Mahan or Akatsuki?

[SeaWolf7]

Ok fairly simple. need to choose between the two as I need a tier7 destroyer for ranked purposes....without having to p2p.

They are very different and perform different roles and due to the current meta in ranked its looking as if IJN might be the stronger bet....

Your thoughts and why are as ever greatly appreciated.

[loppantorkel]

I don't think either are suited tbh, but I'd go with Mahan of those two. Given the new ships and that I haven't entered ranked this season, other people might know better...

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

would say still maham better

 

[Boris_MNE]

Mahan all the way.

[SeaWolf7]

would say still maham better

 

Mahan all the way.

 

ok thanks because......?

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Why would anyone take an Akatsuki over a Shira into Ranked? 

 

[Boris_MNE]

Because Mahan has better guns, nice torpedoes, ok concealment.. more versatility for your team. Also there is great smoke for your teammates (USN Smokes op)

[ollonborre]

 

 

ok thanks because......?

More HP, better gunpower, nimbler, has Defensive AA, torpedoes are still useful and it has better smokes.

[SeaWolf7]

Why would anyone take an Akatsuki over a Shira into Ranked? 

 

Because im on the other IJN destroyer line....?

They moved things around a while ago and I wanted to ask so I could make an informed choice rather than a weak one and it effect my team mates.

I got the Mahan anyway as on closer inspection of course its stronger over all especially with US smoke as mentioned.

Its already helped to secure 2 wins lol.

[Barkyro]

Well personally I would suggest Shyratsuyu but if not then Mahan for american smoke but make sure to spec on concealment as the 7.9 is quite a burden.

 

All the best,

Barky

[SeaWolf7]

Well personally I would suggest Shyratsuyu but if not then Mahan for american smoke but make sure to spec on concealment as the 7.9 is quite a burden.

 

All the best,

Barky

 

I was looking on you tube and I think it was noster or flamu saying that the Shyratsuyu was one of the best for countering the current meta in Ranked....eg having great concealment and sufficient torps to deal wit this, however then I found contradictory advise and found that the Mahan would be better. 5 guns giving it far better dpm and 3x4 torps giving it More torps than the shyra (less speed and distance though). better smoke as stated etc. However a trade off with the concealment is to be expected when comparing USN to IJN. the Mahan is also more manoeuvrable. So apart from concealment......the Mahan is superior it seems.... ....?

 

[Barkyro]

 

I was looking on you tube and I think it was noster or flamu saying that the Shyratsuyu was one of the best for countering the current meta in Ranked....eg having great concealment and sufficient torps to deal wit this, however then I found contradictory advise and found that the Mahan would be better. 5 guns giving it far better dpm and 3x4 torps giving it More torps than the shyra (less speed and distance though). better smoke as stated etc. However a trade off with the concealment is to be expected when comparing USN to IJN. the Mahan is also more manoeuvrable. So apart from concealment......the Mahan is superior it seems.... ....?

 

 

Meeeeh not really. I have played the Mahan (only in randoms) and it is in no way superior except for US smoke of course. You are a monster in under 6 km against any DD but the spotring range it has just kills it now. The torps on it even if they seem more you need to understand that you can only launch 2 on one side then you need to swing around and launch the other quad that is left. They are alot slower and even with the buffed torps I think it has the 9.2 km ones it is still a burden. In Shyra you also have the reload module for torps besides the smoke and speed so you can actually put 16 fish in the water over ~8 seconds guns are extremely hard hitting against enemy DD's better invisi fire and you can actually shoot at range since the arcs allows it. Personally I would never take the Mahan out in ranked battles but thats just me.

 

All the best,

Barky

[SeaWolf7]

 

Meeeeh not really. I have played the Mahan (only in randoms) and it is in no way superior except for US smoke of course. You are a monster in under 6 km against any DD but the spotring range it has just kills it now. The torps on it even if they seem more you need to understand that you can only launch 2 on one side then you need to swing around and launch the other quad that is left. They are alot slower and even with the buffed torps I think it has the 9.2 km ones it is still a burden. In Shyra you also have the reload module for torps besides the smoke and speed so you can actually put 16 fish in the water over ~8 seconds guns are extremely hard hitting against enemy DD's better invisi fire and you can actually shoot at range since the arcs allows it. Personally I would never take the Mahan out in ranked battles but thats just me.

