What to do in this situation

[gekkehenkie50]

I have a question: When you are in any ship, be that a DD, BB or CA (CVs excluded in this case), what do you do when you meet the entire enemy fleet? This seems to happen to me alot; In Iowa, I often suddenly get spotted, and then the shells just start pouring in, my team wisely decides to turn around and run, but because I am being focused, and it is tier IX, I have no chance of retreat, except perhaps backing up... I have already made a post about the Iowa and how bad I am in her, but I noticed that this problem is not specific to her... Come to think of it, it can happen to any ship. I just played a game in Akizuki, and together with a fletcher we just cleared a headland, and bam, 1 ship... 2...3...5...7...9 it was at that point that I got the picture and steamed in the other direction, however; the enemy fleet deployed radar... I think it was the chapayev... so what do you do in a DD when radar is on and you still need to run 3km to get out of its AOE? I just did a wiggle wiggle shake and prayed :S. I survived with 2K hp left, the fletcher didnt get away... so, now crippled I tried to flank around the enemy and let them pass me by... they just turned on radar again and surrounded me. My questions are:

1. What can you do if you find yourself spotted, out in the open, in front of the entire enemy fleet?
2. Is there any counter against radar for a DD?

[ColonelPete]

Before you go anywhere, think about how to get away from there.

When you move towards islands, you can turn around in cover.

[gekkehenkie50]

Well, that's all fine and dandy, but I have to cross open water sometimes, and I am not really the BB that likes to sit behind the team, I see tanking as my #1 priority. As for Akizuki, well, if I just stay behind an island all game I cant be thta aggressive, only defensive.

[ColonelPete]

There should always be an island at the other side of the open water.

[thepuma2012]

Don t go with one or two ships to an aeria.  Stay with at least about half a team (say 7 ships)  so that the group can help eachother.

 

So just don t go alone,  don t go to far off a group of allies. And when you are seen, show only the smallest of your ship. No broadsides untill you are safe.

[Jaylah]

 

Use the + and - buttons on your keyboard to make the map bigger. Then look on the map while you playing to improve your positioning. If yo get cut off the rest of the team and are attacked by multiple ships you need to decide if its worth it turning around and showing broadside and then run or just showing the front side of the ship and sailing backwards. But all this is very basic knowledge that people should have learned on lower lvls. What you describe is like playing a tier 9 BB with tier 4 skills.

 

 

[Jaylah]

There is a difference between being aggressive and not being aware of your surrounding.  Being aggressive with support wins games, do that without support and you will get killed easily.

[gekkehenkie50]

Well, here are the 2 examples from the original post: The first one is in Iowa, the second in Akizuki.

[Gnirf]

One thing is to maybe hold your fire sometimes to return to stealth or do not open fire at all before you are a little more aware of the enemy are elsewhere, if your teammates have spotted other parts of the fleet.

Depends on your type of ship but I am amazed to see how many stealthy DDs open fire in front of the whole fleet. If you are a DD use your torps be careful with guns in the beginning if you are in a unsure situation. Your job is then to provide intellegence for your team and stay alive at least when you are playing IJN DDs. But even low tier DDs of other nations have fairly low concealment..

 

Since you are in T9 you know this but as is the Newcomers section I am more adressing newcomers not you.

[Legend1466]

Just hide close to island and make a commando attack like a pro. The whole team sacrificies like a noob. Remember when you musn't be first to be spotted? Let others be spotted and problem solved.

[Jayuus]

I'm not sure newcomers forum is the best place to post a problem you have with a tier 9 ship. General forum might get more feedback.

[Kuningas_Arthur]

If you suddenly find yourself surrounded by the whole enemy fleet and you are alone it means you made your mistake two minutes earlier. Even if you are a top tier 9 BB you are not invincible and tanking when you have no support is not tanking, it's throwing your ship away for nothing. In a DD you should easily be able to escape any situation, you can practically only get spotted by enemy DDs so if you are a gunboat DD just sink them and gtfo, and if you are a Jap DD you should have the better concealment so pop smoke, turn tail and run.

