Pay2Lose

[xxNihilanxx]

I frequently see it claimed that this game is "pay2win" but yesterday I was introduced to the idea that this game can also be "pay2lose".

 

So I was sailing my Bismarck on Trap and, while the bulk of both teams were, for whatever reason, fighting over the A point I headed for B to engage an enemy Bismarck who was trying to cap. I moved into the cap zone (it wasn't filled with anti-BB mines - who knew?) and managed to kill the enemy Bismarck. After capping B and spending a few minutes firing flank shots into the enemies fighting for A I drew the attention of a full health Amagi coming from C as well as a Tirpitz heading back from A. Pincered between the two of them I eventually went down but had a lot of fun in the process.

 

Being dead I was now free to spectate the rest of the battle. It was a tier 10 game, but not heavily so, with just one T10 BB on each team. Their T10 was in the throng fighting for A but ours...?

 

Our Grosse Kurfurst was sitting behind the long island that forms the boundary of the B cap. Tucked in nice and safe with nobody able to shoot at him. Of course the reverse was also true.

 

Not wanting to rage in chat or anything I asked him a question that I hoped would spark a thought process in him.

 

"Kurfurst, what can you shoot from there?"

 

His reply - "ur fat mum"

 

OK the tone of the conversation has been set.

 

"You'd probably miss"

 

"no she so fat"

 

Intrigued as I was I had to look him up. What I saw was, at first, what I expected - <44% WR and fewer than 1000 battles. Sailing a Kurfurst. To put this into context, I have just topped 4000 games and my highest tier ship is the Fletcher at 9.

 

I delved deeper. Of his 809 battles he has 573 played in BBs. Less than a third of these were in low/mid tier US BBs - Wyoming 40 battles/17 wins - New York 50 battles/28 wins - New Mexico 45 battles/19 wins.

 

So far, fairly standard.

 

The rest of his BB games were in German BBs, and this is where it got interesting.

 

Nassau 2 games/1 win - Kaiser 3 games/1 win - Konig 9 games/2 wins - Bayern 3 games/ 0 wins

 

So how was he sailing a Grosse Kurfurst?

 

The answer, of course, lies in his last two BBs.

 

Scharnhorst 51 games/17 wins

Tirpitz 333 games/144 wins

 

This guy obviously bought the Tirpitz some time ago and (probably) more recently the Scharnhorst. Not doing particularly well in either of these, and failing really hard in the low tier German BBs, he has taken it upon himself to free XP his way straight to the T10 German BB so now he is in a Kurfurst with 26 games and 10 wins.

 

People may complain about certain premium ships being OP and thus "pay2win" but as I have shown (I am sure this guy is not unique, by any stretch of the imagination) this can well be offest by the fact the game is equally "pay2lose". I would rather have a competent player in something like a Belfast on my team, or on the enemy team for that matter, than someone like our "hero" on either team. It just isn't good for the game. No wonder the sea is so salty. 809 teams have had to put up with this guy so I imagine a lot of frustrated tears have been shed.

 

Sorry for the long post but I just had to get it off my chest.

 

[Murro_the_One]

it was long read but the conversation spiced it up

 

all in all, BB noob

 

[EsaTuunanen]

Those team saboteurs should be locked to co-op.

[Fiery_Kathy]

There's a lot of bad players sailing tier X ships and most of the time thats because of premium purchases.

But you can't really do anything about it, I have used it too to grind for Yamato, as well as other people who are good players too. It's a solid way for WG to make money as well and I personally don't have anything against it.

As my friend stated a couple of times already: "you can fail your way up to tier X, if you just fail long enough or are willing to pay"

[_ramrus_]

tldr

"Kurfurst, what can you shoot from there?"

"ur fat mum"

 

"You'd probably miss"

"no she so fat"

 

 

[Hedgehog1963]

So you have a perceived problem.  What is your soloution?

[Ton0kki]

My favourite are t10 CV players that use only auto-drop. 