 

All the best,

Barky

 

this is so confusing so the configuration of the torps actually allow the Shyra to fire more even though they have less. guns harder hiting, but less etc etc. ive been trying to learn this game in depth to have a better understanding but it is just so contradictory in nearly every way. Everything keeps changing, nothing on paper is as what it seems. I guess it will come down to player style but at the end of the day ive become beyond frustrated...was looking forward to having a good result in ranked this season but with all the premium ships running around and smoke just being a torp magnet and any advantage this may have now taken away by radar everybody insulting everybody in game even when they are dead..what's the point?

It seems like a bloody fiasco at the moment. not fun.

 

[Barkyro]

Ok lets take it simple

Mahan has 3 x 4 torp launchers I think there the 9.2 km range ones(might be wrong anyone feel free to correct me) but only one is centrally mounted the other two are side mounted like cruisers have for example. Thus you can fire off 8 and then need to turn your ship to fire off the other 4. Mahan has 5 guns unless you went for the C hull which has 4 guns. They should load in like 3 seconds something but you are going to have a hell of a time hitting a maneuvering DD at 6 + km's but in DPM Mahan is king. Can not comment the reload on the torps so forum please help. Mahan does beat the Shyra in HP but in the current meta with a butload of 152 mm CL's it dosent matter all that much and I think the best conceal on it can get to 7.1 7.0 km(forum also help). Mahan also has really good turret traverse as well and good smoke.

Shyratsuyu has 2 x 4 torp launchers at 10 km and are decently fast but it has a 3rd consumable besides the smoke and the speed you get torpedo reload which reloads your torps in 5 seconds but then needs a cooldown so one in each 3 salvos will be a 16 torp salvo give or take. It also has 5 guns 2 x 2 and 1 x 1 of IJN 127 MM which mean they have a nice flat trajectory and can hit constantly at 9-10 KM's but the reload on the guns is horrible and so is te turret traverse speed. But here is the catch Shyra can get down to 5.8 km spotting range which rofl-stomps anything it can possibly meet and it also means it can stealth fire from ~10 kms something so your torp range is also your invisifire range and you can bait BB's into torps without being seen or bait CL's into using radar.

Thats why I would give it the best DD award for this season of ranked but its youre choice in the end.

 

Edit one I have found a Mahan video from ranked, ill also post one of the Shyra just so you get an idea (there not the best vids by far but they do get the point around:

Mahan

Shyratsuyu(this one is a bit more explanatory)

 

All the best,

Barky

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Shira is a potential Ranked pick if my BB push fails. 

 

Saw some supposed multi Rank 1 Unicum get farmed by a torp wall in his Belfast thinking he was safe in smoke. That guy raged hard 

[deadly_if_swallowed]

So... If you have a choice between Akatsuki and Mahan, you pick Shiratsuyu.

 

Take Mahan and lay some nice big smokescreens for your teammates They will appreciate this.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

So... If you have a choice between Akatsuki and Mahan, you pick Shiratsuyu.

 

Take Mahan and lay some nice big smokescreens for your teammates They will appreciate this.

 

 Yes, the existence of Shira means Akat isn't a choice. Nothing beats being able to out Shima the Shima at T7 

 

I see a lot of Mahan but can't say how effective they are. They were great in Season 5 but meta has shifted somewhat in recent times...

[Barkyro]

So... If you have a choice between Akatsuki and Mahan, you pick Shiratsuyu.

 

Take Mahan and lay some nice big smokescreens for your teammates They will appreciate this.

 

This ^ if the only ones available are the Akatsuki  and Mahan go Mahan and play support as best you can.

[Verence196]

The people above have pretty much made my point. Just thought I'd systematise and sum up the pros/cons:

Smoke: Mahan has the US smoke consumable, which lasts much longer than the Japanese. The ability to smoke up your team is of great value in the current ranked meta. The Akatsuki kan also smoke, but less than the Mahan.
Pick: Mahan

Torpedoes: Akatsuki has 3x3 torps with 10km range, 62kn and 76sec reload. Mahan has 3x4 (but only 2x4 on the broadside) torps with 9,2km range, 55kn and 87sec reload.
The Mahan is able to launch a greater number of torpedoes (albeit by turning the ship around), but their slow speed and low alpha damage (11k versus 17k) gives the Akatsuki a clear edge.
Pick: Akatsuki

