Jump to content
Aikki

How to Gneisenau?

54 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Beta Tester
20 posts
2,198 battles

 

Hello dear captains and sailors :)

 

After few days of struggle with my new ship...Gneisenau... i  have decided to turn  to you for help, because i really dont know what else to do.  

 

Few weeks ago i started playing WoWs again and i decided to try german BB line...and suprisingly enough i was mostly a very pleasant experience... i had never before such a easy games and never before i felt so invincible in my ships (well maybe with exception of playing with Cleveland during the beta :) ) Few days ago i finished my grind trough Bayern (in which did i pretty well ...in  most of the battles i have ended up victorious with 3-5 kills and 80k-110k damage + i have managed to survive...which i consider a good result for a casual player like me :P:D ) and i bought the Gneisenau.

 

But now...with the Gneisenau...i just dont know what to do ...i rarelly have more than 50 000 damage at the end of the battle, and i rarely survive... When i try to push, i die imediately due to crossfire of enemy BBs shells and DDs torps...and when i try to keep distance and snipe i end up as last surviving ship against whole enemy fleet with no damage whatsoever...

 

I really dont know what i am doing wrong ...i play the same way like before, the matchmaking is actually pretty similar as it was with my Bayern at T6, on the paper the Gneisenau, looks better in almost every way... I really dont know where the problem is ...

 

Well... there are two problems i have noticecd so far...

-Firstly , when i play Gneisenau... i seem to have undivided attention of every fu..ing ship in the enemy team :D ...(srsly when i was playing Bayern or Konig, enemies mostly ingored me unles my team went full potato and decided to camp in the corner of the map which resulted me alone engaging whole enemy fleet :D ) ..really most of the battles it seems like whole enemy team is shooting at me, even when i am surounded by friendly light cruisers...which should be much more tasty targets :D

 

-Secondly ...I cant hit a crap :D ...really...just today for example i had a battle in which i have fired two salvos at broadside Myoko at 7.2 kilometers away and i did not hit him even with a single shell (and it was not due to bad aiming :P i have aimed properrly at the waterline, but some shots just fell short and others overshooted...) ...in other of my BBs when i meet a broadside cruiser under 13 kilometers, that cruiser is dead within few seconds after i spot him, but not with Gneisenau... the shell dispersion is absolutely horrible...which is strange because again, compared to T6 Bayern the dispersion on paper looks pretty similar...

 

So if there is any skilled Gneisenau captain among you fellows , i would really apreciate some advice how to play this ship properly...Thanks ;)

 

Edited by Aikki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
494 posts
9,364 battles

Gneisenau is not a sniper, her dispersion is horrible

The fact she has guns that are hopelessly inaccurate beyond 10k, decent secondaries and torpedo's should tell you that she will do most of her damage up close and personal, 

 

However as you have found out you cannot simply tank in with her at the start, rather play her at the beginning of the battle like a large cruiser, use your speed and manoeuvrability along with the map to find a way of approaching the enemy without drawing all their fire onto you 

 

as always with bb's don't ever go alone,  always travel with ca's and other bb's

 

when the engagement starts look to delete cruisers within 12k of yourself whilst remaining bow on to the nearest enemy bb's , 

When the opportunity presents be ready to sprint in on an enemy bb and unload your torpedo's into him 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,648 posts
12,122 battles

Yes, Gneisenau is a pain in the beginning. She is quite unique in the whole tree and yes, her guns have questionable dispersion. I read somewhere that her dispersion got artificially increased at ranges above 10 km but that may be just a rumor/feeling due to the lacking density of her guns salvoes.

Like her real life counterpart, she is not a ship of the line but rather a great raider and more suited for hunting down or duelling single ships. Her speed, turret layout, turtleback armor, torpedoes and secondary armament lure you into very aggressive play but you may want to save that for later. For the first half of a game you may want to stick to other battleships or swim alongside (not in front of) allied cruisers. Keep in mind your 128mm long range AA guns are the most powerful AA artillery you can find at T7 so you can effectively cover a small flotilla. Only later, after the first enemies got sunk, you can excel at hunting down the rest. Raiding and hunting requires a lot of space (open waters) to maneuver so pushing forward early or sticking too close allies later can get you killed quite easily.

