do atago useless compared to kutuzov after 6.0?

[Ecanduysak]

im looking to buy a premium ship, as you guys know they added IFHE with 6.0 so kutuzov dealing much more alpha damage then before.

and with that 7.0 reload time + 19km range?

add some smoke in it...

 

i really like how atago is like a ninja with that 9.1 detect range. i only saw it 1 time with my plat (didnt reached tier 8 yet but im running out of credits) and after he realized he got alone against 2 battleship of ours he started to run. after he got out of spot all we saw was torp barrages coming from nowhere.

 

my heart says atago, but after watching flamu's this video, he made me stuck between those.

 

im also looking to tirpitz but it feels kinda overpriced. and i dont know scharhorst or belfast ,any better then atago and kutuzov when it comes to moneymaking?

 

i nearly read every review, every comparison topic but still i have no idea 

 

 

[orlathebeast]

in the current meta -long rage BBs spam and tons of DDs- the kutuzov is for sure better than the atago. i played the atago for more than 200 games and i'm quite good with it, but the kutuzov have a lot more arrows at his bow. my commander allways say "of curse, i love my atago, but if i have to schoose a premium ship between torpitz, atago or kutuzov well the kutuzov will allways be my choice"

 

first of all your camo it's good, almost as good as a chapayev. second, your fast shell it's perfect for hitting DDs from long distance. third, with the new IFHE you absolutelly wreck BBs. ho, and your fire chance are still good after all

 

so, go for the kutuzov without problem. i regret the day i bought my atago. not because it's a bad ship, but because nowdays a kutuzov can be much more usefull...

[KptStrzyga]

Atago is still very good ship, despite her tendency to beeing one shot by random salvo at the very start of the game. Good concealment, good torps at great angles and sets everything on fire every second salvo. Idk how good Kutuzov is but I woudn`t call Atago "useless". No way. 

 

Edit: my advice for you is not to buy ship for yourself but for your captains. If you have lots of Russian ships, buy Kutuzov, if you like IJN more get Atago, Tirpitz if you like playing Germans. Captain elite exp is very valuable, as much (if not more) as moneymaking potential which is quite similar in tier 8 premiums. It basically comes to "deal 100k damage in one game and you get half million credits". 

 

 

[Ecanduysak]

in the current meta -long rage BBs spam and tons of DDs- the kutuzov is for sure better than the atago. i played the atago for more than 200 games and i'm quite good with it, but the kutuzov have a lot more arrows at his bow. my commander allways say "of curse, i love my atago, but if i have to schoose a premium ship between torpitz, atago or kutuzov well the kutuzov will allways be my choice"

 

first of all your camo it's good, almost as good as a chapayev. second, your fast shell it's perfect for hitting DDs from long distance. third, with the new IFHE you absolutelly wreck BBs. ho, and your fire chance are still good after all

 

so, go for the kutuzov without problem. i regret the day i bought my atago. not because it's a bad ship, but because nowdays a kutuzov can be much more usefull...

 

 

yea thats what i heard from people. im at aoba on jap cruisers ill complete it to zao and gonna do my evil plans with it then ^^

[Ecanduysak]

Atago is still very good ship, despite her tendency to beeing one shot by random salvo at the very start of the game. Good concealment, good torps at great angles and sets everything on fire every second salvo. Idk how good Kutuzov is but I woudn`t call Atago "useless". No way. 

 

Edit: my advice for you is not to buy ship for yourself but for your captains. If you have lots of Russian ships, buy Kutuzov, if you like IJN more get Atago, Tirpitz if you like playing Germans. Captain elite exp is very valuable, as much (if not more) as moneymaking potential which is quite similar in tier 8 premiums. It basically comes to "deal 100k damage in one game and you get half million credits". 

 

 

 

well atago really charms me but i really dont understand how this ship has 86k average max damage on stats?

 

 

here is kutuzov

 

 

123K with 152mm guns?

 

[KptStrzyga]

 

well atago really charms me but i really dont understand how this ship has 86k average max damage on stats?

Atago isn`t the ship it was when it was released. She got a lot of buffs since then. And Yoshi_EU also isn`t your average player from random battles.

 

Something you should know before you buy premium: on premium ship you can use any captain from this ships nationality without retraining, so if you are grinding IJN cruiser line you don`t need captain for Atago, just sail her with Aoba captain. And more: when you are retraining captain for credits from one ship to another and most of his perks are not working or working on 50%  it doesn`t apply to premium ship, captain is always at 100% on premium ship. Consider this, because if you buy Atago you`ll end up with 19 point Japanese captain eventually. If you get Kutuzov you`ll get 19 points Russian. It`s one factor to think about. 

[Ecanduysak]

Atago isn`t the ship it was when it was released. She got a lot of buffs since then. And Yoshi_EU also isn`t your average player from random battles.

