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VC381

Shchors... Hmm...

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So I've decided Soviet cruisers will be the next line I try and take all the way to T10. I had a blast up to Budyonny but I took a break after rage-selling the Shchors. I've now re-bought it, Free XP-ed all the upgrades, and it still wasted no time in reminding me why I rage-sold it in the first place. Basically, I feel like I'm a giant target with no tools to do anything about it when the enemy team inevitably agrees with this assessment. It's now firmly at the bottom of my T7 cruiser stats.

 

Now, I don't mean to brag, but I consider myself a good cruiser player. I do well in a lot of cruisers that many think are weak and I've still managed good stats in those few cruisers I haven't particularly enjoyed. So Shchors is an exception for me and it really annoys me that I can't get this ship to work. I really want to like it, or at least do well enough to speed up the grind, but I just can't.

 

I'm starting to eye that Free XP counter. Anyone got any tips for me before I do that?

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Beta Tester
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Upgrade its captain, get concilment, and stealth burn all, same with Chapaev. Had a blast in Budyony myself, and needed some time to adjust to the Shorsh and afterwards it was pretty much same as Shorsh in Chapaev, Dmitry is a different strory afterwards.

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Supertester
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I have a 13 point captain, took concealment and now working my way to IFHE. I'm pretty sure Shchors can't stealth fire, at least not without the spotter plane.

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I've ended my Shchors with 76% WR and 60k avg damage after 76 games (with captain retraining and grinding from stock, since I didn't use free xp) and decided to keep her in my port.

I loved that ship, since I had a bunch of 120k+ damage games in her. She can make all the enemy BBs pull their hair in despair and curse you in chat because of your fires :D
 

First things first, I THINK (maybe I'm wrong) that she can stealthfire, but with some ~1km window, so its not that easy to pull off.
Now, for the gameplay... You are a squishy paper ship with huge citadel but with great guns and great range. It literary feels like someone put great guns on a cardboard box. And you turn like a brick. (That makes you a cardboard brick which doesn't really makes sense,  but yea... :D ) So, you have to learn how to use concealment / terrain and your huge range. That literary means, find yourself a nice island to park behind, so you stay undetected, and rain fire on everything in your range. Don't EVER get at some 13 km away from enemy BB thinking that you will wiggle and waggle your way out while happily spamming him. You won't. He will delete you from any possible angle because you are a floating citadel. But when staying 16km away from him, or behind the island, the tables quickly turn and you will burn him down with ease. And with Russian railguns, its easy to hit BBs from 16km, and other cruisers from 14-15 km, so you don't have problems with that. Heck, its quite easy to even hit DDs from 10-11 km...

You are simply not a first line ship. Heck, most of the times you aren't even second line ship. You are the one that will stay at cover and snipe, or be in line with your BBs and snipe from there. Its all about positioning and raining down shells on everyone that enters your range, and then Shchors is amazing.

Ofc, don't forget that you have quite capable AP so you can punish a lot of cruisers showing your broadside. But even if you don't, that ship starts so many fires that its not unusal to have 2 fires on cruisers at all times, then just dissengaging and letting them burn down.

Frustrating as hell at times, because you simply cannot get yourself out of even half of a bad position, but really rewarding with good positioning / terrain abusment.

  • Cool 1

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Supertester
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Thank you, you've inspired me to keep practicing :honoring: although it does sound like I need to be a dirty coward to get something out of this ship. I'm way too aggressive in my cruisers but usually I play something that lets me get away with it. Probably I need to be in a different mindset here, more similar to how I play 155mm Mogami I guess. I know what the guns can do, I've played Kutuzov a lot but that ship has troll smoke and also turns decently.

 

EDIT:

 

Yes, the ship has 0.9km invisifire window (15.9km surface detection when firing, 16.8km firing range)

 

Also, I took it for a spin with your advice:

 

shot-17.02.14_21.43.52-0439.jpgshot-17.02.14_21.44.00-0792.jpgshot-17.02.14_21.44.10-0547.jpgshot-17.02.14_21.44.19-0197.jpg

shot-17.02.14_21.43.52-0439.jpg

shot-17.02.14_21.44.00-0792.jpg

shot-17.02.14_21.44.10-0547.jpg

shot-17.02.14_21.44.19-0197.jpg

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I find Shchors far more alike Kirov than Buddy. It's a paper sniper. The difference is that Kirov has better range and better AP for her tier. And if you're used to Kirov, Buddy is downright tanky, which is one reason why Shchors feels so prone to sinking the moment you're spotted. The key is to use the good range to the full extent. Mostly ships that snipe will be more useless than those who actually get within a reasonable distance, but Shchors can even hit destroyers at any range she can shoot at. With a spotting plane if you've got good aim. The HE is good enough to set plenty of fires, but the AP still isn't bad, so if you see a broadside, AP it. Does decent damage to battleships as well. This is also one of the ships that benefit from Priority Target the most. You really want to know if someone's looking your direction so you can take evasive manoeuvres if necessary. Even with the slow turn, at the range you're comfortable at, you can still dodge.