 

Regarding modules, I tried her with full secondary build because at that point I was quite comfortable with my full secondary Scharnhorst. But these ships only share a similar hull while being completely different in playstyle. I gave up the secondary module on Gneisenau in favour of having less dispersion. Secondaries "only" had 6.6 km range (with AFT and flag) but the main guns got significantly more useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
497 posts
4,276 battles

Yes, Gneisenau is a pain in the beginning. She is quite unique in the whole tree and yes, her guns have questionable dispersion. I read somewhere that her dispersion got artificially increased at ranges above 10 km but that may be just a rumor/feeling due to the lacking density of her guns salvoes.

Like her real life counterpart, she is not a ship of the line but rather a great raider and more suited for hunting down or duelling single ships. Her speed, turret layout, turtleback armor, torpedoes and secondary armament lure you into very aggressive play but you may want to save that for later. For the first half of a game you may want to stick to other battleships or swim alongside (not in front of) allied cruisers. Keep in mind your 128mm long range AA guns are the most powerful AA artillery you can find at T7 so you can effectively cover a small flotilla. Only later, after the first enemies got sunk, you can excel at hunting down the rest. Raiding and hunting requires a lot of space (open waters) to maneuver so pushing forward early or sticking too close allies later can get you killed quite easily.

 

Regarding modules, I tried her with full secondary build because at that point I was quite comfortable with my full secondary Scharnhorst. But these ships only share a similar hull while being completely different in playstyle. I gave up the secondary module on Gneisenau in favour of having less dispersion. Secondaries "only" had 6.6 km range (with AFT and flag) but the main guns got significantly more useful.

 

She is a lot like the Scharnhorst, while the Scharnhorst (arguable a better ship) is amazing at hunting DDs and CA's the Gneisenau becomes more of a threat to BBs due to her caliber. Both ships, as you say are not a ship of the line. They are sharks who are excellent in 1 on 1 encounters with any other foe on their tier.

 

Like the Scharnhorst you need to go all out "brawler " build, all your points into secondaries and damage output, forget the skill that gives you an extra "heal" those points need to go into faster firing secondaries instead. If you need to use more then 3 heals, then you are not angling your ship right. Play her like a Destroyer, use cover and strike fast when you have an opening and dont hesitate on the all or nothing gamblings.

 

I have lost count of how many times I have turned a game around by blitzing in and sinking a few CA's and DD's in the space of a few minutes...

 

It's a unique taste over the more passive bombardment types the other nations BB present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-DSA-]
Players
2,710 posts
7,832 battles

Consider this ship a battlecruiser, mostly like the Kongo. This ship cannot win against other BB alone, it is a good supporter. You are the cavalry, go where you are needed, use her speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OP-B]
Players
128 posts
17,492 battles

I had too agresive style with my Gneisenau straight from the get go, but I learned toplay with it just before I sold it.

 

The idea seems to be, that look for cover, and try to get in to 10km unnoticed. If there is lots of enemies, try to stick behind an island or some other cover, until the enemy has weakened a bit. But if there is equally sized or weaker force compared to your side, and you got inside that 10km range, full speed ahead, shoot anything that gives you any broadside, try to get their BB down with torps unless you have to use them to some other enemy ship.

And ramming is option.

 

If someone tries to kite you, try to disengage, as he is most likely in faster ship, and has better accuracy... T7 and below USN and IJN BB's you can try to chase down. but of they are allready in over 10km and running away it's bit of a gamble, as they are much more accurate (have better dispersion) and Kongo will most likely run away with it's superior top speed...

 

The sip is absolutely great if you get below 6km decent up to 9-10km, and worthless in longer distances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
211 posts

Where on earth does the game get the idea that the 15" turret on the Bismarck is fine but the same guns/turret mounted on the Gneisenau have bad dispersion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
769 posts
3,524 battles

 

She is a lot like the Scharnhorst, while the Scharnhorst (arguable a better ship) is amazing at hunting DDs and CA's the Gneisenau becomes more of a threat to BBs due to her caliber. Both ships, as you say are not a ship of the line. They are sharks who are excellent in 1 on 1 encounters with any other foe on their tier.

 

Like the Scharnhorst you need to go all out "brawler " build, all your points into secondaries and damage output, forget the skill that gives you an extra "heal" those points need to go into faster firing secondaries instead. If you need to use more then 3 heals, then you are not angling your ship right. Play her like a Destroyer, use cover and strike fast when you have an opening and dont hesitate on the all or nothing gamblings.

