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Matchmaking, Ranked and Stats - WG .. seriously?

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Beta Tester
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Well, hi there alltogether.

 

I recently decided to do some ranked matches because they seemed interesting at first and a nice change from the casual random game. So there I was, playing. When I finally reached Rank 10 (which took me about five times as much as last season) I became curious. Those streaks of defeats weren't event as bad as I sometimes had them in Random Games. So, while usually not being a stat-youknowhat I checked the stats of my teammates occasionally and those of the enemy team.

 

To put it short and blunt, no player was exceptionally good, they were all mediocre to bad (I do consider myself about average). Interestingly enough, I had alot (and I mean more than 50%) of Teammates with a WTR below 500 and a winrate that sometimes did not even scratch 43%...

I would not consider myself any kind of elitist...but SERIOUSLY WG! Those people obviously do not, by any means, understand the game. You see moves that can be compensated playing 12v12 - but not 7v7. I might - perhaps - be able to compensate for one, maybe two bad players. But to for four or five. That's impossible. I won't go deeper on the average stats of the enemy team because that would end up in a discussionabout the Matchmaker (which is sh*t btw. for ranked).

My honest question is, why - if you track every player, every shot, every movement done - let those players join ranked matches? It is supposed to be competitive in a way, a nice change from random games. But it is not. Currently, I know after 3-5 minutes if we win the game or not. And mostly, we don't. This is neither interesting nor "engaging" - this is just pure frustration and utter bulls*it. To put it bluntly.

 

- Limit access to ranked matches for people with a certain level of winrate, number of matches and all in all at least mediocre skill-level

- For gods sake, remove detonations at least in ranked. Nothing is more frustrating than watching your mates BB explode due to a detonation.

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[HAERT]
[HAERT]
Beta Tester
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There is already some limit to ranked.

You need to have account level 13 to play ranked. But ofc that say nothing about skill level, just a basic minimum experience.

 

 

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Beta Tester
456 posts

There is already some limit to ranked.

You need to have account level 13 to play ranked. But ofc that say nothing about skill level, just a basic minimum experience.

 

 

 

Well, yeah. To be honest, everybody should play a game like he wants to and is able to do. But at least the matches should be interesting. I do not mind losing, but I can't stand getting from one massacre into another. It's just boring and frustrating so much that I even sometimes ask myself why I'm still playing (well, to get better obviously but...yeah...).

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[NWP]
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Just lost 3 in a row, one because of a 1/1/1 Ranger on our team vs an AS Saipan (we had absolutely no chance).

 

Another because a DD and a Cruiser yoloed within the first few mins, couldn't contest the cap and quickly lost.

 

And finally because we had a ship sailing outside the epicentre trying to snipe whilst their team pushed well. 

 

Part of Ranked is putting up with all this cr@p and making it count when you can... As I think we've discussed before on here, even people who are Super Unicum have a WR in Ranked only in the 60s. Unless they really are "that" exceptional.

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[GOLD]
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Just lost 3 in a row, one because of a 1/1/1 Ranger on our team vs an AS Saipan (we had absolutely no chance).

 

 

Both of those cv types are pants IMO.

 

What is the point going AS Saipan with the meta of smoke this season. He certainly had no firepower.

 

now a 2/2/0 load out in a Saipan would have been different. especially against a 1/1/1 ranger. 

Edited by Ragweek

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Weekend Tester
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Both of those cv types are pants IMO.

 

What is the point going AS Saipan with the meta of smoke this season. He certainly had no firepower.

 

now a 2/2/0 load out in a Saipan would have been different. especially against a 1/1/1 ranger. 

 

Because an AS Saipan can cover their team from the enemy carrier, spot for them and because the AS Saipan gets the death squadron. No firepower? Thank your lucky stars they're yet to drop on you, but your time shall come.
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[NWP]
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Both of those cv types are pants IMO.

 

What is the point going AS Saipan with the meta of smoke this season. He certainly had no firepower.

 

now a 2/2/0 load out in a Saipan would have been different. especially against a 1/1/1 ranger. 

 

An AS Saipan isn't the best but it is still light years away from a 1/1/1 Ranger who will get completely shut down by 3xT9 Fighter Squadrons... The match I had, their CV ended up with Clear Sky and ours nothing. 

