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Freyr_90

Going "A" on Neighbors

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Hi everyone! First of all, apologies if this is not the correct section forum.

 

Second, I would just like to hear your thoughts on why so many captains like sailing to A (be it Domination or Standard) on the Neighbors map. I started observing this behavior some time ago and sure, a sneaky DD capping or torping and running away has its advantages, but battleships (in the case of my last game, 3 BBs)? Why? What is there to gain? So far my observations are telling me that more often than not the team that goes there ends up losing. In this particular game I asked (politely) for people not go there at the beginning since it's a Standard game and IMHO there is little benefit of such a position. "Lol why not". I could only respond with "well, you'll see in about 10 min". To be fair it took the enemy a bit more than that as there were a couple of people left with me that did their very best to defend the cap. 

 

Now, I'm not a total potato, but I realize that I have much to learn, so if there's something I'm missing here, please feel free to share :)

 

post-1002276027-0-07384200-1480887517.jp

 

Happy sailing! :)

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Weekend Tester
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Many maps have noob traps like that. Such as D on North or A on Trap.

 

It's beyond me too, how can people not learn. Going for the most isolated caps with slowest ships is good way to lose.

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I feel your pain. People is brainless going to A cause what happens there is that you dont have any cover until you hit those 3 big islands. So if they have a bit smarter than your teammates players, they'll cap C-B fast and deffend B while your braindead team will most likely die 1by1 like always happens, trying to push to B cause of loosing in points and ships down...

But whatcha gonna do? People has to realize on its own that on  this map,the more cover you have, the better positioning, so if you get that sooner or later, your gameplay will get skyrocketed by itself.

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It is one of those maps that leaves ships exposed especially BB's, Once A is captured all ships should sail immediately to B to gain the advantage, but 7/10 times they just won't,  and you can guarantee at the North end they will nearly all be going to C, 2 to A, 1 DD parked behind the island on B.  

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There's nothing inherently wrong with A. It just seems to suck ships down into the corner for some reason, probably because it's so open that they just continue sailing if they don't have any map awareness.

BBs tend to appreciate that DDs rarely go A. And I sometimes go there as well for that same reason both as a DD and BB.

Capturing A is usually low cost and a good idea if you don't go off into the corner and instead head back towards the other caps as soon as A is yours.

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Going A depends on spawn. Sometimes it is the shortest approach. But it is important that the team supports B too and that the ships going for A will turn to B as soon as the threat to A is eliminated.

 

Focusing A alone or continiung behind the islands at A after any threat to A was eliminated is just stupid.

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Going A isn't bad. Capping it and moving to B offers the advantage that most of the enemy view is blocked by the island on the edge of B, while spotting them is easy from the D row and 7 column. The problem is that too often, one team moves to C, half the other team to A, and those going to A still sail beyond the islands into the cap after it has become clear that there is no opposition. So, instead of letting the fastest ship cap while the others turn towards B, there's suddenly a team with four or five ships out of the game for a few minutes. And then it happens that they take the long road to B, sailing behind the top island in A. Horror when that happens. Yet they can still win, with the limited enemy view on B and skillful play of teammates defending there, and are thus vindicated in their stupidity.

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Why, the salty depths boiling with impotent rage is only the natural habitat for potatoes. How do you think potato soup was discovered?

Edited by Aotearas

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The main problem, which causes the uncertain 'circle outside' movement of the general population moving in on A, is down to the islands there. They are big and tall enough that you can't use them for LOS purposes and shoot over them, but at te same time they offer preciously little in terms of protection, as you need to expose yourself, with no other nearby cover, like there is around C and on the north side of B.

 

Thus when you reach A, you are offered the opportunities of bad or worse. Yes, you can head back towards B, which is the only good choice, but it means traversing a significant amount of open water. Nobody really wants to do that in the time it takes to go to A and cap it. There are simply too many enemies able to shoot at you from covered positions... or anywhere really. The 'logical' choice is to push through or around, this is naturally the stupid option (with 'around' being the even worse option of those), but to the people that end up there (I think it is a safe bet that they don't really think about the impact of their actions now and how they will impact their situation in 5 minutes), it present protection and the freedom to not have to turn the turrets over. Especially the last bit is something many people think might not impact their thinking, but way way way too many people get stuck in keeping the turrets to one side, rather than turning them over sooner and being able to move in a more free manner. Going A and then B, violates at least two important aspects of the average player, protection or the lack of it, and keeping the guns to one side.

 

You can see this problem at C too. A very large portion of players go to the outside of the islands on the outside of C, where a theoretical D cap would be. But it is less of a problem there as C is usually the battleground, so they are not as significantly out of the fight, but they also have better cover and appear faster to get back in forwards the center than those that goes to A. Probably has to do with the covered approaches to B that A simply doesn't have.

