels. They are looking for ways to prove themself. I'm all for giving them the chances to do so and those tournaments are the way to go as long as there is no proper ingame mechanism to support them. Those few players just don't have to be the sole focus of Wargamings reward systems. There needs to be a balance and I just can't see it right now.

 

Nothing is stopping you, or anyone else for that matter, to gather a group of friends and start practicing for this format? The tournament is open for everyone, if you apply in time. There is no restriction on skill level, numbers of battles played or other stats. It's competitive so yes, you will most likely play against the best players the server has to offer. But nothing is preventing a donkey like me to assemble 8 other lunatics and apply for the next tournament just for the lolz or for the experience and to learn from better players.

 

In general keep in mind that this is organized by volunteers, they dedicate lots of their free time and energy into their project. I think they deserve a little more respect for making this series a succes. Sure wargaming donated the prizes, but they get excellent PR out of this deal.

 

So to all people involved making this event possible, thank you very much for your hard work! Last tournament was awesome to follow on twitch with some very spectacular matches, I'm sure this one isn't going to be any different.

[robihr]

 

Other players invest just as much effort. Just not as teams. They don't ever get the chance to get similar rewards from WG, because single players are at best rewarded with a handfull of camos, a few signals, or a couple of consumables through the default offerings WG provides to the masses. Providing some elite few with those big rewards repeatedly is simply to much.

 

I'm all for tournaments for teams. But right now it just feels like some exclusive club, that will share the profits between themself. Promising that everyone else can get their share. While in fact no newcomer will have really have a realistic chance to cut into the profits of those elites.

 

I'm pretty sure that those competetive teams would still participate without such unequality in reward levels. They are looking for ways to prove themself. I'm all for giving them the chances to do so and those tournaments are the way to go as long as there is no proper ingame mechanism to support them. Those few players just don't have to be the sole focus of Wargamings reward systems. There needs to be a balance and I just can't see it right now.

 

tell that to any sport and see if they listen. there are lot of people investing their times doing basketball, football, tennis, but only elite few make living from that.

[LilJumpa]

 

Other players invest just as much effort. Just not as teams. They don't ever get the chance to get similar rewards from WG, because single players are at best rewarded with a handfull of camos, a few signals, or a couple of consumables through the default offerings WG provides to the masses. Providing some elite few with those big rewards repeatedly is simply to much.

 

I'm all for tournaments for teams. But right now it just feels like some exclusive club, that will share the profits between themself. Promising that everyone else can get their share. While in fact no newcomer will have really have a realistic chance to cut into the profits of those elites.

 

I'm pretty sure that those competetive teams would still participate without such unequality in reward levels. They are looking for ways to prove themself. I'm all for giving them the chances to do so and those tournaments are the way to go as long as there is no proper ingame mechanism to support them. Those few players just don't have to be the sole focus of Wargamings reward systems. There needs to be a balance and I just can't see it right now.

 

Here we go already without anything like clanwars/clan-campaigns even in place.

 

Just join a clan or set up a team, git gud and cut into the "earnings" of the few elite.

Should be the easiest thing since you already put up the same "effort" as a single player.

[Egoleter]

Once again, as it seems I'm not presenting my point very well...

 

I'm not against those tournaments and I am gratefull for those organizers that they present the competetive players an environment where they can show off. I really am. It's great. I never said that they have to stop, that they should be less prominent, or that the organizers are doing a bad job. I never will.

 

What I have a problem with, is the unreasonable high rewards, when compared to everything else achievable on the server. Rewards as such are good and fine but they should be in line with the others Wargaming, as the sponsor they are, are offering. Rewards that will go towards a very limited group of players. Newcomers taking those rewards away from them might make good stories but they are exceptions and nothing else.

 

And no... I don't want those prices for myself. I don't want a shot at them. I'm not much of a competetive player. I want Wargaming-EU to make a more balanced aproach to creating rewards. WG-EU, in my mind, has a tendency to split the community into two groups. Those that deserve good rewards, a small but high profile group, and those that don't deserve anything. Be it with those tournament rewards or with randomly given away gifts. I want them, not the tournament organizers (those don't do anything wrong), to start to treat their whole community with the same kind of respect and affection.