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

There's a lot of bad players sailing tier X ships and most of the time thats because of premium purchases.

But you can't really do anything about it, I have used it too to grind for Yamato, as well as other people who are good players too. It's a solid way for WG to make money as well and I personally don't have anything against it.

As my friend stated a couple of times already: "you can fail your way up to tier X, if you just fail long enough or are willing to pay"

 

did faced few players that was 40% with 5k games

[Fiery_Kathy]

did faced few players that was 40% with 5k games

 

weirdly enough all the bad players end up in my team D=

[bushwacker001]

 

 

So what happened? did he shoot your fat mum or what?....I hate stories with loose ends. 

[xxNihilanxx]

So you have a perceived problem.  What is your soloution?

 

Well the solution is obvious, though one that WG would never adopt.

 

Premium ships should be like silver ships and thus only "unlocked" and available for purchase once the player's account has reached that tier on that class.

 

So you don't get to buy the Tirpitz, for example, until you have at least one T8 silver BB.

 

Alternatively, free XP could be restricted to use on modules only. Of course there is even less chance of this happening thanks to the introduction of the Missouri and it's unique method of acquisition.

 

[CleverViking]

and fewer than 1000 battles. Sailing a Kurfurst. To put this into context, I have just topped 4000 games and my highest tier ship is the Fletcher at 9.

 

*Starts backing slowly towards the door, whistling innocently*

[Gnirf]

My favourites are Royal Navy Tech Tree Cruiser owners firing HE......

 

 

To be serious I liked your post OP but remember they fund the game the P2L players and they will help others farm damage XP.

 

Agree with GenrMcAuliffe1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xxNihilanxx]

 

So what happened? did he shoot your fat mum or what?....I hate stories with loose ends. 

 

My mum's 4'11" and skinny as a rake. The chance of him landing a shell anywhere near her is practically zero.

 

Having said that she is approaching 70 so one of his shells landing anywhere in the same county as her is likely to knock her off her feet. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, however, if he did.

[bushwacker001]

 

My mum's 4'11" and skinny as a rake. The chance of him landing a shell anywhere near her is practically zero.

 

Having said that she is approaching 70 so one of his shells landing anywhere in the same county as her is likely to knock her off her feet. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, however, if he did.

 

She could use my mum as a shield.....so could the whole of Yorkshire to be honest. 

[Aotearas]

So you have a perceived problem.  What is your soloution?

 

Not allowing players to unlock ships with free XP unless they have already unlocked a ship of the same class of equal or higher tier through regular grind.

[Iron_Gekko]

My favourite are t10 CV players that use only auto-drop. 

 

I hate this like the plague, its like when world of warships go to Gamescon and have a booth where random people can jump into games with X ships and screw up a whole game for 17 other players... especially if they are the CV

[steviln]

Alternatively, free XP could be restricted to use on modules only. Of course there is even less chance of this happening thanks to the introduction of the Missouri and it's unique method of acquisition.

 

That will not happen, since WG needs the cash it generates. 

[CleverViking]

Not allowing players to unlock ships with free XP unless they have already unlocked a ship of the same class of equal or higher tier through regular grind.

 

That would only partially help though. I unlocked Ibuki a while back and I only used free exp on the last stretch of Mogami IIRC (T10 matches in Mogami was too painfull). A good amount of the grind was without premium as well. An alternative solution would be to force players to grind multiple trees before having access to T8+ or something.

[Gnirf]

 

Well the solution is obvious, though one that WG would never adopt.

 

Premium ships should be like silver ships and thus only "unlocked" and available for purchase once the player's account has reached that tier on that class.

 

So you don't get to buy the Tirpitz, for example, until you have at least one T8 silver BB.

 

Alternatively, free XP could be restricted to use on modules only. Of course there is even less chance of this happening thanks to the introduction of the Missouri and it's unique method of acquisition.

