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Wingnut69

A non-smoking generation....

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Just need to get this out of my system. Smoke is so boring.

 

Example from last game: An invisible DD+CA pinging away with HE taking 75% of my HP as a BB, could not get more than one hit on them. I cant go in and chase because the whole enemy team will target me. So I choose the other option- to go back. Turn that big hulk around and go away from the enemy full speed and then go forward again.  But I want to play warships: fire at others and get hit by them, not circle away every time i see a smoke cloud.

 

So I have tried the other shoe, sitting in the smoke and pinging away at others. Yes, it is effective. When me and a team mate alternate smoking it is devastating, but it still it is boring. Enemy can't see me, he can do little but chance fire and chance torps. Here I sit still in the smoke and just shoot, blah, almost invulnerable.

 

I understand that the team mates outside the smoke are spotting but it doesn't matter. When you are sitting in smoke your fire should be largely ineffective or some other fix, I don't know enough to see all ramifications of different solutions.

 

For those players who talk about realism: the BBs had such a hard time spotting that they needed color coded shots IRL WW2. Secondary guns were it even worse off: which one of the ten guns shooting did that splash come from? It would be really interesting to hear some accounts where spotting for ships in smoke was actually used in battle in the 1900-eds. My guess is smoke was used to run close in on an enemy or to cover manouver/retreat. If the wind was blowing in the wrong direction or too heavy, your smoke would be unpredictable.

 

But my gripe is with the gameplay, it has gotten so boring. When I started playing it was manouver and fire. Some skilled players managed to successfully use islands for cover, and that felt OK, they had to move and find the right spot so it was not overpowering. Now it feels, like that part has been suppressed in favour of the skilled "smoke" players. Maybe time to give up on the game, sorry for griping and not suggesting solutions.

 

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Alpha Tester
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Just need to get this out of my system. Smoke is so boring.

 

Example from last game: An invisible DD+CA pinging away with HE taking 75% of my HP as a BB, could not get more than one hit on them. I cant go in and chase because the whole enemy team will target me. So I choose the other option- to go back. Turn that big hulk around and go away from the enemy full speed and then go forward again.  But I want to play warships: fire at others and get hit by them, not circle away every time i see a smoke cloud.

 

So I have tried the other shoe, sitting in the smoke and pinging away at others. Yes, it is effective. When me and a team mate alternate smoking it is devastating, but it still it is boring. Enemy can't see me, he can do little but chance fire and chance torps. Here I sit still in the smoke and just shoot, blah, almost invulnerable.

 

I understand that the team mates outside the smoke are spotting but it doesn't matter. When you are sitting in smoke your fire should be largely ineffective or some other fix, I don't know enough to see all ramifications of different solutions.

 

For those players who talk about realism: the BBs had such a hard time spotting that they needed color coded shots IRL WW2. Secondary guns were it even worse off: which one of the ten guns shooting did that splash come from? It would be really interesting to hear some accounts where spotting for ships in smoke was actually used in battle in the 1900-eds. My guess is smoke was used to run close in on an enemy or to cover manouver/retreat. If the wind was blowing in the wrong direction or too heavy, your smoke would be unpredictable.

 

But my gripe is with the gameplay, it has gotten so boring. When I started playing it was manouver and fire. Some skilled players managed to successfully use islands for cover, and that felt OK, they had to move and find the right spot so it was not overpowering. Now it feels, like that part has been suppressed in favour of the skilled "smoke" players. Maybe time to give up on the game, sorry for griping and not suggesting solutions.

 

 

 

 

There is plenty people can do when you 'pling away in your smoke'.

 

Especially since you don't actually seem to be doing it very well anyway ( certainly not 'devastating' ). Guess what, using smoke takes some skill just as counterplaying smoke takes some skill.

 

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I agree with MTM78.

Wingnut69

The Belfast, for instance, is a powerful ship and can do immense damage in a short matter of time whilst in smoke, but it can also be vulnerable at the same time, a skilled player will know what angle to be and movements to take while firing, he has to be aware of his surroundings and ships he focused on before he smoked up, a lot of players have still yet to master this skill.

What is needed is for you to master the capabilities of your ships, plan your attack strategy, constantly be watching your minimap and the ship names on the map, make sure you are with support ships and communicate with team-mates.

 Games become more fun when you gain the skills to play them at their best. 

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Don't like it, don't play.  There's a lot more to using smoke than just hiding in it and plinking 127mm HE at a BB.

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While i can understand the irritation of smoke it's just knowing how to counter it, which is pretty easy just see where the enemys shots are coming from and shot there and half the time you will get hits and if you do you just need to remember where to shot again, atleast that tends to work most of the time for me.

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pro tip: DDs with wall of skill can torp the smoke. pro tip 2:  planes.  pro tip 3: radar the smoke. It's not brain surgery.  Useless team be useless.  Roll with radar from now on or have a division mate roll with radar.  Let me guess BB player? Everything is OP because you can't get your way? How about a BB never really one-shotted anything IRL, not even a DD.  I don't want to hear it.