 

I have lost count of how many times I have turned a game around by blitzing in and sinking a few CA's and DD's in the space of a few minutes...

 

It's a unique taste over the more passive bombardment types the other nations BB present.

 

Superintendent is mandatory on brawling German BBs. I would counter "If you need to use more then 3 heals, then you are not angling your ship right" with "if you end the battle with heals left, you weren't aggressive enough"!
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LV-JS]
Players
228 posts
3,224 battles

I hate it alot too...soon i get Bismarck and wont even try to keep Gneis...no joy to play that ship as i have alot better games and more fun in my Texas, even cruisers i play outperforms Gneis..... this ship just doesnt work for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LV-JS]
Players
228 posts
3,224 battles

I had too agresive style with my Gneisenau straight from the get go, but I learned toplay with it just before I sold it.

 

The idea seems to be, that look for cover, and try to get in to 10km unnoticed. If there is lots of enemies, try to stick behind an island or some other cover, until the enemy has weakened a bit. But if there is equally sized or weaker force compared to your side, and you got inside that 10km range, full speed ahead, shoot anything that gives you any broadside, try to get their BB down with torps unless you have to use them to some other enemy ship.

And ramming is option.

 

If someone tries to kite you, try to disengage, as he is most likely in faster ship, and has better accuracy... T7 and below USN and IJN BB's you can try to chase down. but of they are allready in over 10km and running away it's bit of a gamble, as they are much more accurate (have better dispersion) and Kongo will most likely run away with it's superior top speed...

 

The sip is absolutely great if you get below 6km decent up to 9-10km, and worthless in longer distances.

THis sums it up...seeing how 95% games are 4-5dds and or 1-2CVs getting in to 10km is close to impossible without detection. Gneis only can do something when DDs are dead...then he have a chance to brawl otherwise hes outgunned by every other ship in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-DSA-]
Players
2,710 posts
7,832 battles

You think too much about how to drive this ship alone. As I wrote, it is an excellent supporter, that means that you have to cooperate with another BB. Gneisenau is the fastest BB in the game after Iowa/Missouri, she has better armor than some T9 BB, her only problem is small firepower. This is why I feel better in a T9 battle with her than in a T7 battle, where I would have to carry. You must cooperate with some other BB. And you should be the one who kites, you should not be kited, never.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[O_SHI]
Beta Tester
30 posts
5,361 battles

My main problem with this ship is she's a good brawler, but her long to medium range performance is bad due to the unholybad dispersion on the guns and that there are only 6 guns.

This means that you either try to close in too early and get focus fired (literally) down or you hang back and watch you shells land in the next map.

I much prefer the scharnhorst to the gneisenau but you have to just grind through the gnei to get to the bismark which is a far better ship all round (tho i usually forget i'm in the bismark and not the tirpitz right up to the point where I'm wondering where my torps have gone).

Personally I just couldnt make the gnei work at all, it's one of the few BBs I couldnt adopt my play style to fit, same problem i have with the yamato (which suffers from the tier 10 meta as well).

 

Just stick with it and get to the bismark, then don't look back would be my advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
497 posts
4,276 battles

 

Superintendent is mandatory on brawling German BBs. I would counter "If you need to use more then 3 heals, then you are not angling your ship right" with "if you end the battle with heals left, you weren't aggressive enough"!

 

I am either dead or we have won the match by the time I need the extra heal, if brawlers are alive that long they aren't brawling. Alpha damage is at 7k or so range, thats where you do your whole sale murder of DDs and CAs. Even BBs will be hurting due to your secondariness and torps.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,648 posts
12,122 battles

I am either dead or we have won the match by the time I need the extra heal, if brawlers are alive that long they aren't brawling. Alpha damage is at 7k or so range, thats where you do your whole sale murder of DDs and CAs. Even BBs will be hurting due to your secondariness and torps.

 

Same here :) Either I don't even use the 3rd heal, or I get sunk before even using the 2nd one. 4 heals are enough for most games so I rather take Vigilance or Basics of Survivability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-DSA-]
Players
2,710 posts
7,832 battles

"Basics of Survivability" reduces your fire damage by 15% at best (flooding damage is irrelevant as you will use your repair party when you have a flooding)! You survive that long to feel that improvement, but do not survive long enough to use all your heals? BTW: Fire damage can be repaired by 100%.