Guns: Akatsuki has 3x2 127mm with 10,37km range, 8rpm and 6dg/sec. Mahan has 5x1 (or 4x1 in C hull) 127mm with 11,67km range, 15rpm and 15dg/sec. 
The Akatsuki has more guns and much better firing arcs, but the slow gun rotation and low range means she'll struggle to keep them on target. The Mahan will struggle to hit anything smaller than a battleship at long range, but will wreck the Akatsuki in any close range fight.
Pick: Mahan

AA: Neither the Akatsuki or the Mahan have impressive AA. However, the C-hull on the Mahan will give you the defensive fire consumable, which allows you to break up enemy air attacks against yourself and allies in range.
Pick: Mahan

Durability:
14100hp for Mahan vs 13100hp for Akatsuki. Close, but Mahan wins this one.
Pick: Mahan
 

Maneuverability:

35kn and 560 turn radius for Mahan vs 38kn and 640 turn radius for Akatsuki. This one is close, but on the smaller ranked maps I'd say turn radius trumps speed.
Pick: Mahan

Concealment: 
7,92km for Mahan vs 7,38km for Akatsuki
Both destroyers have very poor concealment. The Akatsuki's is better, but the Mahan as a gun platform which can fire over islands is not quite as reliant on hiding. Both can stealth fire torpedoes, and do so from outside radar range. Still, the Akatsuki wins this.
Pick: Akatsuki

The Akatsuki has better torpedoes, but the smoke, AA consumable and capacity for hunting lone destroyers should make the Mahan the better ship in the ranked meta. That's not to say that the Akatsuki can't make her prescence felt, though.
Overall pick: Mahan

 

[SeaWolf7]

Ok lets take it simple

Mahan has 3 x 4 torp launchers I think there the 9.2 km range ones(might be wrong anyone feel free to correct me) but only one is centrally mounted the other two are side mounted like cruisers have for example. Thus you can fire off 8 and then need to turn your ship to fire off the other 4. Mahan has 5 guns unless you went for the C hull which has 4 guns. They should load in like 3 seconds something but you are going to have a hell of a time hitting a maneuvering DD at 6 + km's but in DPM Mahan is king. Can not comment the reload on the torps so forum please help. Mahan does beat the Shyra in HP but in the current meta with a butload of 152 mm CL's it dosent matter all that much and I think the best conceal on it can get to 7.1 7.0 km(forum also help). Mahan also has really good turret traverse as well and good smoke.

Shyratsuyu has 2 x 4 torp launchers at 10 km and are decently fast but it has a 3rd consumable besides the smoke and the speed you get torpedo reload which reloads your torps in 5 seconds but then needs a cooldown so one in each 3 salvos will be a 16 torp salvo give or take. It also has 5 guns 2 x 2 and 1 x 1 of IJN 127 MM which mean they have a nice flat trajectory and can hit constantly at 9-10 KM's but the reload on the guns is horrible and so is te turret traverse speed. But here is the catch Shyra can get down to 5.8 km spotting range which rofl-stomps anything it can possibly meet and it also means it can stealth fire from ~10 kms something so your torp range is also your invisifire range and you can bait BB's into torps without being seen or bait CL's into using radar.

Thats why I would give it the best DD award for this season of ranked but its youre choice in the end.

 

Edit one I have found a Mahan video from ranked, ill also post one of the Shyra just so you get an idea (there not the best vids by far but they do get the point around:

Mahan

Shyratsuyu(this one is a bit more explanatory)

 

All the best,

Barky

 

 

Many thanks for the advise and breakdown. the replay was helpfull...

 

 

 

 

 

[ilhilh]

Neither are great but Mahan would be my pick

[SeaWolf7]

The people above have pretty much made my point. Just thought I'd systematise and sum up the pros/cons:

 

Smoke: Mahan has the US smoke consumable, which lasts much longer than the Japanese. The ability to smoke up your team is of great value in the current ranked meta. The Akatsuki kan also smoke, but less than the Mahan.

Pick: Mahan

 

Torpedoes: Akatsuki has 3x3 torps with 10km range, 62kn and 76sec reload. Mahan has 3x4 (but only 2x4 on the broadside) torps with 9,2km range, 55kn and 87sec reload.