 

Something you should know before you buy premium: on premium ship you can use any captain from this ships nationality without retraining, so if you are grinding IJN cruiser line you don`t need captain for Atago, just sail her with Aoba captain. And more: when you are retraining captain for credits from one ship to another and most of his perks are not working or working on 50%  it doesn`t apply to premium ship, captain is always at 100% on premium ship. Consider this, because if you buy Atago you`ll end up with 19 point Japanese captain eventually. If you get Kutuzov you`ll get 19 points Russian. It`s one factor to think about. 

 

dude i played world of tanks for more then 5 years. i know how premium vehicles working lol.

my biggest mistake was buying kv5 bu that wasnt my fault anyway. i lost type 59 with like 30 minutes...

 

and yes yoshi isnt the average random battle player but that charts showing us there is 40k max average damage difference between kuzutov and atago. so player who is good at kuzutov dealing more damage then a player who is good at atago.

basicly showing what those ships capable of?

 

Edit: when it comes to captain training ijn would better for me

[LilJumpa]

Useless?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. These ships are as different as they can be.

 

So unless you want to buy a T8 premium Cruiser for clanbattles, where the tactical and team abilities of the MK surpass the ones of the Atago and therefore will be picked atm, you should ask yourself what you want in a ship and what your playstyle is.

[kfa]

LilJumpa is right you cant really compare the 2 ships its like comparing the Yamato with the Gearing...

Kutuzov is only better in team battles and not because of the IFHE but the AA. And still even in clanwars there is usually 1 or sometimes even 2 Atagos.

 

For me personally Atago all the way, that camo + those torps are excellent and a fleeing zigzagging Atago is one of the most deadliest ships even against T10. Anti-air is an issue but you can compensate with def AA.

Permanent low concealment > smoke.

 

Moneymakingwise it is always strictly connected to the tier, a T7 will never earn the same as a T8, nor any T8 as a Missuori.

[Ecanduysak]

Useless?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. These ships are as different as they can be.

 

So unless you want to buy a T8 premium Cruiser for clanbattles, where the tactical and team abilities of the MK surpass the ones of the Atago and therefore will be picked atm, you should ask yourself what you want in a ship and what your playstyle is.

I believe useless ıs a insult word. What im trying to mean is kutuzov seems somewhat superior to atago when ıt comes to doing damage etc. And Far as ı know from wot more damage more Credits?

And they are at similar price...

 

About playstyle kuzutov kind a reminds me cleveland.

I would olay both but ı have to choose 1 lol

 

[KptStrzyga]

 And Far as ı know from wot more damage more Credits?

 

No. For killing full hp battleship you get same exp and credits as for killing full hp destroyer of same tier. You can earn more dealing 30k damage to DDs than if you deal 150k damage to battleship. 

It`s % of ships hp that counts. 

[Ecanduysak]

LilJumpa is right you cant really compare the 2 ships its like comparing the Yamato with the Gearing...

Kutuzov is only better in team battles and not because of the IFHE but the AA. And still even in clanwars there is usually 1 or sometimes even 2 Atagos.

 

For me personally Atago all the way, that camo + those torps are excellent and a fleeing zigzagging Atago is one of the most deadliest ships even against T10. Anti-air is an issue but you can compensate with def AA.

Permanent low concealment > smoke.

 

Moneymakingwise it is always strictly connected to the tier, a T7 will never earn the same as a T8, nor any T8 as a Missuori.

 

+ hp regen and better armor with angling

[Ecanduysak]

No. For killing full hp battleship you get same exp and credits as for killing full hp destroyer of same tier. You can earn more dealing 30k damage to DDs than if you deal 150k damage to battleship. 

It`s % of ships hp that counts. 

Ah ı see

[eliastion]

 

well atago really charms me but i really dont understand how this ship has 86k average max damage on stats?

(...)

here is kutuzov

(...)

123K with 152mm guns?

(...)

 

Perhaps I can give you an explanation. Average damage might be misleading. Kutuzov has great alpha DPM and is a flamethrower. Her primary targets are BBs that she sets on fire left and right. Atago can do that too but she's worse at that - her damage might be more shifted towards cruisers and DDs, making an apparent huge difference between damage dealt by great Kutuzov and great Atago players.

At least that would be my guess.

Basically, same reason currently CVs tend to have so much damage - their main DMG-suppliers are BBs: capable of tanking A LOT of damage while, at the same time, less capable in evasive maneuvers.

[rage1750]

I own both; both are good but they are different animals, as someone else said apples and oranges.  

 

Bought the Atago around a year ago, played her a few times, its a good ship and I have had some good games in her.  No regrets.

 

Bought the Kutzuov today, I have played 3-4 games in her and she is an absolute gem.  My first game in her 3 kills (2DDs and a low HP tirpitz) 135k damage, didn't think that was too shabby.   

 

Horses for courses, personally even after a few games I would go Kutzuzov but that is due to my preferences and playstyle. 

[Ecanduysak]

 

allright i just tested kutuzov for 1 match on my friends account.

Good RoF

Velocity is amazing (after playing cleveland i loved it)

Smoke is good you just sitting there and hammering people

range is amazing

 

what i didnt liked:

since its a CL i saw my health drain from 32k to 3k thanks by a t8 BB with 1 salvo, but that was my fault i go rogue and got seperated away from my team a bit. 