 

Good players can go for it, on the premise that they will turn back towards B (but obviously most good players won't do that since they know that getting to B from A is a lot more risky than from C, so they don't go) Basically speaking, unless you are in a DD in a 3DD game or you are a good player, stay the hell away from A. It's a black hole. But the simple fact is, if you know this, then you are already good enough to make the decision... but those that do go there are usually not. Once you are capable of going there, you won't.

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I go A on that map because only noobs go there making for easy kills. :trollface:

(I am not being sarcastic I actually do that and it works)

Edited by waxx25
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Actually ... its the BBs.

They fear the little islands (because of the DDs) so they feel safer going to A and that usually leads to certain defeat.

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Actually ... its the BBs.

They fear the little islands (because of the DDs) so they feel safer going to A and that usually leads to certain defeat.

Not sure you're right. It's a potato trap for any ship with high detectability. BBs are usually just more detectable.

 

Also, it should be the other way around. They should fear the open. Among islands, when I need to turn, I can make sure my broadside is covered by an island.

 

Edit: I think unintentional_submarine's analysis is very good.

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I've gone there in a three ship division of Scharn/Gneis, mopped up and turned into B for epic rolling. As with any BB push you have to be committed, if anyone turns away or hides and leaves a comrade it's a bust.

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Not sure you're right. It's a potato trap for any ship with high detectability. BBs are usually just more detectable.

 

Also, it should be the other way around. They should fear the open. Among islands, when I need to turn, I can make sure my broadside is covered by an island.

(...)

 

Not really. BBs don't really fear other BBs. They are wary of them, of course, they know the punch these can pack but that's a known threat they know how to react to. And they're not big on turning anyway :P What they fear is DDs. And with bare minimum of skill (something touching your rudder) you're pretty hard to torp in open waters and a DD that gets too close and is spotted can be wrecked with your guns, your secondaries and/or by your teammates.

Small islands change this. A DD can appear well within his normal detectability, while covered by islands from most of your teammates and with your movements restricted (you don't want to run aground, possibly making evasive actions and/or bringing guns to bear so much harder. A DD (or even torp-equipped cruiser since spotting range is less important!) can ambush a BB among islands and delete him. There are tools to counter this, of course (planes, hydro, common sense and map awareness) but in open waters that's simply not really an option, unless you're REALLY alone and suddenly something appears right before you steaming towards you at engine-boosted 40+ knots.

So yeah, BB players are often scared of small islands and it's not like the fear is unfounded. Yes, they can be used too, but generally speaking it's debatable whether this potential utility really outweighs the problems even for experienced players. Bad players can't really exploit utility while being similarly if not more exposed to additional risks.

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Had an amazing T9 game where 11 out of the 12 southern swap ships went on a lemming train to A (lone DD went C) and the enemy did the same lemming train to C and both teams then met at B for a huge 11 vs 11 brawl all at less than 12km with a 3 BB vs 4 BB brawl just inside/on the edge of the B cap. My side lost by 1 ship but the game was epic (for me) despite that :D

 

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What is worse is when all your BBs go there, arrive at the enemy cap and sit there shooting HE at ships 30km away instead of the DD that is resetting them in cap and losing us the cap race :/

 

Perhaps unsurprisingly this was a division of 3 x 42% players.

 

If you want a slow potato cap rush, then cap it. Don't sit in the cap and decide you want to do some damage.

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Had an amazing T9 game where 11 out of the 12 southern swap ships went on a lemming train to A (lone DD went C) and the enemy did the same lemming train to C and both teams then met at B for a huge 11 vs 11 brawl all at less than 12km with a 3 BB vs 4 BB brawl just inside/on the edge of the B cap. My side lost by 1 ship but the game was epic (for me) despite that :D

 

Had a similar battle on this map, but a storm hit as the brawling began, it was an awesome fight where ships from both teams got detected all around each other and sailing past each other while fighting someone else!

 

Battles like this is what makes this game so awesome, when both teams goes in as a team and brawl.

 

Its nothing wrong to go A, you just have to know when and how to go B afterwards, and not camp or sail around the edge (wich also happens at C)

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Hi everyone! First of all, apologies if this is not the correct section forum.

 

Second, I would just like to hear your thoughts on why so many captains like sailing to A (be it Domination or Standard) on the Neighbors map. I started observing this behavior some time ago and sure, a sneaky DD capping or torping and running away has its advantages, but battleships (in the case of my last game, 3 BBs)? Why? What is there to gain? So far my observations are telling me that more often than not the team that goes there ends up losing. In this particular game I asked (politely) for people not go there at the beginning since it's a Standard game and IMHO there is little benefit of such a position. "Lol why not". I could only respond with "well, you'll see in about 10 min". To be fair it took the enemy a bit more than that as there were a couple of people left with me that did their very best to defend the cap. 