 

The meta may not favour 3/0/1 Saipan as much but it still gives very good spotting and the single super DB Squadron will put the hurt on anything it can drop on.

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Beta Tester
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Well, I know how you feel. Alas, I am not complaining about "that one player" in particular. But Ranked Seasons are promoted as a kind of "competitive" play it just hurts. It's OK if it's equally distributed. Wouldn't make it great, but OK. 

And yes, I know that "personal experience" is neither a relevant statistical and mathematical number, nor is it a useful sample size. But like my Professor once said "Statistics are all nice and dandy. But when I'm sitting on a hot oven with my feet in icy water, my burning [edited]doesn't really care about the average temperature on my knees..." :-)

 

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Beta Tester
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"I'm not an elitist, but I demand elitism"

Btw you have a 42.31% Winrate in Tier 10. Stop playing Tier 10! I don't want you on my team.

 

 

Matchmaker does not take any kind of player stats into account, so it is random what players you get on your team. The times all the bad players are on the enemy team and you steamroll 7:0 are always forgotten.

MM in ranked is fine this season with the nation mirror and no/4 class cap besides CV. There are other things to consider in ranked, but the playerbase is the playerbase not much you can do about that.

 

 

 

 

 

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Supertester
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If better players would be in your team, you would have the same 1/2 chance to win or lose. Carry harder. I had 3 games won in a row, then lost 5 in a row. 

 

In ranked i have a bit above 50% WR, but i don't let it affect me. I try to do my best and hope that it pays off by not losing a star. 

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[TRAV]
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Well, hi there alltogether.

 

I recently decided to do some ranked matches because they seemed interesting at first and a nice change from the casual random game. So there I was, playing. When I finally reached Rank 10 (which took me about five times as much as last season) I became curious. Those streaks of defeats weren't event as bad as I sometimes had them in Random Games. So, while usually not being a stat-youknowhat I checked the stats of my teammates occasionally and those of the enemy team.

 

To put it short and blunt, no player was exceptionally good, they were all mediocre to bad (I do consider myself about average). Interestingly enough, I had alot (and I mean more than 50%) of Teammates with a WTR below 500 and a winrate that sometimes did not even scratch 43%...

I would not consider myself any kind of elitist...but SERIOUSLY WG! Those people obviously do not, by any means, understand the game. You see moves that can be compensated playing 12v12 - but not 7v7. I might - perhaps - be able to compensate for one, maybe two bad players. But to for four or five. That's impossible. I won't go deeper on the average stats of the enemy team because that would end up in a discussionabout the Matchmaker (which is sh*t btw. for ranked).

My honest question is, why - if you track every player, every shot, every movement done - let those players join ranked matches? It is supposed to be competitive in a way, a nice change from random games. But it is not. Currently, I know after 3-5 minutes if we win the game or not. And mostly, we don't. This is neither interesting nor "engaging" - this is just pure frustration and utter bulls*it. To put it bluntly.

 

- Limit access to ranked matches for people with a certain level of winrate, number of matches and all in all at least mediocre skill-level

- For gods sake, remove detonations at least in ranked. Nothing is more frustrating than watching your mates BB explode due to a detonation.

 

You are writing that you don't consider yourself an elitist, yet make demands like one.

 

Access is already limited by account level. To reach that level a minimum number of games have to be played. To reach a ship tier of the necessary level also needs a certain number of games played, or money payed (which allows all of us to play on this server) to get such a ship. Limiting by winrate is a bad thing, as winrate is a number collected over all games on all tiers and with all ships. When I started to play this game my winrate was a measly 45 %. It soon started to rise and is now (had to look it up just for you) at 56 %. I'm now at 2200 matches played in randoms alone and to raise my winrate by another percent would need about another 70 to 80 consecutive victories without any losses. My actual current winrate is somewhere between 60 and 65 % but it is not reflected by my stats and it will take a long while until it is. Not to mention that some players might have an inflated winrate to due to mainly playing in divisions. Winrate is a completly useless tool as meassurement for gamemode access.

 

And last but not least on that point... if you are so much better then those other players, you should quickly rise into the ranks where you will no longer meet them. The bad and the good will sort themself by the different time they need to get to the single digit ranks.