[gekkehenkie50]

If you suddenly find yourself surrounded by the whole enemy fleet and you are alone it means you made your mistake two minutes earlier. Even if you are a top tier 9 BB you are not invincible and tanking when you have no support is not tanking, it's throwing your ship away for nothing. In a DD you should easily be able to escape any situation, you can practically only get spotted by enemy DDs so if you are a gunboat DD just sink them and gtfo, and if you are a Jap DD you should have the better concealment so pop smoke, turn tail and run.

 

So how do I avoid making that mistake? I just seem to find the enemy fleet all of a sudden, how do you guys predict where they will pop-up?

As for always being able to run away in DDs, I did mention that they activated radar, giving multiple tier X cruisers around 30 seconds +- to shoot me up.

[Kuningas_Arthur]

 

So how do I avoid making that mistake? I just seem to find the enemy fleet all of a sudden, how do you guys predict where they will pop-up?

As for always being able to run away in DDs, I did mention that they activated radar, giving multiple tier X cruisers around 30 seconds +- to shoot me up.

 

I'll admit I've been caught in radar with my pants down more than once in my DDs and I'm still learning how to cope with that and learning which ships even have it so I know who to watch out for..  

 

But as far as BBs go, the moment you realize your team isn't coming with you slow down and turn away, or at least take a heading that'll allow you to escape without doing another full 180. Also keep an eye for where your own DDs are, and what areas they should spot enemies from. If they are not spotting anything, that must mean all enemy ships are somewhere else, and the longer enemies remain unspotted elsewhere the possibility that at least a part of them will pop up right in front of you is gradually increasing all the time. And when you do get spotted you can use the minimap rings to estimate the enemy location quite accurately at the start, because you know where they spawned at the start and you know they must have come from that direction and are now inside your detection range. There's no shame in leaving one flank alone if the alternative is to push it alone and die, and more often than not you will have the range to at least give the enemy something to think about even if you aren't actually pushing into a cap.

[gekkehenkie50]

 

I'll admit I've been caught in radar with my pants down more than once in my DDs and I'm still learning how to cope with that and learning which ships even have it so I know who to watch out for..  

 

But as far as BBs go, the moment you realize your team isn't coming with you slow down and turn away, or at least take a heading that'll allow you to escape without doing another full 180. Also keep an eye for where your own DDs are, and what areas they should spot enemies from. If they are not spotting anything, that must mean all enemy ships are somewhere else, and the longer enemies remain unspotted elsewhere the possibility that at least a part of them will pop up right in front of you is gradually increasing all the time. And when you do get spotted you can use the minimap rings to estimate the enemy location quite accurately at the start, because you know where they spawned at the start and you know they must have come from that direction and are now inside your detection range. There's no shame in leaving one flank alone if the alternative is to push it alone and die, and more often than not you will have the range to at least give the enemy something to think about even if you aren't actually pushing into a cap.

 

Yeah, I think most of us are still adapting to radar in our DDs (especially as this is only my second (third if you count the CBT) tier 8 DD)

 

As for Battleship gameplay, it was not a case of me going alone, or with a small force. Infact, only 2 ships were not within 7km of me: Our carrier, and an IJN DD who was going to stall the enemy advance, should they pop up on the other side of the map. I was at the head of the column of cruisers and battleships, with the destroyers pathfinding infront of me, when, almost instantaneously, a cruiser reported he had been spotted. He instantly turned away, and then all the cruisers followed suit. I was spotted around the same time as the cruiser, and saw the number going up next to my situational awareness... 1,2,4,6,7,9... I knew I couldn't afford to turn, but all the ships behind me were running, even the Battleships, either by guessing or by knowing how many people were aiming at me, started turning back. I was now attracting the full attention of the enemy HE fire-brigade, and I had a choice: turn broadside, and hope to endure the hit, and make it into cover behind a small island infront of me, or sail full speed and hope to deal some more damage. In a tier 7- game I would charge, because, that's just fun. But at tier 7+ (Seven included), I know that people prefer a more competitive playstyle, so I decided to take the tactical risk. I got deleted; it seems Yamato 360mm AP does alot of damage on broadside battleships

So I'm not really asking for "Stick with your team or be punished advice", although I do respect the fact that you guys probbably see some potato BB player on the forums in me (which I still am in some parts), but for what to do when you have the choice, or how to make sure you don't have to make that choice.

Thanks for all the replies, hope you understand that, all though my question might seem utter noobism to you, it's my first tier IX battleship (first tier IX ship at all infact) and I only have 1808 battles played at the moment.