HE damage low AP damage meh... totally need IFHE

 

probably gonna buy kutuzov i guess

 

 

[Ecanduysak]

I own both; both are good but they are different animals, as someone else said apples and oranges.  

 

Bought the Atago around a year ago, played her a few times, its a good ship and I have had some good games in her.  No regrets.

 

Bought the Kutzuov today, I have played 3-4 games in her and she is an absolute gem.  My first game in her 3 kills (2DDs and a low HP tirpitz) 135k damage, didn't think that was too shabby.   

 

Horses for courses, personally even after a few games I would go Kutzuzov but that is due to my preferences and playstyle. 

 

well atago isnt a bad ship but as i read from people i can do same things with zao too. so its not that unique after this point...

 

i totally agree on orange apple example, ships are different class with different gameplay styles.

 

well gonna buy one of them tomorrow if i cant choose again ill just flip a coin, eyh! 

 

edit:

 

Thank you for all of you guys for help and wasting time with a picky fella like me 

[Myrmix]

The only thing, Atago got going for her was the heal.

Kutuzov has exceptional AA, insane range,very good fire chance, smoke and fast reload.

Thanks to IFHE she now can penetrate reliably with 5k volleys at max range (because HE doesn't loose pen).

It's not fun anymore to play battleship. I don't mind fires or taking damage, but HE is now so skillless (hit anywhere to do reliable damage)... with AP you have to get very lucky to hit citadels especially with BB-dispersion.

Don't forget HE-pen also counts as penetration and can only be repaired for 10% of done damage.

Soon the cruisers will have to get braver, because BBs just can't tank anymore.

 

[LilJumpa]

The only thing, Atago got going for her was the heal.

Kutuzov has exceptional AA, insane range,very good fire chance, smoke and fast reload.

Thanks to IFHE she now can penetrate reliably with 5k volleys at max range (because HE doesn't loose pen).

It's not fun anymore to play battleship. I don't mind fires or taking damage, but HE is now so skillless (hit anywhere to do reliable damage)... with AP you have to get very lucky to hit citadels especially with BB-dispersion.

Don't forget HE-pen also counts as penetration and can only be repaired for 10% of done damage.

Soon the cruisers will have to get braver, because BBs just can't tank anymore.

 

 

*slowclap*

 

There are wrong facts in every single line you posted. Thats an achievement.

 

Edit: 54% BB player.... nevermind

 

[Riggerby]

Gotta be Kutuzov, With HEAP ships like her have just become monsters.

[Ecanduysak]

 

*slowclap*

 

There are wrong facts in every single line you posted. Thats an achievement.

 

Edit: 54% BB player.... nevermind

 

 

why?, please explain?

[ollonborre]

 

why?, please explain?

 

Kutuzov has better AA, this is true.

But IFHE has not made 203 HE useless. infact it can still hurt a ton and you don't have to give up any firechance in order to both do reliable HE damage and start fires.

As for IFHE only beeing 10% repairable, that is just wrong. Citadels can only be 10% healed. Any armor penetrating hit can be healed up to 50%, and fires, overpens, and flooding can be 100% healed. Not sure hwere HE fits into this, but it certainly aint a low 10%.

And BB's still retain the highest overall HP, armor and have at most 5 repair partys making them by far the tankiest ship class ingame. Nothing can change this.

 

And saying that the Atago "only" has the heal going for it is laughable. Because beeing one of two cruisers that have heals at tier 8 is strong as it is, not to mention great stealth, good torp angles, powerful main guns and in general only have slow turret traverse and a big citadel as its weakness.

[ScratxNeko]

 

And saying that the Atago "only" has the heal going for it is laughable. Because beeing one of two cruisers that have heals at tier 8 is strong as it is, not to mention great stealth, good long range hard hitting torp angles, powerful main guns and high speed and in general only have slow turret traverse and a big citadel and useless AA as its weakness.

 

Fixed that for you. Atago's turret traverse is pretty good. The turret layout, on the other hand, is meh. But since turrets traverse rather fast (especially if you tack on Expert Marksmanship) it's not a hindrance.

[LilJumpa]

why?, please explain?

 

ollonborre already explained most of it.

In addition:

- IFHE buffs the penetration value of the Kutu HE shells so it now can damage 32mm plating, which adds sections of T8+ BBs and high tier Cruisers where the shells now do 30% damage instead of 0 (203mm shells can already damage those areas without IFHE)

- 5k volleys are possible and happen on undamaged ships, but once saturation kicks in on some sections that damage is halved and 2k volleys are the norm (Izumo is an exception, she is very vulnerable to HE because of the deck plating)

- High Tier BBs (T9/10) have certain parts of the ship which are 32mm so you actually have to know this and where those sections are and aim at them to be very effective. Hitting a BB 2000 times in the superstructure with HE will not kill it without fires, because the superstructure will be saturated after a while and take no more damage.

 

 

[Xmen]

Kutuzov one trick poney especially good for team battle .

 

Atago more fun in random

 

both are pretty good