 

If you don't want to detonate in ranked use anti-detonation flags. Some of us are farming them between the seasons of ranked battles, so we have a good number available when we actually need them. You can earn a bunch more while you rise through the ranks.

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Beta Tester
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"I'm not an elitist, but I demand elitism"

Btw you have a 42.31% Winrate in Tier 10. Stop playing Tier 10! I don't want you on my team.

 

 

Matchmaker does not take any kind of player stats into account, so it is random what players you get on your team. The times all the bad players are on the enemy team and you steamroll 7:0 are always forgotten.

MM in ranked is fine this season with the nation mirror and no/4 class cap besides CV. There are other things to consider in ranked, but the playerbase is the playerbase not much you can do about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I didn't express myself correctly. I don't want to steamroll and I don't want to get steamroll. And there's only so much you can do.

I know, the obvious and preferred solution would be to spread people equally (in regards of skill, however it is measured, ships etc) along the Teams. 

Even a (by stats) "bad" player can do well or surprise the enemy (If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid).

And like I said, everybody may play the way they want. I don't really care how it's done in random, because there it's just push Button and do stuff. But in ranked, I want to progress  (even if it's slow) and not sit where I started off four hours earlier because "trololol RNG". That's wasted time (imho).

 

We all know WG will never implement a matchmaker like that, for whatever reasons. So I wanted to keep that option out of the discussion - although the other options are not that charming.

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Players
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Surely, the whole idea of Ranked is that it does provide a crude form of skill based matchmaking? And that a couple of weeks into a season, most of the competent players will be in Ranks 2 to 10? Leaving a lot of less good players in the 11 to 15 bracket?

 

For a competent player that's good news, as it's easy to carry / end up top XP in Ranks 11 to 15 now.

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Supertester
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Well there is already a skillcap in ranked. The ranks. If you progress out of the scrub levels, you won't see scrubs.

There are probably just as many in the enemy team as in yours goven enough time, so just play your game. If you don't progress faster, its probably because you are not good enough to progress faster. That's the nature of ranked.

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[_GG_]
Weekend Tester
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Because an AS Saipan can cover their team from the enemy carrier, spot for them and because the AS Saipan gets the death squadron. No firepower? Thank your lucky stars they're yet to drop on you, but your time shall come.

 

This basically. If the Saipan driver is adept at manual bombing that one squadron can delete DDs with a single hit and wreck havok to anything else it goes for.

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Supertester
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This basically. If the Saipan driver is adept at manual bombing that one squadron can delete DDs with a single hit and wreck havok to anything else it goes for.

 

You could also use a proper setup, have just as much air control while being able to reliably take out DD's and damage BB's as well.

There's nothing defending an AS setup in ranked.

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[SCRUB]
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Just lost 3 in a row, one because of a 1/1/1 Ranger on our team vs an AS Saipan (we had absolutely no chance).

 

Another because a DD and a Cruiser yoloed within the first few mins, couldn't contest the cap and quickly lost.

 

And finally because we had a ship sailing outside the epicentre trying to snipe whilst their team pushed well. 

 

Part of Ranked is putting up with all this cr@p and making it count when you can... As I think we've discussed before on here, even people who are Super Unicum have a WR in Ranked only in the 60s. Unless they really are "that" exceptional.

 

I had an AS Saipan on my team today, who lost the air battle against a 'normal' Saipan. :facepalm:

The enemy Saipan got Clear Skies and ours didn't... :sceptic:

 

I really don't know how you can lose the air battle if you have more fighters and more fighter squadrons.

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[BYOB]
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 I really don't know how you can lose the air battle if you have more fighters and more fighter squadrons.

 

That's easy, at the start of the battle you just have to line your fighter squadrons up. Well spaced and flying in one direction. And then you let the enemy strafe you again and again. It's an automatic "gg wp" from the other guy.

 

That's why I stopped playing CVs in Random and started training in CoOp all the manual drops and strafes, before WG removes it from low tier carriers.

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[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
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Well, hi there alltogether.

 

I recently decided to do some ranked matches because they seemed interesting at first and a nice change from the casual random game. So there I was, playing. When I finally reached Rank 10 (which took me about five times as much as last season) I became curious. Those streaks of defeats weren't event as bad as I sometimes had them in Random Games. So, while usually not being a stat-youknowhat I checked the stats of my teammates occasionally and those of the enemy team.

