Ranked S6 choice

[Dropman12]

Ranked S6 is comming and it will be T7. T7 is known as kingdom of Gneissenau and Scharnhorst. Last season was all about Bismarck, so it looks like german ships will be superior choice again, especially when we are promised to see Epicenter mode. But german twins lack hydro. They cant push as Birmack can. Also Scharnhorst, best performing T7 BB cannot pen other angled BB. And you cant hope for stupid enemies if you want to hit R1. Nagato still has the best firepower by far.

So which one would you expect to be the best performing?

 

My personal bet is AA Gneis. Inability to deal with angled enemy criples Scharnhorst too much in ranked.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Of all T7 battleships I expect Scharnhorst to be top, simply because she is no "real" battleship but more of a super-heavy cruiser. The 283mm guns lack a bit of punch once the enemy angles but the ship itself is very versatile. The fast main gun reload easily forgives bad targetting, the maneuverability feels much better than Gneisenau, and the secondary armament includes the 150mm turrets from Gneisenau's stock hull.

 

edit: However, it depends on the overall meta of course. If CVs get to good work this season, AA Gneisenau or even Colorado may have the edge in this regard.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Colorado is too slow to make a significant impact, when it is end game and about 3 ships left a Colorado is basically left stranded. It's armour isn't even "that" good, still takes big damage and dies but probably as it's hp pool is bad rather than a lack of plating.

 

Nagato AA is bad and you're not going to buff it without significant cost to other skills/abilities so if CVs are prevalent then she'll suffer.

 

Gnesi and Scharn I guess. I have a full secondary Schan build and captain (that's linked to Bismarck and on 19 points) so its optimal for brawling. The Gnesi build I have is for stealth and slightly longer ranged combat, it's essentially a T7 lift of how I set up the Tirpitz and shares the same captain, not sure if that build would work for Ranked as I play it more like an opportunist than a brawler. Also as much as I love the Gnesi and do well in her, the guns are still somewhat derpy.

 

I really should try and hit R1 in a BB since I gave up on the Bismarck last season and went instead with the Atago. 

 

Generally I found BBs cannot influence Ranked games hugely, you're simply there to tank damage and to (hopefully) land massive devastating strikes. The capping, spotting and general smart play comes from the smaller classes so you almost always have to rely on others not to mess up.

[Oely001]

Scharn and Gneise become more and more superior the closer they are to the enemy. Nagato and Colorado are hugely superior at distance, but how much reasonable fight can you do at distance? A Scharnhorst can run 2 km behind a DD and wipe out any enemy DD or CA which is coming too close to the cap, and she can survive that. That's her big advantage, compared to "normal" cruisers.

[MeTaLMooSe]

I'm really at a loss to know which BB to bring. I had high hopes on it being tiers 6 & 8 so have ships in port provisioned accordingly.

The Santa's convoy mass tier 6 prizes led me to believe so as well.

So I only have Sharnhorst ready to go with a mix of captains for secondaries or survival.

Truth be told I don't find her a convincing fully fledged battleship due to her main battery caliber and accuracy. My average stats are awful in her as she just doesn't work for me. Although I still have my highest damage of 156k in her.

I'm tempted to rebuy Nagato as she fulfils the role of damage dealer but not as a tank.

Gneis? She has it all but accuracy and weight of salvo fire.

 

I'm going to play a few cruiser and dd rounds and see firsthand how and what battleships are doing this ranked before investing in another ship and reskilling a Cappy.

[Affeks]

Scharnhorst>Gneisenau>Nagato>LOLrado

Still tho I'll be playing lots of Nagato, just best damage potential overall, but then again more punishing than the KM BBs both in terms of turtleback and AA.

 

Nagato would be far superior if the meta lacks CV and spends most of the time on long to medium ranges. If the meta is more aggressive and/or has many CVs then Gneisenlmao or Scharnhorst is the better choice. 

Tier 7 is surprisingly balanced in fact with Gneisenau and Scharnhorst lacking dpm and long range accuracy/pen

[Taralack]

Dont underastimate the power of the Nagato guys.

[Oely001]

Dont underastimate the power of the Nagato guys.

 

 

Not at all. She can be very punishing. However, being flanked she is dead within a minute. Season 5 was dominated by Bismarck not because of her firepower but because of her resiliance (and her hydro). And Nagato does not like HE spam.

[Poster_2015]

I must say I disagree almost with everything said in this post.

 

1) Scharnhorst. Atm it seems it will be bad - simply because the meta again will be BB heavy. Gneisenau does everything Scharnhorst does , but better in a BB environment - as well as having better AA by far. 