[Kuningas_Arthur]

Well, sometimes things just happen that are out of our control, guess that was one of those situations.. 

 

[iiDutchy]

Always when going somewhere , no matter the ship type or tier.

Always have an exit strategy 

[_Flyto_]

The flippant-but-true answer as to what you do in that situation is "sink, usually".

 

The trick is not to *get* into that situation. Don't scout with an Iowa, if you can avoid it ;-)

[EsaTuunanen]

So how do I avoid making that mistake? I just seem to find the enemy fleet all of a sudden, how do you guys predict where they will pop-up?

As for always being able to run away in DDs, I did mention that they activated radar, giving multiple tier X cruisers around 30 seconds +- to shoot me up.

So you just kept agressively pushing in toward enemy without knowledge of their position (also islands blocking line of sight) or what ships enemy might have on that area.

Am I right?

 

Instead of "Nothing visible, everything must be good" you should always think "What are the possible worst case scenarios?" which can happen.

And of course also think about what likely enemies are going to try.

Then plan route to minimize risks of getting surprised in bad spot/maximize escape chances in case of that "excrement hitting the fan".

Until having enemy team's location known or then good spotting support from other ships/planes trying to maintain good visiblity to possible approach path of enemy is good strategy.

 

Even without facing radar ships that planning ahead is only way to consistently avoid being crippled/sinked fast.

Against radar ships best thing would be having BB with big guns following you to make sure enemy cruisers have also other things to ponder about than your location.

[Ferry_25]

In both your examples you overextended and could have taken cover behind the islands. Not to stay camping there for the entire match but buy your time until the heat's wearing off. Also like elsewhere stated: always think ahead for your exit strategy. and expect the unexpected: torps/ shells fired at you can circle and go through islands, enemies have instant reloads and to be on the safe side: your citadel is in the area where your detection ring goes. All until proven otherwise. That way you'll far less prone to be surprised. Furthermore: detected = incoming, again until proven otherwise. Now we've all been in that situation where you're being caught with your pants down. Usually I try to make the most of it: if I can't flee, just rush in and try to take as many with me as possible...

[DexterManley]

If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!

 

[Ferry_25]

Spaniard, Spaniard, Spaniard!!!

 

[Kuningas_Arthur]

Maximus! Maximus the merciful!

[Agantas]

 

So how do I avoid making that mistake? I just seem to find the enemy fleet all of a sudden, how do you guys predict where they will pop-up?

As for always being able to run away in DDs, I did mention that they activated radar, giving multiple tier X cruisers around 30 seconds +- to shoot me up.

 

What does your team have and what does their team have? What happens if your team pushes in and tries to brawl with the enemy? Where are the remaining enemy ships that you don't see in the scene?

[ThinderChief]

I have a question: When you are in any ship, be that a DD, BB or CA (CVs excluded in this case), what do you do when you meet the entire enemy fleet? This seems to happen to me alot; In Iowa, I often suddenly get spotted, and then the shells just start pouring in, my team wisely decides to turn around and run, but because I am being focused, and it is tier IX, I have no chance of retreat, except perhaps backing up... I have already made a post about the Iowa and how bad I am in her, but I noticed that this problem is not specific to her... Come to think of it, it can happen to any ship. I just played a game in Akizuki, and together with a fletcher we just cleared a headland, and bam, 1 ship... 2...3...5...7...9 it was at that point that I got the picture and steamed in the other direction, however; the enemy fleet deployed radar... I think it was the chapayev... so what do you do in a DD when radar is on and you still need to run 3km to get out of its AOE? I just did a wiggle wiggle shake and prayed :S. I survived with 2K hp left, the fletcher didnt get away... so, now crippled I tried to flank around the enemy and let them pass me by... they just turned on radar again and surrounded me. My questions are:

1. What can you do if you find yourself spotted, out in the open, in front of the entire enemy fleet?
2. Is there any counter against radar for a DD?

 

1)

You can't play all types of ships the same way, but one thing is granted with every kind, your detectability range increases with firing for 20 seconds, so you have the options to:

 

a) Stop firing and figure out which of adversary you are in spotting range and turn back, away from the closest ship/spotter and make use of your detectability range, the issue will be the same with radars if you play DDs, you need to keep your targets between those two circles, detectability range and max firing range, that's your kill zone, even safer using torps, for this purpose, the new Radio Position Finding skill can work for you.

