IJN DD's obsolete. The message is sinking in...

[Ferry_25]

The 1 strength of these DD's was (past tense) stealth. Just found out the hard way the US DD's have better stealth alltogether. Got wrecked in my Shima by a lousy Benson.... What am I supposed to do with those Warspite turrets in a knife fight?! Only Gearing equals the Shima concealment. I guess it's back to the torpedo soup tactic for me....

[ColonelPete]

You give up quickly...

[Altsak]

Was that you in the C cap? Don't remember the map name. But it was a one way fight...

 

[creamgravy]

Load Expert Marksman hack.

[Dams_77]

Load Expert Marksman hack.

 

Maybe you meant "another patch" via captain skills? I used to chose BFT - EM - and AFT before 0.6.0 on kagero, but do you seriously think it's still viable on shima? I considered I had to choose RPF on it for obvious reasons (The only ship on which I have it, not on my USN or soviet DDs ...). And I think that indeed their turrets traverse is even worse than their rate of fire. No need to talk about torps (detection range or even reload times) or concealment versus USN DD, just a joke.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

Load Expert Marksman hack.

 

 Even EM isn't going to get you anywhere near USN DD auto turrets. Those things turn insanely fast and take away the need for any sort of forward planning.

 

I've tried playing IJN DDs recently. Had a great game in my Hatsu, was the only DD and did a lot of spotting and calling but very little damage. I probably did more to win than most but finished bottom half... Thing is I'd like to say i played as intended but got no reward for it.

[AnotherDuck]

I've tried playing IJN DDs recently. Had a great game in my Hatsu, was the only DD and did a lot of spotting and calling but very little damage. I probably did more to win than most but finished bottom half... Thing is I'd like to say i played as intended but got no reward for it.

 

Yeah, playing like that doesn't give a whole lot of rewards. You really need to hit some torps to get a decent reward. Capping helps a bit, but not as much as it used to.

 

That said, I enjoy playing Shiratsuyu a lot. Since the IJN DD line split, I've not had captains for several of my previously frequently played ships (like Kagero), so I've not gotten to play them a lot, but I still enjoy what I can play.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

Yeah, playing like that doesn't give a whole lot of rewards. You really need to hit some torps to get a decent reward. Capping helps a bit, but not as much as it used to.

 

That said, I enjoy playing Shiratsuyu a lot. Since the IJN DD line split, I've not had captains for several of my previously frequently played ships (like Kagero), so I've not gotten to play them a lot, but I still enjoy what I can play.

 

In that particular game I had to play that way as if I died my team would have had no eyes.

 

Still sucks that there is no reward for it...

 

I'll be playing more IJN DDs but not in a rush.

[SaxonHoliday]

I still enjoy my Shimakaze, but honestly... I just finished the grind for Fletcher today (don't have the credits to buy her yet, though), and that's what I'll probably end up sticking with. Sure, IJN DDs at the high tiers have those gloriously fast 76kn torpedoes, but with RPF now being a thing alongside the already pretty debilitating radar and sonar, dipping in close enough to use them is often suicidal. The Benson, despite being 2 tiers lower, has often proven that she is much more of a beast than any of the IJN DDs - her torpedoes being slow is pretty much her only disadvantage compared to them. And even that doesn't matter that often, considering that their detection range is lower to compensate... and we don't even have to talk about the guns.

 

In the end, it's just sad how much better USN DDs are than the IJN ones at basically everything save torpedoes... and even then, Fletcher has better range than Yuugumo and Shimakaze with their F3 torpedoes, making her safer, and the only thing she gives up for it is a little bit of damage and some torpedo speed (but torpedo detection range is also lower to compensate). And that's not even mentioning RPF - it was a huge indirect nerf to IJN DDs, because while the skill doesn't directly attack Japanese destroyers, it does make stealthy torpedoboating much harder - which is basically the only thing the IJN line of destroyers can do. USN DDs on the other hand have gunboating to fall back on.

 

I still enjoy playing Shimakaze on occasion, but if I actually want to contribute something to my team and/or do something to help my team win, I'd rather bring out Benson or Fletcher any day.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I still enjoy my Shimakaze, but honestly... I just finished the grind for Fletcher today (don't have the credits to buy her yet, though), and that's what I'll probably end up sticking with. Sure, IJN DDs at the high tiers have those gloriously fast 76kn torpedoes, but with RPF now being a thing alongside the already pretty debilitating radar and sonar, dipping in close enough to use them is often suicidal. The Benson, despite being 2 tiers lower, has often proven that she is much more of a beast than any of the IJN DDs - her torpedoes being slow is pretty much her only disadvantage compared to them. And even that doesn't matter that often, considering that their detection range is lower to compensate... and we don't even have to talk about the guns.