 

I might have suggestions to make the tournament like this a bit better and more open for newcomers, but I'll post them where it is appropriate, or send them via PM, if I feel that it is necessary. Because how a tournament is run, is up to the organizers and those are doing a damn fine job.

[robihr]

Once again, as it seems I'm not presenting my point very well...

 

I'm not against those tournaments and I am gratefull for those organizers that they present the competetive players an environment where they can show off. I really am. It's great. I never said that they have to stop, that they should be less prominent, or that the organizers are doing a bad job. I never will.

 

What I have a problem with, is the unreasonable high rewards, when compared to everything else achievable on the server. Rewards as such are good and fine but they should be in line with the others Wargaming, as the sponsor they are, are offering. Rewards that will go towards a very limited group of players. Newcomers taking those rewards away from them might make good stories but they are exceptions and nothing else.

 

And no... I don't want those prices for myself. I don't want a shot at them. I'm not much of a competetive player. I want Wargaming-EU to make a more balanced aproach to creating rewards. WG-EU, in my mind, has a tendency to split the community into two groups. Those that deserve good rewards, a small but high profile group, and those that don't deserve anything. Be it with those tournament rewards or with randomly given away gifts. I want them, not the tournament organizers (those don't do anything wrong), to start to treat their whole community with the same kind of respect and affection.

 

I might have suggestions to make the tournament like this a bit better and more open for newcomers, but I'll post them where it is appropriate, or send them via PM, if I feel that it is necessary. Because how a tournament is run, is up to the organizers and those are doing a damn fine job.

 

i want barcelona and real madrid to get same prizes that rest of football world gets. they should really be balanced. it isnt fair to the players in third south african league.

[Egoleter]

 

i want barcelona and real madrid to get same prizes that rest of football world gets. they should really be balanced. it isnt fair to the players in third south african league.

 

Apples and oranges really.

[TobiAssho]

Once again, as it seems I'm not presenting my point very well...

 

I'm not against those tournaments and I am gratefull for those organizers that they present the competetive players an environment where they can show off. I really am. It's great. I never said that they have to stop, that they should be less prominent, or that the organizers are doing a bad job. I never will.

 

What I have a problem with, is the unreasonable high rewards, when compared to everything else achievable on the server. Rewards as such are good and fine but they should be in line with the others Wargaming, as the sponsor they are, are offering. Rewards that will go towards a very limited group of players. Newcomers taking those rewards away from them might make good stories but they are exceptions and nothing else.

 

And no... I don't want those prices for myself. I don't want a shot at them. I'm not much of a competetive player. I want Wargaming-EU to make a more balanced aproach to creating rewards. WG-EU, in my mind, has a tendency to split the community into two groups. Those that deserve good rewards, a small but high profile group, and those that don't deserve anything. Be it with those tournament rewards or with randomly given away gifts. I want them, not the tournament organizers (those don't do anything wrong), to start to treat their whole community with the same kind of respect and affection.

 

I might have suggestions to make the tournament like this a bit better and more open for newcomers, but I'll post them where it is appropriate, or send them via PM, if I feel that it is necessary. Because how a tournament is run, is up to the organizers and those are doing a damn fine job.

 

If I understand you correctly you want WG to give away more free stuff to everyone instead of giving it to a few, right? I cannot speak for WG, but that will not happen. The prizes we get are not taken away from someone else. If we wouldn’t give them to the community no one would get them.

You have to give WG or every company a reason why they should give away free stuff. What does it mean that they should "make a more balanced approach to creating rewards"? Sitting back, talking and making suggestions what should be different will not change the world you live in. If you have a good idea for an event/tournament/competition of any kind and let it be a 1vs1 on T1 message the WG people and convince them that your idea will be appreciated by the community.

 

We will open a Feedback post after KotS and we appreciate constrictive feedback! We want to slowly improve our tournament rather than doing something we don’t feel comfortable with or we would not be able to handle. So please share your feedback after the event and we will listen to it. The more concreate you can give us advices what can be done better the more likely it is that we are able to make it happen in the next.

We have already started planning and there are a couple of things we will already do/try to do different than this time for example number of teams, prices and seeding. This is our 3rd event so we are still improving and fare away from being perfect.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

If top level competitive play with abuse of p2w/ranked reward ships doesn't take your fancy then ignore it.