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Alpha Tester
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Let me guess BB player?

 

Nope he plays all classes evenly it seems. 

 

And it's perfectly fine to find smoke 'boring'. But that mostly involves not understanding the counterplay. If you see smoke and just camp because ' there be hidden ships '  then it is boring. If you can actually counter it, it's actually pretty engaging / challenging. And don't people want challenging gameplay or should everything be point and click? 

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Two people playing together, synergizing and exploiting their strengths shouldn't be easily countered by a single player without the proper tools for it. That is the start and end of that particular debate. What you can do is ask your teammates that do have the right tools to deal with that situation (in case of smoke, cruisers with radar, DDs that could torpwall the smoke or maybe smoke you up in turn for you to disengage). And if that doesn't work, don't begrudge the enemy for their teamwork, begrudge your team for not working together!

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Problem with the current smoke-meta is some times, no more than some times, all ships that are supposed to scout for you pops smoke and then no one spots anything. So your slow BB crawl along to go spot yourself, but tons of time go by with no targets at all. And during all this, all the DDs and CR with smoke just sit in their cloud waiting for someone else to spot for them. It's pear shaped some times.

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There is plenty people can do when you 'pling away in your smoke'.

 

Especially since you don't actually seem to be doing it very well anyway ( certainly not 'devastating' ). Guess what, using smoke takes some skill just as counterplaying smoke takes some skill.

 

 

Yeah. Can't count the number of times people have correctly predicted my location in smokes, or I have done so to them. Anyone that has played against RN cruisers has probably managed a Devastating Strike against one while he was sitting in smoke.

 

I believe Flamu stated in last night's stream that he would make a tutorial of sorts to teach people how to shoot into smoke, particularly from battleships.

Edited by Unintentional_submarine

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I believe Flamu stated in last night's stream that he would make a tutorial of sorts to teach people how to shoot into smoke, particularly from battleships.

 

I actually heard him say he kinda did not like having taught people how to counter smokes already as he keeps getting countered in them now ( but yeah he explained spotter plane usage for smoke firing due to more horizontal control, guess that would be new for lots of people ) :trollface:

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i can understand if you don't like the "sit in smoke and fire guns" but its just one aspect of the game

I personally don't much like cv play but I do have the odd game to keep me aware of how to counter cv but I wouldn't want cv manual drop removed because I don't like how the planes get closer and give me less chance to dodge

I honestly cant find a fault with smoke firing because its easy to counter it


 


 

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[-5D2-]
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Yeah. Can't count the number of times people have correctly predicted my location in smokes, or I have done so to them. Anyone that has played against RN cruisers has probably managed a Devastating Strike against one while he was sitting in smoke.

 

I believe Flamu stated in last night's stream that he would make a tutorial of sorts to teach people how to shoot into smoke, particularly from battleships.

 

The clan i'm with teach it most weeks in training matches. Being an RN player I'm usually on both ends of the stick. Heck dare I say its the only thing left in the game that relies on skill and not something just made out of nothing.

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Yeah. Can't count the number of times people have correctly predicted my location in smokes, or I have done so to them. Anyone that has played against RN cruisers has probably managed a Devastating Strike against one while he was sitting in smoke.

 

I believe Flamu stated in last night's stream that he would make a tutorial of sorts to teach people how to shoot into smoke, particularly from battleships.

 

This. I don't know how many times that ive been chased from smoke by well coordinated BB and CL attacks inside smoke.  Its just that people don't do it.  The smoke isn't that big to hide that hull in and can get a bit scary.  

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pro tip: DDs with wall of skill can torp the smoke. pro tip 2:  planes.  pro tip 3: radar the smoke. It's not brain surgery.  Useless team be useless.  Roll with radar from now on or have a division mate roll with radar.  Let me guess BB player? Everything is OP because you can't get your way? How about a BB never really one-shotted anything IRL, not even a DD.  I don't want to hear it.

 

Por tip DD's all hide behind an island and do nothing, pro tip 2 CV ignores scouting, pro tip 3 I don't have a ship capable of fitting radar

 

BB's never one shotted anything.....I suggest you check out HMS Hood vs Bismarck irl.

 

Currently unless you get a team that works together properly (rarely.I've given up playing today its so bad) it turns into camp and snipe, If I wanted to play like that I'd be playing arty in WoT

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There is plenty people can do when you 'pling away in your smoke'.

 

Especially since you don't actually seem to be doing it very well anyway ( certainly not 'devastating' ). Guess what, using smoke takes some skill just as counterplaying smoke takes some skill.

 

 

 

Wait a second I thought you said Belfast was op with its smoke. Now there is a counter! Ahh. :ohmy:

 

Op smoke is annoying I know. But you seem to already have the idea. Stay away from smoke in a battleship.

 

Basically at range smoked up ships become useless wether they are destroyers or cruisers. They just made themselves a static bunker. It's rarely a good idea to go to smoke in a battleship. Leave that to allies cruisers and destroyers.