Edited by Oely001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ORCS]
Players
145 posts
11,698 battles

Consider this ship a battlecruiser, mostly like the Kongo. This ship cannot win against other BB alone, it is a good supporter. You are the cavalry, go where you are needed, use her speed.

 

Agree with the part that says she is a BC not pure BB. Disagree about not wining against other BBs. She will outbrawl Iowa, NC, Colo, Nagato, Amagi even Bismarck if u use her right. Dev striked Iowa 3 times with guns. Just about the best brawler in game. I even made few Tirpitzes humble altho those are superior ships in every respect, more torps, more guns and better accuracy but still i could defeat them in 1 vs 1. Gneise bow on can be killed only by massive HE spam and running into torps so u dont rush her at the beginning. Need to grab a feel about enemy HE spammers and push them back with a few long range salvos. I usualy hit them up to 15km but cit hits are pure rng. Even without cits they tend to hide after few shells land on them and then i try to force their most forward BB into a brawl. Unless its another gneise or scharn. Then i try to find something softer. I have my secondaries to 6.6km and they are awesome at killing DDs when u get manual control. She is able to hold entire flank by herself if u have a single spotter. CV with a squad infront or a smart dd that will stay hidden and just spot for you. In the end game she is actualy the best, u can take out any ship in 1 vs 1 close range no matter the tier. Just have to be careful about torp carrying cruisers, smart skipper with yorck can take u down easy if he has more than 50% of his hp. I love to brawl DDs in the end at caps and usualy sink them in 4 out of 5 tries. Even in last ranked i got all 3 dds one by one in a brawl and left with 5k hp at the end with 2 heals left. Sometimes battle will turn badly fast and u wont have much to do except saving ur skin but with gneise it doesnt happen too often. For me she feels so comfortable that i dont shy from getting into 5 km of Iowa. Only thing Iowa has to offer are main guns and if u stay bow on the damage will be minimal. Turn too early and open side and Iowa will delete u with a single salvo. So actualy combo of ca play with some BB guns and torps + secondaries to melt DDs and for me Gneise is the most versatile BB in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
769 posts
3,524 battles

 

I am either dead or we have won the match by the time I need the extra heal

 

If you're dying before using the last heal then perhaps it's you who's not angling your ship right? :p

 

Jokes aside though. It won't be used in all battles, of course, but I find myself using that last heal very often, and it allows me to stay in the battle longer, do more damage and to influence the end of the game when I would otherwise have been dead. Superintendent is a must-have on all BBs for me, Germans perhaps most of all because the way I play them I tend to take a lot of damage. Sometimes you'll push a bit too much and you'll simply take too much damage and die. It happens. But part of playing German BBs well is managing your health so that doesn't happen. It's a scientifically proven fact that health is beneficial for ships, you want to get as much of it back as you can.

 

 

if brawlers are alive that long they aren't brawling

 

I'm not sure what your definition of brawling is, but surviving a brawl doesn't mean it wasn't a brawl. Just because you're in a German BB doesn't also mean you should always be brawling, it just means you can and you'll be good at it when you do. Naturally superintendent won't help you if you suicide rush simply for the sake of getting into a brawl.

Edited by rvfharrier
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OLDG]
Players
309 posts
5,805 battles

 

I am either dead or we have won the match by the time I need the extra heal, if brawlers are alive that long they aren't brawling. Alpha damage is at 7k or so range, thats where you do your whole sale murder of DDs and CAs. Even BBs will be hurting due to your secondariness and torps.

 

A big part of playing a successful brawler ship is picking your fights. The Gneis often does very well in the mid-to-late game, when enemy destroyer numbers have been blunted, and the teams are more spread out. Then you are more free to pick your targets, so that you can focus your angling, and close at speed while not worrying about torps or getting flanked. If you charge in as soon as the battle begins, you're just likely to be focused down and sunk. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
497 posts
4,276 battles

 

A big part of playing a successful brawler ship is picking your fights. The Gneis often does very well in the mid-to-late game, when enemy destroyer numbers have been blunted, and the teams are more spread out. Then you are more free to pick your targets, so that you can focus your angling, and close at speed while not worrying about torps or getting flanked. If you charge in as soon as the battle begins, you're just likely to be focused down and sunk. 