 

b) Shelter yourself with the help of the nearest island but this means you need to stay static and can easily get flanked.

 

c) Turn away and pop your smoke in trail so that your precise direction and position are hidden for a while, if the shooters are in their smoke, while turning, fire all torps you can in their latest position spot plus a bit left and right, it will at least distract them when they see them coming and in many case you'll score kills on dangerous targets.

 

 

2)

a) I would not recommend popping smoke and staying in it when you play vs hydro/radar equipped ships, they will spot you and being static you'll become a seating duck, instead, making a hard to hit target of yourself will be a lot more efficient, plus all those firing at you are also giving their position away at longer ranges than if they were not firing.

 

The reason is simple, unless you're talking other DD, your detectability range is smaller than that of the spotter and often smaller than their radar range. So you'll spot them before they spot you unless they're in their smoke and already use their radar.

 

b) In every case, if you're in a gun fight with a ship of the same type and he get support and you don't, it's a team issue, not only yours, your team mates should be able to provide with direct fire support, (unless you chose to go on your own and made it impossible for them to provide), often enough, the rest of the team are static, hiding behind islands and does not have your shooters in their line of fire, so it's time to withdraw, get closer to your team mates IF you have time to do so. 

 

c) When you play vs radars, you do not have the luxury of using your smoke as coccon, so you have to adjust/adapt your play style consequently and keep on the move, spot, torp, run, stay or get out ASAP of detectability range be it visual or radar, it makes no difference, the tactic to counter this is the same, best to have long range torps in this case, which will give you a larger kill zone, so keep your engine boost for escaping.

 

It's good to have good guns on DDs, but you can't fight a Belfast from inside a smoke bubble and win even if you can spot it which is near impossible once you're in your own smoke, if no one is spotting him for you, on the other hand, a radar equipped ship in a smoke bubble have the same issue than you but worst, a Cruiser even light and powerfull will always have more trouble moving from idle to avoid torps, so torp the smoke, hit and run, get out of detection range ASAP using engine boost.

 

Use this yo-yo tactic, getting to spotting range torp and run, avoid using your smoke unless you want to hide your escape or have no other choice, make sure people give you support and WILL shoot at the ship you spot, there is no point in spotting loads of targets for camping sissies who will not take advantage and let you get killed, so make sure you'll get support, check your map.  

 

>>>>>>>>

 

 Belfast is a Tier VII premium British cruiser of the same class as the tech tree Tier VIII Edinburgh, but does not carry any torpedoes. However, she has the ability to mount the Smoke Generator, Hydroacoustic Search, and Surveillance Radar consumables simultaneously, as well as having high explosive rounds available.

 

A player in my team comments: "They have 2 radars. Just kill them in their play to win ships".

"Play to win" i didn't say but my taught exactly. You chose your ship, its upgrades, Commander's skills for a play style. Here i'm playing my second best ship (best kill ratio i think being my Dunkerque).

 

I know those guys are going to rush on G2 to set their smoke behind the island and invisi-HE-spam everything that comes to range, PLUS, i CANT use my smoke (I avoid smoke bubble as much as possible as well), so, it's engine boost and torp run banzai style at 18.28, note than for a brief moment, only one of those Cruisers was visible, making it near impossible for my team mates to support me, as we were facing 3 ships poping smoke and two equipped with radar.

 

 

@16.42 two of the campers are goners, the game is a win, a few mn later, I got ambushed by a DD defending his side, spotting me to get shot by the remaining BBs on g2, after a few more torpedo hits and only one fire, so no happy ending but a dynamic game and a win, i'm considering using the "Demolition expert" skill for my DD, I hate setting fires but it's a DD and I have little armour or penetration power to compensate, I got to finish them. 

 

 

 

The whole point being, none of my team mates did really camp (look where my support are when I get out of detection range, only one BB is behind an island and he was manoeuvring, not staying put), we were against radar-equipped, smoke-loving Cruisers and a DD, on which in fact, the rest of their team relied upon.

 

As early as the Cruisers were gone, the dynamic of the game turned in our favour, our BBs pushed south and other ships did their jobs including briefly defending our base from a daring DDs.