 

This is the life of a battleship that there are some things you just have to avoid and hope your team mates have the brains to do something about. Just pray they aren't all smoked up lobbing HE at the enemy battleships...

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Wait a second I thought you said Belfast was op with its smoke. Now there is a counter! Ahh. :ohmy:

 

I never said it was the smoke, Fiji has the same smoke :rolleyes: 

 

It's Belfast having smoke + hydro + radar + (IF)HE  :popcorn:

 

 

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I never said it was the smoke, Fiji has the same smoke :rolleyes: 

 

It's Belfast having smoke + hydro + radar + (IF)HE  :popcorn:

 

 

 

 

-torps 

-heal

- RN AP

 

Come on try to be balanced just 1 time.:yes_cap:

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-torps 

-heal

- RN AP

 

Come on try to be balanced just 1 time.:yes_cap:

 

Yeah yeah your opinion vs every player I know who meh.. are members of teams which win tournaments and have Yt channels, twich streams, you know people who actually know what they are talking about.

 

And we already know you like your main ship to stay as is, so maybe stop trying to tell people Belfast is not OP? And Jiji is already really strong, now add IFHE and radar. 

 

Go watch some flamu, tell me how he doesn't know what he is talking about. Or the people from TTT you been arguing with in the other thread how Belfast is balanced :rolleyes:

Edited by mtm78

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Yeah yeah your opinion vs every player I know who meh.. are members of teams which win tournaments and have Yt channels, twich streams, you know people who actually know what they are talking about.

 

And we already know you like your main ship to stay as is, so maybe stop trying to tell people Belfast is not OP? And Jiji is already really strong, now add IFHE and radar. 

 

Go watch some flamu, tell me how he doesn't know what he is talking about. Or the people from TTT you been arguing with in the other thread how Belfast is balanced :rolleyes:

 

haha let's not turn this into a Belfast is op thread. But if it's so op. Why is it not near your top performing ship? PS Flamu shows a very situational game where he camps and idiots come to him in his belfast. Any ship is op when faced with idiots popping smoke upfront of a radar ship...

 

Ps it's only just in your top 50 ship list so...

 

Ps  a heads up that having a you tube channel or streaming doesn't make your opinion correct. The facts and stats do. Pps  I have a you tube channel so I'm right.:D

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I don't like it, but me not performing on the same level as better players who do like it doesn't mean I can't tell if the ship has an unbalanced consumable stack :)

 

If my performance would be indicative of OP ships, there are some ships like Karlsruhe which would need to be nerved ( and I played that before the buffs ), just as my pre buff Furutaka performance would suddenly mean those buffs weren't needed?

 

Personal performance should never be your only source on which you base ship balance Dominico ( not your own, not any other single person ). 

 

And having a channel doesn't make anyone correct. But having a channel and showing on that channel how 'balanced' a ship is does to quite a substantial degree ( taking into account he is not an average player so most ships he plays will perform significantly better then they would in the hands of others ). 

 

Anyway, we're not even that far off topic, OP's complaints about smoke are comparable with the Belfast debate. Both are about opinions, either about game mechanics or ship balance, and how those opinions should always preferably be based on more then a personal viewpoint :)

 

 

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I don't like it, but me not performing on the same level as better players who do like it doesn't mean I can't tell if the ship has an unbalanced consumable stack :)

 

If my performance would be indicative of OP ships, there are some ships like Karlsruhe which would need to be nerved ( and I played that before the buffs ), just as my pre buff Furutaka performance would suddenly mean those buffs weren't needed?

 

Personal performance should never be your only source on which you base ship balance Dominico ( not your own, not any other single person ). 

 

And having a channel doesn't make anyone correct. But having a channel and showing on that channel how 'balanced' a ship is does to quite a substantial degree ( taking into account he is not an average player so most ships he plays will perform significantly better then they would in the hands of others ). 

 

Anyway, we're not even that far off topic, OP's complaints about smoke are comparable with the Belfast debate. Both are about opinions, either about game mechanics or ship balance, and how those opinions should always preferably be based on more then a personal viewpoint :)

 

 

 

 

 

But in the other thread about op ships. It was so awesome even a chimp could do aamazingly in it. And it beats every other ship and is op. But clearly this is BS.

 

So you are admitting it's not so op. Just in certain situations when it gets to use it's radar against ships in smoke. Or it is op but not for you. Or it's op only when really good players are in it...

 

And what if he performed better in other "none op" cruisers would it still be classed as a super amazing ship that is uncounterable and wins everything.

 

Cause I can tell you he does better in a lot of cruisers including Edinburgh moskva atago emerald, Mikhail  kutozov. And performs almost the same in prinz  eugen, Molotov, does Moines and a lot of other ships he plays better in but played few games.

 

So are they all overpowered or is it just if it has consumables which make it op despite its actual performance... personal performance can't be used as a measure. And overall performance can't be used  and the guy who says it's op performance can't be used so... Just someones  opinion can be used when the evidence points otherwise?

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