 

I agree and disagree, a big part of Brawling is pushing the lines and delivering your team the decisive advantage that will give them the automatic win after your sunk. I end up dying in most of my matches with Scharnhorst, but only after bringing down 2 1/2 ships with me while having pushed their lines into a state of panic. Your double torps, heavily focused secondariness and fast loading 280mm completely outmatch anything in that situtation. Especially since your impossible to citidal...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
497 posts
4,276 battles

 even Bismarck if u use her right. 

 

Stock maybe with no captain skills, a Brawler bismarck will kite you at 11km and ruin you with secondariness in 2-3 mins, where do you think my Scharnhorst captain goes when not in a prim ship:izmena:

Edited by Iron_Gekko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
497 posts
4,276 battles

I'm not sure what your definition of brawling is, but surviving a brawl doesn't mean it wasn't a brawl. Just because you're in a German BB doesn't also mean you should always be brawling, it just means you can and you'll be good at it when you do. Naturally superintendent won't help you if you suicide rush simply for the sake of getting into a brawl.

 

I have lost count of the amount of games where Scharnhorst and Gneisenau BBs have spent the whole match at +12km range just pinging away, always upsets me. Kinda like Radar ships sitting in spawn, you have an ability to give your team the game changing advantage but you choose not to because your too worried about your own score and hide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-DSA-]
Players
2,710 posts
7,832 battles

I'm not sure what the purpose of brawling with Gneisenau should be. Her guns are becoming accurate enough at 10 km, and secondaries are not that good to go in only because of them. The only point is that you can torp some other BB, but that's it. In Ranked I play with 7,6 km secondaries, and they are used not so often you may think, because you have to deal with that huge number of enemy torpedos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
497 posts
4,276 battles

I'm not sure what the purpose of brawling with Gneisenau should be. Her guns are becoming accurate enough at 10 km, and secondaries are not that good to go in only because of them. The only point is that you can torp some other BB, but that's it. In Ranked I play with 7,6 km secondaries, and they are used not so often you may think, because you have to deal with that huge number of enemy torpedos.

 

secondaries at 7.6 are exactly the point because they are all HE, perks like added fire chance and all secondaries buff... dont even remember what the HE penetration buff ability is called.

 

This will allow you to hammer ships even if they are angled at 7.6 in the shiney horse.

 

Now take all these sexy captain perks and put it on a Bismarck and you have a terror ship +2...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
769 posts
3,524 battles

 

I have lost count of the amount of games where Scharnhorst and Gneisenau BBs have spent the whole match at +12km range just pinging away, always upsets me. Kinda like Radar ships sitting in spawn, you have an ability to give your team the game changing advantage but you choose not to because your too worried about your own score and hide.

 

If you were talking about max range, 20km spawn sniping, then I'd be with you. But what's wrong with being 12km away if that's what the situation calls for? I don't mean to bring stats into this, but you yourself mentioned to another poster that you rarely survived in your Scharnhorst and so I checked that out. You've only survived 13 out of 64 battles. I feel like, based on your survival rate and what you're saying in this thread, that you charge in too recklessly, too early, too often.

 

It's important to remember that a dead ship is useless to the team. It can't cap, it can't shoot, it can't spot, it loses your team points and benefits the other team points at the moment it dies. There are times and places to push, charging forwards simply for the sake of getting into secondary range because you're in a Gneis/Scharn and that's what you have to do is not automatically beneficial for the team, even if you do take one or two of them down with you before you go. Consider the damage you could do later in the game if you were still alive, perhaps there's a lone full health Colorado that ends up winning the game for them because no one was left to deal with him... if only you were still alive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ORCS]
Players
145 posts
11,698 battles

Not a chance. Last bismarck i outbralwed was a full secondaries speced. Opened up at me from beyond 10 km. But we went head to head and distance dropped fast so my secondaries kicked in too but he couldnt survive torps, took 5 outta 6. If he kept distance at 10km he coulda won but gneise is faster and he would take heavy dmg in a broadside turn which he would have to make. Probably wanted to avoid that and ended up taking torps. So it was a win win situation for gneise once u come close without taking serious dmg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×