 

I personally couldn't care less as I don't think this game is at all suited to professional gaming. Sea Kings prize can be $1,000,000 for all I care and good luck to those competing but I won't be playing attention.

[Egoleter]

 

If I understand you correctly you want WG to give away more free stuff to everyone instead of giving it to a few, right? I cannot speak for WG, but that will not happen. The prizes we get are not taken away from someone else. If we wouldn’t give them to the community no one would get them.

You have to give WG or every company a reason why they should give away free stuff. What does it mean that they should "make a more balanced approach to creating rewards"? Sitting back, talking and making suggestions what should be different will not change the world you live in. If you have a good idea for an event/tournament/competition of any kind and let it be a 1vs1 on T1 message the WG people and convince them that your idea will be appreciated by the community.

 

We will open a Feedback post after KotS and we appreciate constrictive feedback! We want to slowly improve our tournament rather than doing something we don’t feel comfortable with or we would not be able to handle. So please share your feedback after the event and we will listen to it. The more concreate you can give us advices what can be done better the more likely it is that we are able to make it happen in the next.

We have already started planning and there are a couple of things we will already do/try to do different than this time for example number of teams, prices and seeding. This is our 3rd event so we are still improving and fare away from being perfect.

 

Essentially, yes I want them to give away more stuff to everyone. Not for free though. It needs to be earned. I just want them to balance rewards more properly instead of focusing themself on some very few high profile events. They have a full server with hundreds of thousends of players. They should include everyone at some point with a chance for something really good.

 

I do have ideas for events where the whole server can participate, without the need for modded clients, divisions, forum participation, or other stuff like this. It would still be competetive. The problem is that they all push the workload to Wargaming, as they involve them filtering stats on a scale that can't be done with warships.today or similar sites. And I just don't see the WG-EU team doing that (unlike their US colleagues). I could give them the ideas but as I can't do the work it will probably never happen.

 

I will give my feedback in your upcoming thread for your future tournaments (it's really only one major point, the rest is details). Until then I will wish you and all participants all the success and fun you hope to achieve.

[Tyrendian89]

 

You have to give WG or every company a reason why they should give away free stuff. What does it mean that they should "make a more balanced approach to creating rewards"? Sitting back, talking and making suggestions what should be different will not change the world you live in. If you have a good idea for an event/tournament/competition of any kind and let it be a 1vs1 on T1 message the WG people and convince them that your idea will be appreciated by the community.

 

 

to add to this Egoleter, now that I actually understand where you're coming from, a little bit of the early history of these tournaments: It was really pretty much just that - some people went to Wargaming (MrConway specifically iirc) and said "Hey we want to do this, would be a cool event and good publicity for the game, what do you think? Would you support this?" That was, as far as I'm aware, the case for the OMC Cup, the Winter King that followed it, and also for the intercontinental showmatches we've done so far ("we" in this case being the community/clans, not me personally - I've played, but far be it from me to falsely claim any credit for the organizing part. That is done by wonderful people that invest a lot of their own time into it!).

By now this has settled down a bit into a more stable "contact group" with Conway, led (if you want to call it leading) by the King of the Seas organizers - but that doesnt mean other ideas wont be heard!

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I can see some of the rage as the Ranked Reward has been reduced to £10 of doubloons...

[Slauter]

Rewards might be too top heavy, but are still very low IMO.

 

Try to organize your clan, to have enough people to train on every side of every map (you have to be ready to play on 7 maps in two days for this tournament, much more than 7 overall) in a way that you're able to beat an experienced team with presumably better players (well, some of the best players of EU server) than you have in your team. To do that you need 20 people with proper ship combination, ready to gain 0 experience/silver in trainings which take few hours, few days of every week. And you need few months doing this to create a solid team, still 99% not a team that is able to win the tournament. You also need to keep your clan organized and motivated in any case, success or failure. You might be unlucky and get TTT or OMNI in your first game and fail in first round two tournaments in a row. And you have to move on. 

 

When you go through this process rethink are rewards too big or infact very low.

 

And remember, some guys are wasting their free time to make this game more competitive. Join them and see how much work it takes for 0 rewards for organizing these touraments.