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Biggest problem is probalby change of enviroment - you face T9 now, which dont give you chance if you make mistake. As others stated, Schor is direct upgrade (except for turn radius) so if you did like Buddy, there is no reason to hate Schors. I find Schors with IPHE being very capable dmg dealer, but you have to stay at range. Your turn radius mean you can hardly dodge BB salvo even at mid range, which leads to disastrous results when making mistake. Imho thats the issue - your ship is simply better, but there is much less room for mistake.

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Thank you, you've inspired me to keep practicing :honoring: although it does sound like I need to be a dirty coward to get something out of this ship. I'm way too aggressive in my cruisers but usually I play something that lets me get away with it. Probably I need to be in a different mindset here, more similar to how I play 155mm Mogami I guess. I know what the guns can do, I've played Kutuzov a lot but that ship has troll smoke and also turns decently.

 

EDIT:

 

Yes, the ship has 0.9km invisifire window (15.9km surface detection when firing, 16.8km firing range)

 

Also, I took it for a spin with your advice:

 

shot-17.02.14_21.43.52-0439.jpgshot-17.02.14_21.44.00-0792.jpgshot-17.02.14_21.44.10-0547.jpgshot-17.02.14_21.44.19-0197.jpg

 

Glad it helped :)

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Supertester
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The environment is less forgiving but so is the ship, at least compared to the other T7 cruisers that all have at least one "trick" to help them stay alive better. But T7 MM is usually quite good, much more likely to be top tier than to see T9. I had couple of good games yesterday but there came a point where I wasn't sure if I was doing something right or just getting lucky with my team doing well and/or the enemy ignoring me. It feels like a ship that isn't going to do much if your team is collapsing.

 

I do have PT and it's a great help.

 

I'm looking forward to this IFHE, sounds fun! What about higher up thought? Is IFHE still useful on Donskoi and Moskva or do I re-spec the captain at T9?

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Not got this ship (another line to grind) so take this with a pinch of salt but i know they are not hard to sink and I don't worry too much about them.  Even more so if you have that Fire retardant skill. They turn like a brick (compared) and when spotted they evaporate quick due to their big citadel and size in general.  They are great at long range spamming (Please see Kutuzov) but like VC381 has rightly said, it hasn't got smoke to save it from those situations it gets into or turn rate.

 

Put it this way, i wouldn't look forward to the grind.   

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I'm looking forward to this IFHE, sounds fun! What about higher up thought? Is IFHE still useful on Donskoi and Moskva or do I re-spec the captain at T9?

 

Not sure about Donskoi, but you don't need it on Moskva.

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Not sure about Donskoi, but you don't need it on Moskva.

 

Well, I'm going to get it anyway because I have a whole Chapaev ahead of me before that, and it should make it very fun. After that, I'll see how badly I think I need those 4 points for something else. If not I'll keep it just to make Kutuzov even more evil...

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Not sure about Donskoi, but you don't need it on Moskva.

 

AFAIK it helps, but not as much as in case of 150 guns. Its just "good" level, not "must have". Only ship which have no reason to use IPHE is Moskva.

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Well, I'm going to get it anyway because I have a whole Chapaev ahead of me before that, and it should make it very fun. After that, I'll see how badly I think I need those 4 points for something else. If not I'll keep it just to make Kutuzov even more evil...

 

Well, I've left my old captain in Chappy, since I like Chappy, and I kept her for ranked / competitive games (yay, rankeds are t7 -.-'), and put a new captain in Donskoi that will go into Moskva...

Kutuzov and Chappy have great synergy between their captains, Kutuzov/Chappy with Moskva not so much...

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So I've decided Soviet cruisers will be the next line I try and take all the way to T10. I had a blast up to Budyonny but I took a break after rage-selling the Shchors. I've now re-bought it, Free XP-ed all the upgrades, and it still wasted no time in reminding me why I rage-sold it in the first place. Basically, I feel like I'm a giant target with no tools to do anything about it when the enemy team inevitably agrees with this assessment. It's now firmly at the bottom of my T7 cruiser stats.

 

Now, I don't mean to brag, but I consider myself a good cruiser player. I do well in a lot of cruisers that many think are weak and I've still managed good stats in those few cruisers I haven't particularly enjoyed. So Shchors is an exception for me and it really annoys me that I can't get this ship to work. I really want to like it, or at least do well enough to speed up the grind, but I just can't.