 

 

However the Tirpitz is probably a ship that funds a lot of others, so the business perspective takes over here even though the proposal would make these players disappear to a degree.

We must decide what is in our interests overall. I bought Atago way too early, played some games but returned to the learning process. But many do not have the time or realize the importance of experience.

 

 

I was in the early months not following topics here on how to progress etc but you learn the hard way. Some comes to the conclusion that they must return to Lower tiers others do not.

 

 

But if I have to choose between new shiptrees and development of the game + P2L players or slower/no development it is easy.

The playerbase are too small too make harsh restrictions and players that now are veterans must accept that there are newbie that may not grasp Everything.

What you hope for is better attitude than OPs example. But many may not even know that they are bad.

[Spellfire40]

There's a lot of bad players sailing tier X ships and most of the time thats because of premium purchases.

If you invested enogh time anybody can get a T10. If someone cant deal with the fact that some not so good players arent prevented from arceiving that he shouldnt play a multipler game.

 

We all should take a stop back and think about how much less fun it would be If there were skillbased mm. For each time you curse about a less good playing on your team there are 3 times were If either your team or the enemy was on the same skill level you wouldnt have the epic games you tend to remember foundly.

[bushwacker001]

If you invested enogh time anybody can get a T10. If someone cant deal with the fact that some not so good players arent prevented from arceiving that he shouldnt play a multipler game.

 

We all should take a stop back and think about how much less fun it would be If there were skillbased mm. For each time you curse about a less good playing on your team there are 3 times were If either your team or the enemy was on the same skill level you wouldnt have the epic games you tend to remember foundly.

 

Very true...frustrating when on your team but citadel count would be so much lower without them 

[Fiery_Kathy]

If you invested enogh time anybody can get a T10. If someone cant deal with the fact that some not so good players arent prevented from arceiving that he shouldnt play a multipler game.

 

We all should take a stop back and think about how much less fun it would be If there were skillbased mm. For each time you curse about a less good playing on your team there are 3 times were If either your team or the enemy was on the same skill level you wouldnt have the epic games you tend to remember foundly.

 

you did read that I said that I don't have anything against it, right?

[Charger76]

 

Well the solution is obvious, though one that WG would never adopt.

 

Premium ships should be like silver ships and thus only "unlocked" and available for purchase once the player's account has reached that tier on that class.

 

So you don't get to buy the Tirpitz, for example, until you have at least one T8 silver BB.

 

Alternatively, free XP could be restricted to use on modules only. Of course there is even less chance of this happening thanks to the introduction of the Missouri and it's unique method of acquisition.

 

 

I always said this in WoT.

 

In WoWs I was arrogant enough to think this did not apply to me and out of the gate bought an Atlanta, Tirpitz and Atago and proceeded to play appallingly against experienced players in T8 - T10 who had been invbolved all through closed Beta. I was beyond useless. Worse, I played a LOT of battles with that arrogance and probably deserved a good deal of irritation from team mates forced to carry a total idiot who was basically food for Shimakaze (then 20Km torp wall) and T10 CV's.

 

I would think this much less common now than when the game first went live, albiet in open Beta. Then there were plenty of idiots like me to feed Shimakazes and T10CV's. It is non the less a blight on the game and I agree, you should have to earn a same tier ship in the particular class and nation line (differences can be huge) to be able to buy a premium ship.

 

I accept this falls down where you have no line such as with Blys, Anshan and so on, but perhaps then you allow purchases when a ship oif that class has been unlocked in that tier.

 

I don't see why WG don't intorudce this across the board, I very much doubt it would have any real impact on their premium vehcile sales - if anything it would encourage more premium account sales which is a more consistent income stream.

[Prospect_b]

My favourites are Royal Navy Tech Tree Cruiser owners firing he

 

 

 

In a recent ranked battle while driving the Fiji, a dead teammate shouted out: "Fiji, shoot he!"

 

I really had no idea what to reply.