 

In the end, it's just sad how much better USN DDs are than the IJN ones at basically everything save torpedoes... and even then, Fletcher has better range than Yuugumo and Shimakaze with their F3 torpedoes, making her safer, and the only thing she gives up for it is a little bit of damage and some torpedo speed (but torpedo detection range is also lower to compensate). And that's not even mentioning RPF - it was a huge indirect nerf to IJN DDs, because while the skill doesn't directly attack Japanese destroyers, it does make stealthy torpedoboating much harder - which is basically the only thing the IJN line of destroyers can do. USN DDs on the other hand have gunboating to fall back on.

 

I still enjoy playing Shimakaze on occasion, but if I actually want to contribute something to my team and/or do something to help my team win, I'd rather bring out Benson or Fletcher any day.

 

I recently re-thought how I play Fletcher and I'm basically getting far better results. E.g not using it as a gunboat but as a torp boat with excellent self defence guns. 

 

The ships that the IJN DDs should probably have been 

[SaxonHoliday]

 

I recently re-thought how I play Fletcher and I'm basically getting far better results. E.g not using it as a gunboat but as a torp boat with excellent self defence guns. 

 

The ships that the IJN DDs should probably have been 

Pretty much that. USN DDs do suffer from the "rainbow" shell arcs, so firing at something further away than 6-7km is generally a waste of time. Putting down a rain of fire on a BB from smoke is nice, but playing stealthy and torping is very, very viable on the Fletcher and the Gearing, and unlike IJN DDs, they can actually deal with things that spot them. They'll win close-range gunnery duels against most non-Russian destroyers (and even then, it might be close), and thanks to Defensive Fire, you don't have to worry too much about carrier attacks, either.

 

Yuugumo and Shimakaze do have those glorious 76kn torps, but the increasing amount of things like radar, RPF and the like is making it far too dangerous to dip into range to actually use them. It's sad that Fletcher and Gearing do everything Yuugumo and Shimakaze do except better.

[AnotherDuck]

I recently re-thought how I play Fletcher and I'm basically getting far better results. E.g not using it as a gunboat but as a torp boat with excellent self defence guns.

 

I often play like that in the beginning of the match, especially while capping. More gunboat later on, when there are fewer potential guns aiming my way. If I find an enemy destroyer and I have an advantage of some kind (IJN DD, support, HP, etc.), however, it's hunting time.

[_KEANO_]

Sold my Shimakze, bought gearing. Haven't looked back

[Spellfire40]

The 1 strength of these DD's was (past tense) stealth. Just found out the hard way the US DD's have better stealth alltogether. Got wrecked in my Shima by a lousy Benson.... What am I supposed to do with those Warspite turrets in a knife fight?! Only Gearing equals the Shima concealment. I guess it's back to the torpedo soup tactic for me....

Benson is around 5.9? Shima is in the same range has 15 torps that are fast and decent guns at least vs a T8.  Dont see the Problem. She is the one IJN DD that is still quite good especally with Adrenalin rush when damaged.

[Akula971]

I ditched the 8km torpedoes on the Shimakaze and went back to the 12Km ones, play a lot more cautiously, as Radar, Sonar, RPF, and aircraft means that getting spotted close in, is a death sentence. Its not fun to play, Fire torpedoes, wait a minute and half before doing some again, boring! and without a premium account, its so easy to make a loss on a win!  So screw you WG, tiers 9 and 10 can suck it.

[Dams_77]

Benson is around 5.9? Shima is in the same range has 15 torps that are fast and decent guns at least vs a T8.  Dont see the Problem. She is the one IJN DD that is still quite good especally with Adrenalin rush when damaged.

 

There is no  problem at all, they are perfect

[Marducas91]

I agree with the OP.
I love my shima to bits and never actually played an high tier USN DD ( got the farragut from the missions and quite like it) but lets talk about the main features of those lines
IJN DDs :

1. good torps with good range and damage (12km ones) or crazy speed/low distance( 8km) and both with bad detectability ( 1.9 km is not really good, had kurfurst dodging those )
2. exellent stealth
3. good alphas guns and AR helps a lot with the reload but the turret rotation ( yes, even with the perks) makes unespected enemyes hard to engage with your full gun potential.
4.  AA...nothing to talk about here really, if a carrier wants u there is nothing you can do
5. maneuvrability is good: pretty fast and with the engine boost but if u try to keep dodging things your speed will drop immensly

USN DDs:

1. good torps, not as hard hitting or as many as the IJN ones but with a lower detection and faster reload and even better range
2. exellent stealth as well, just a couple of hundred meters worse and considering the time it takes the game to show the enemy on screen ( at least on my low end scale pc) those meters do not really count for much
3. machinegun like guns, lightining fast turret rotations, lazy arcs...u can also stealthfire
4. AA, having that consumable speaks for itself
5. best smoke in the game
6. maneuvraility: not as fast as the IJN ones but exellent dogfighters

soo, thinking of those things I listed before I specked my shima with rpf but just to plan myself an escape rout in case of contact and to know where I should point all my guns in advance just to have all my firepower ready if I really need to use it. I still have good games in my shima where I dev strike some BBaby not paing attenction but I kinda feel like I could have done even better in those games if I were using a USN dd.

ok I agree that those 2 lines have different playstyles but if the USN one can pretty much do the same things that the IJN ones is supposed to do ( and some even better) which is the point of the IJN DDs? I think WG has to think a bit on this

those are my ideas, have fun guys

Cheers, Marducas91

 

P.S english is not my first language so if there are any grammatical error pls forgive me ;P

[Aragathor]

As a new player I must say that from all of the available <T5 DDs (didn't go beyond that yet), the Japanese line is the least fun to play with for me. In fact I sold my Isokaze after giving it a last chance today.

Playing them is like pulling teeth, not really something I like to do in my spare time. I'm not even interested in grinding them to see if it gets better, the other lines are just more interesting to play.

[too_tall]

Seem to be fine for me 

 

[resabed]

Seem to be fine for me 

 

 

looks like you are playing on a CRT display, oldschool ! :-)

[too_tall]

 

looks like you are playing on a CRT display, oldschool ! :-)

 

Ha, nope!

 

[CarryG0ld]

It's ridiculous... There was a time the shima was OP as [edited]... Those 20km torps... With the Torpedoboost skill.. 16km,71kn.1,7km (I think) detection range... Was perfect... You kill everything. Or the 15kn torps... With 12km range.. And the same stats.. Also awesome.

Then they nerf her so hard that she is useless now...

Now you can choose 20km torps with 2,4km detection... Lol... (guys who choose this torps on his shima also skill survival expert in a Kurfürst and aft on a Fletcher).
They are useless.. Absolut... You have 12km torps... So use them and you are save from radar... But 67kn and 1,8km detection range isn't that good... 117sec (full Torpedoreload skill and spec, but without Adrenalinrush). No fun... Absolutely no fun.
Okay... Take the F3. Funny... Sometimes... When you have no radar Cruiser... If there is only one or a CV your *edit*... So and then you have the gearing... The awesome Gunboat who is spotted at the same distance as you. (and have better torps... With skill 13,2 km range, 71kn, 1,4?? Spottingrange, round about 100 seconds Reload)

In my opinion they have to change the shima.
Make it like the minekaze.
Great torps, crapguns... Nerf the guns in Firechance, nerf them in Relaod..
But.
Give her the best spotting range.. Because... Not to get spotted is that what it makes to the ninja he has to be.
So 5,2km spottingrange in full Concealment
Change the torps. Put away the 20km...they are useless...
Give her 15km With 67kn, damage of the 20km torps and maybe 2,2km spottingrange
12km with 69kn., the damage they have now and 1,8km spottingrange
And the 8km, with 76kn, 18k damage on the torps and 1,9 or 2km spottingrange.

I think that would "make the shima. Great again"... At now you only could use her in competitive with 20km torps spam the smokes of enemy teams or put some side down for the enemy... But in random u have to be lucky as [edited]to get a match with dumb BB's, no gearings, no CV's and maybe no Radar cruisers... I play the shima a lot in last time.. Sometimes you have the luck and get your 100k but the most if the time you have 60-60k rounds.
With the change from the shima you would have on real torpboat, 2 hybrids they have two different playstyles and on real gunboat.

 

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to: swearing

[CarryG0ld]

@ too_tall... Nice round you have there... But when I watch at your stats I see that was this round I write, where you have to get massiv luck with everything.

I dont want a OP shima back but I want a shima back who isn't that bad like now.

[AnotherDuck]

20 km torps work with Torpedo Acceleration. Or at least they do from my experience with the old T9 Kagero. They're not great, but you can certainly do damage with them, and they're good for area denial. Of course, you have to know how to use them, since it's going to take a long while for the torps to reach a distance where the extra range actually pays off. And you're limited if you flank the enemy, since you can often end up with allies within fire range. Finally, there's always that little bit that you don't have to use the max range every time. You should still get as close as you can. But with the range, you can torp from outside radar range, and still hit battleships behind the radar cruisers.

 

But regardless, Shima needs buffs. The entire standard line past T5 needs buffs. The alternate branch does well enough.

[urr027]

According to warships.today Shimakaze is still more popular than all the other tier 10 DDs combined. Apparently it being obsolete is not sinking in yet