 

I'm starting to eye that Free XP counter. Anyone got any tips for me before I do that?

 

Just stat captain for fire damage/HE pen and you are good to go. Chapy is even more annoying HE spammer crapthat tier7 one. All you have to do in Shchors - find a island thats close to where enemies gather and you are able to shoot over it, first get them in range and start spamming HE and lighting them all on fire, wait for repairs and do again, when they start getting out ofthe range pop a spotter plane and get that extra range to get few more fires on enemy.... AFter that its kinda situational as you have only 4km torps, so you will need to charge on BBs...but most of the time its doable if you surprise BB from  ~8km and less.

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As others stated, Schor is direct upgrade (except for turn radius) so if you did like Buddy, there is no reason to hate Schors.

 

I wouldn't quite call Shchors a direct upgrade. Buddy isn't quite as easy to citadel. Or at least in my experience. I could go far more aggressive than either Kirov or Shchors in Buddy.

 

But T7 MM is usually quite good, much more likely to be top tier than to see T9.

 

Unless you're in my Yorck. I now actually have four non-T9 games (I was quite surprised to get two T8 battles in a row today), but that's out of 14, so ten T9 battles.

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Supertester
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Hmm, strange. I'm top tier maybe 40% of the time or more in T7 ships, T8 games about the same, maybe a bit less, and only very rarely in T9.

Well, I actually saw that sometimes an enemy Shchors would ignore my BB rounds so I started doing the same thing. Turns out if you sail broadside and just hope for overpens you survive better than trying to dodge and end up taking full pens and citadels while angled. Go figure...

But, my fears were somewhat warranted. Played a few games where my team derped hard and there was nothing I could do. I still racked up good damage (70k or so) but the damage came too slowly to help the team in time.

Also the angle on that third turret is really being a thorn in my side.

 

EDIT:

 

An island you can shoot over, with those flat arcs?! Is that a thing? Anyway I'm not fond of island hiding, I prefer the "drive-by" approach while keeping friendlies between me an the reds so I'm less likely to take the heat.

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An island you can shoot over, with those flat arcs?! Is that a thing? Anyway I'm not fond of island hiding, I prefer the "drive-by" approach while keeping friendlies between me an the reds so I'm less likely to take the heat.

 

Yup. Just don't hug island like you would do in atlanta, but stay a bit away from it, and you are fine :)

As long as you have any kind of obstacle inbetween you and enemy to obscure they view (even some REALLY small islands work wonders), you are fine.

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So... this happened today...

 

shot-17.02.16_20.49.29-0533.jpgshot-17.02.16_20.49.42-0999.jpg

 

Yup, back to back Krakens :B and I got one a little while back, making it 3 krakens in 14 games with this ship. Average damage has jumped to 61k. I think I get it now, thanks again! :great:

shot-17.02.16_20.49.29-0533.jpg

shot-17.02.16_20.49.42-0999.jpg

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I've just got into the DM, having real trouble with it. Why is it so much more difficult than the chappy? It's less maneuverable than a BB, squishier than a DD and if you get anywhere near a DD to use radar you are going to have a real hard time with torps.

 

As far as I can tell it's a long range HE spammer against BBS, but every BB I meet outguns me in both range and damage. So could someone give me clues?

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I've just got into the DM, having real trouble with it. Why is it so much more difficult than the chappy? It's less maneuverable than a BB, squishier than a DD and if you get anywhere near a DD to use radar you are going to have a real hard time with torps.

 

As far as I can tell it's a long range HE spammer against BBS, but every BB I meet outguns me in both range and damage. So could someone give me clues?

 

This discussion has kind of run its course so I don't mind you hijacking my thread, but there are lots of other topics discussing Des Moines. Anyway, I only got my DM recently and haven't played it a whole lot, but to me it's the exact opposite, a medium range brawling ship with a lot of AP use.

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Wow you're totally right, I meant the Dmitry Donskoi, proper brain fart shortening to DM, clearly that's the des moines. Sorry for the mistake. Hopefully a tier 9 russian CC is more thread related.

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That I can't help with although I'm interested in what tips other people have since I'm on Chapaev now and will be getting Donskoi eventually.

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Donskoi is more of a Moskva gameplay then anything else...

Slap on range module (had reload, switched it for range), stay at 18km and burn down BBs... When BBs are removed, then you go in and clean up the rest...

Otherwise you will just suffer. You take citadels from strangest angles, and once again turn like a brick (something whole line suffers from).

But, when that BB is removed, and you close a bit of a distance, even your AP will work wonders...

tl;dr, its not for a people that enjoy brawling / action packed gameplay, its more of a sit back and snipe type of ship

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Supertester
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But the Donskoi already has 17.8km base range, does it really need to be further away than that?!

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