 

To put it short and blunt, no player was exceptionally good, they were all mediocre to bad (I do consider myself about average). Interestingly enough, I had alot (and I mean more than 50%) of Teammates with a WTR below 500 and a winrate that sometimes did not even scratch 43%...

I would not consider myself any kind of elitist...but SERIOUSLY WG! Those people obviously do not, by any means, understand the game. You see moves that can be compensated playing 12v12 - but not 7v7. I might - perhaps - be able to compensate for one, maybe two bad players. But to for four or five. That's impossible. I won't go deeper on the average stats of the enemy team because that would end up in a discussionabout the Matchmaker (which is sh*t btw. for ranked).

My honest question is, why - if you track every player, every shot, every movement done - let those players join ranked matches? It is supposed to be competitive in a way, a nice change from random games. But it is not. Currently, I know after 3-5 minutes if we win the game or not. And mostly, we don't. This is neither interesting nor "engaging" - this is just pure frustration and utter bulls*it. To put it bluntly.

 

- Limit access to ranked matches for people with a certain level of winrate, number of matches and all in all at least mediocre skill-level

- For gods sake, remove detonations at least in ranked. Nothing is more frustrating than watching your mates BB explode due to a detonation.

 

Detonations are a pain but that's what signals are for, after all. And now, having commented on the only sensible thing you said...

 

It's really, REALLY easy to progress through low tiers. At this point - save for some special cases of people who don't really care and decided they just want to play a couple Ranked games - the lower Ranks are just wiped clean of good players. That's how Ranked works, basically: good players advance, bad players are stuck in lower Ranks. It's been quite some time since the season started - are you really surprised that playing low ranks you keep meeting bad players? Sure, sometimes you're going to get a potato team while enemy's team is less potato-ish. Everybody sometimes gets a good game (lost) or dies like a noob only to learn that the match was actually won (that's how I reached Rank 5 :P ). But it's 7v7. MOST games are to large extent dependent on you. About half my defeats are of the "damn, had I done X, we would've probably won" variety. And the lower average skill, the more personal performance of the one under-Ranked player matters! Not to mention that if your problem is a full potato team then surely you shouldn't have a problem with grabbing the consolation prize of 1st loser to retain your stars?

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Problem is that in ranked skill only matters how fast you get rank 1. Ranked has nothing to do with skill and your ranking.

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Supertester
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Problem is that in ranked skill only matters how fast you get rank 1.

 

I'd argue that even this isn't determined by your own skill.

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[BAD-F]
Beta Tester
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OP can complain all he likes, each game is unique and while I agree that some players go off on a tangent there are many that try to do the right thing.

 

Ranked matches are full of random players, so it's almost pot luck if you get a good team or not, trying to turn a bad situation into an advantage is something you can't always do alone no matter how good you are.

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[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
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Problem is that in ranked skill only matters how fast you get rank 1. Ranked has nothing to do with skill and your ranking.

 

Yeah, sure.

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[SCRUB]
Alpha Tester
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Well there is already a skillcap in ranked. The ranks. If you progress out of the scrub levels, you won't see scrubs.

 

No....

 

I seen 45% wr players reach rank 1 after pressing battle > 1k times in a season..... 

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[H_FAN]
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No....

 

I seen 45% wr players reach rank 1 after pressing battle > 1k times in a season.....

 

If you are right that must be 1 or 2.

 

I am a 55% player and have at t7 50% ships to my disposal, no ships with a really good captain. I have played with Nagato and Shiratsuyu, to be fair not so many games but I am not feeling Confident to reach even 10.

Pures statisticwise you may be correct but the players that may put in the effort to play more than 1000 games in random cant be many. One thing is also how to judge statistics as the 45% player when hitting higher ranks will,face even stronge players which will make the struggle even harder. I Count your post more as anecdote than any reality, though 1 or 2 players may exist.

 

 

Even I would with my win rate would never out in 300-500 games in the extremely boring meta compared with random play or what ever number it would take to reach 1. The rewards are not enough.

I wonder if it is any figures on how  many that reaches the R1 and what WR they have both as random players and in ranked.

Edited by Gnirf

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