The Mahan is able to launch a greater number of torpedoes (albeit by turning the ship around), but their slow speed and low alpha damage (11k versus 17k) gives the Akatsuki a clear edge.

Pick: Akatsuki

 

Guns: Akatsuki has 3x2 127mm with 10,37km range, 8rpm and 6dg/sec. Mahan has 5x1 (or 4x1 in C hull) 127mm with 11,67km range, 15rpm and 15dg/sec. 

The Akatsuki has more guns and much better firing arcs, but the slow gun rotation and low range means she'll struggle to keep them on target. The Mahan will struggle to hit anything smaller than a battleship at long range, but will wreck the Akatsuki in any close range fight.

Pick: Mahan

 

AA: Neither the Akatsuki or the Mahan have impressive AA. However, the C-hull on the Mahan will give you the defensive fire consumable, which allows you to break up enemy air attacks against yourself and allies in range.

Pick: Mahan

 

Durability:

14100hp for Mahan vs 13100hp for Akatsuki. Close, but Mahan wins this one.

Pick: Mahan

 

Maneuverability:

35kn and 560 turn radius for Mahan vs 38kn and 640 turn radius for Akatsuki. This one is close, but on the smaller ranked maps I'd say turn radius trumps speed.

Pick: Mahan

 

Concealment: 

7,92km for Mahan vs 7,38km for Akatsuki

Both destroyers have very poor concealment. The Akatsuki's is better, but the Mahan as a gun platform which can fire over islands is not quite as reliant on hiding. Both can stealth fire torpedoes, and do so from outside radar range. Still, the Akatsuki wins this.

Pick: Akatsuki

 

The Akatsuki has better torpedoes, but the smoke, AA consumable and capacity for hunting lone destroyers should make the Mahan the better ship in the ranked meta. That's not to say that the Akatsuki can't make her prescence felt, though.

Overall pick: Mahan

 

 

 

Again nice breakdown and realy helpfull...i will do my best to use the Mahan and its atributes to my avantage. smoke guns and defensive play i guess.

[Verence196]

 

Again nice breakdown and realy helpfull...i will do my best to use the Mahan and its atributes to my avantage. smoke guns and defensive play i guess.

 

Just not to write off the Akatsuki completely - Notser explains the role of torpedoes in countering the smoke heavy aspect of the current meta quite nicely. Yes, he's sailing the Shiratsuyu in the video (and yes, it is a much better torpedo platform than the Akatsuki), but the Akatsuki can still do serious damage with its torps. It really all depends on how comfortable you are with playing a stealth-torper vs a smoke support/knife fighter. =)

 

The first four minutes of the video are the relevant ones:

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

Just not to write off the Akatsuki completely - Notser explains the role of torpedoes in countering the smoke heavy aspect of the current meta quite nicely. Yes, he's sailing the Shiratsuyu in the video (and yes, it is a much better torpedo platform than the Akatsuki), but the Akatsuki can still do serious damage with its torps. It really all depends on how comfortable you are with playing a stealth-torper vs a smoke support/knife fighter. =)

 

The first four minutes of the video are the relevant ones:

 

 

I actually wonder if WG introduced Shira to counter this season's smoke heavy meta... But that would be too intelligent of them, right? 

[creamgravy]

Just not to write off the Akatsuki completely - 

 

Yep. All tier 7 destroyers are fantastic but Akatsuki could be the best agasint Belfast infested meta.

 

• High speed to get into/out of flanks and out of radar range. Shiratsuyu and Mahan get punished when caught out by radar, they just can't turn away fast enough. All destroyers have a 8.5km detection agasint Belfast.
• Fast reloading 10km torpedoes to overwhelm hydro cooldown. Belfast/Fiji have 18.5 seconds to react to Shiratsuyu torp walls with sonar, more than enough for a good player to get clear. Akatsuki can fire 3x3 type 8 torpedoes every 55-60 seconds with captain skills. (Akatsuki = 38 type 8 torpedoes in 240 seconds, Shiratsuyu = 37 type 90 torps in 240s with TWO consumable activations)
• Full IJN 2x3 gun layout. 4 guns at the rear combined with high speed means you can kite like a boss, set fires and brawl with other destroyers.

 

Leberecht Maass has also been surprisingly good.