 

Now, I'm not a total potato, but I realize that I have much to learn, so if there's something I'm missing here, please feel free to share :)

 

post-1002276027-0-07384200-1480887517.jp

 

Happy sailing! :)

 

I play DD's a lot and I love picking off BB's at C, so when I'm in a BB I prefer to go to A first then swing round the island at H4 and head to B.

 

The problem with BB's going to A is when they go through A, round the island at G3 then just keep heading north.

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Hi all,

 

I played on this map today with my "Fiji"... I tried to warn my team at the start no to go to A... but alas... they all lemmingtrained there and it was the one and only game I lost today... I tried to fight for B (alone most of the time) but it was futile... :(

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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View PostPhlogistoned, on 18 February 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

Not sure you're right. It's a potato trap for any ship with high detectability. BBs are usually just more detectable.

 

Also, it should be the other way around. They should fear the open. Among islands, when I need to turn, I can make sure my broadside is covered by an island.

(...)

Not really. BBs don't really fear other BBs. They are wary of them, of course, they know the punch these can pack but that's a known threat they know how to react to. And they're not big on turning anyway :P What they fear is DDs. And with bare minimum of skill (something touching your rudder) you're pretty hard to torp in open waters and a DD that gets too close and is spotted can be wrecked with your guns, your secondaries and/or by your teammates.

Small islands change this. A DD can appear well within his normal detectability, while covered by islands from most of your teammates and with your movements restricted (you don't want to run aground, possibly making evasive actions and/or bringing guns to bear so much harder. A DD (or even torp-equipped cruiser since spotting range is less important!) can ambush a BB among islands and delete him. There are tools to counter this, of course (planes, hydro, common sense and map awareness) but in open waters that's simply not really an option, unless you're REALLY alone and suddenly something appears right before you steaming towards you at engine-boosted 40+ knots.

So yeah, BB players are often scared of small islands and it's not like the fear is unfounded. Yes, they can be used too, but generally speaking it's debatable whether this potential utility really outweighs the problems even for experienced players. Bad players can't really exploit utility while being similarly if not more exposed to additional risks.

I don't know if you maybe misread my post. I said 'should' as in they 'ought to', not as in 'they do'.

 

Also, I'm not sure your reasoning is correct either. It's basically the same nambr9 said, just longer.

 

Neither of you are BB mains, I noticed now that I checked.

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This thread is a curse!

Had Neighbours a few times last night, unfortunately in the potato witching hours.......

Despite warnings from multiple team members you just know what happened.

Why do the slowest BB's sail the furthest away then hide there?

When I did eventually get a team that didn't sprout from the earth and went B we had an easy victory.

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I don't know if you maybe misread my post. I said 'should' as in they 'ought to', not as in 'they do'.

 

Also, I'm not sure your reasoning is correct either. It's basically the same nambr9 said, just longer.

 

Neither of you are BB mains, I noticed now that I checked.

 

But they shouldn't. There's relatively little reason to fear the open (unless the "open" is encircled by enemies, of course) and many to fear enclosed space - and while for good players the difference isn't that big and, perhaps, up to personal taste... for average or below average ones the difference becomes all the more emphasized. So the bad BB players especially certainly SHOULD fear closed waters. And since not being a BB main matters so much for you (well, sorry for not having over half of my games in BBs like some of us) - let me add a DD perspective, if my BB one doesn't seem convincing enough. So, as a DD main, let me tell you: it's not the open waters where bad BB players just die from full health. Not even those with tendency to sail in straight lines are as vulnerable as the clueless noobs that get ambushed from 3 km because islands.

Edited by eliastion

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C is a valid cap, same as A and B. Nothing wrong with sending either stealthy cruiser or destroyer there to contest it or scout it.

Why many BB players go there without any support? Because they count on this 1 in 100 game when they go there alone and don't die?

 

I don't think there is a point to talk about strategy in Random mode to be honest, because for strategy to exist, there must be cooperation between people. It is more of making best out of the certain situation and play to the full extend of both yours and your ship capabilities. On the other hand if we assume it is a team play, teams make up comes to play for any strategy to be valid or not. How many destroyers? Gun or Torpedo boats? Is there a CV? Etc, etc.

 

I had a game on this map where all BBs decided to go there. Since they were not very keen on changing direction, I luckily convinced team to go with them. And we walked over enemy because they split their forces. At the end old and good 'stick together' rule came to play.

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