 

2) Colorado easily outperforms Nagato - it has better firepower (not sure who figured Nagato has - the guns on Colorado have better normalization, better penetration, better reload - it even has slightly better arcs due to heavier shell - despite worse initial speed). It turns a lot better, it has much better armor and AA. Only 2 things it loses on - speed and hp. The latter is largely irrelevant due to better repair - in some scenarios Colorado even ends with more effective hp (just mentioned it, realistically it will be slightly behind) - combined with better armor it actually lives longer. There is also the hidden weapon of Steven Seagall which Im going to use on it  (19 pts now) - extra turning on turrets is always nice, and actually noticeable, but the reload skill actually becomes useful now - 7 sec to switch shells from AP to HE is something i use and abuse a lot . Leaves a 3 knot less speed for a basically better ship in every aspect.

 

So unless we somehow see tons of cruisers (which we wont ), its Gneisenau for a more forgiving choice (anyone can play it well), and Colorado for people who really like it and can read map well (the speed isnt a big issue if you go to the right place, it becomes a huge issue if you go into wrong one and try to correct it). 

[MeTaLMooSe]

Been out a little in Scharn (weekend admittedly....) and I'm definitely going to be campaigning her.

FDG 18 point captain build for secondaries and stealth.

Sharn built for secondaries.

Add it's versatility, speed, RoF (especially with AR) and she is very influential in her role.

Speed to get anywhere with the fleet. Surviveability. Versatility of guns by sheer weight and rate of fire. Good enough AA to at least defend herself a little and...

HE secondaries to 7.6km and torps giving her a great exclusion zone.

I think she'll do for me.

[Oely001]

@Poster_2015: Advantage of Scharnhorst is that she can both play the cruiser and the BB role. No doubt, a Colo or Nagato in the back row will be helpful, but the battle is won at the forward line! A Scharn can go in 3 km behind the DD and kill anything smaller than herself. You can fight DDs with a Colo or Nagato, too, but you must be pretty close (<10 km), and it's hard to angle there against multiple enemies. And Colo's small HP pool becomes an issue with HE spammers, and we will have lots of HE spammers in Ranked!

 

I liked Colorado very much, her damage output is breathtaking. However, for me she was sooo situational, and that's a real weakness in Ranked Battles, where losses count so much.

[Poster_2015]

@Poster_2015: Advantage of Scharnhorst is that she can both play the cruiser and the BB role. No doubt, a Colo or Nagato in the back row will be helpful, but the battle is won at the forward line! A Scharn can go in 3 km behind the DD and kill anything smaller than herself. You can fight DDs with a Colo or Nagato, too, but you must be pretty close (<10 km), and it's hard to angle there against multiple enemies. And Colo's small HP pool becomes an issue with HE spammers, and we will have lots of HE spammers in Ranked!

 

 

I liked Colorado very much, her damage output is breathtaking. However, for me she was sooo situational, and that's a real weakness in Ranked Battles, where losses count so much.

 

Well you can brawl with Colorado too, and you should be .   Also Im a bit baffled. How is HE spammers bad for Colorado? Fire damage is % based, so that part doesnt matter much, and both HE direct and fire damage is repairable in large % - and Colorado repairs almost 13.000 hp per use vs Sharnhorst 9.500hp (assuming both run the repair boosting flag). So Shiny horse has hp advantage that goes completely away after 2 repairs (out of 5). I think most people dont know/remember that Colorado has 50% more powerful repair then other Battleships (20% vs 14% of hp base), used to be same as Yamato but after the latter was nerfed its the sole king of repair. 

 

If anything Colorado is the strongest ship defensively vs HE spam thanks to repair boost. 

[Oely001]

Colorado can repair more than other BB as long as she is alive! In Ranked we will have lots of Belfasts and gunboats with IFHE, what makes the Colorado completely unprotected against direct HE damage. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau have enough armor which is not penetrated by IFHE-127 mm shells, and they have more absolute HP to survive such an attack. I had games with Colorado where enemy cruisers melted me really fast; in Ranked it will probably become worse.

 

And Colorado's armor is unfortunately very unreliable at distances below 10 km. Don't misunderstand me, she is a good ship, but Ranked is much about survival, and that is not Colo's strength, at least that's my experience.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I don't know the exact figures but it seems like the Standard USN BBs (Colorado included) take massive damage from IFHE as so much of the ships are lightly armoured...

 

There will be a lot of IFHE spammers this season.

[Poster_2015]

Might be, and my opinion might change. I do believe we will see the standard 4 BB 1 CA 2 DD meta, or maybe some carrier variation. Thats why Colorado might shine, and Scharnhorst might be a bad choice

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Might be, and my opinion might change. I do believe we will see the standard 4 BB 1 CA 2 DD meta, or maybe some carrier variation. Thats why Colorado might shine, and Scharnhorst might be a bad choice

 

Scharn only has problems vs higher tier BB and for those who think she is a 15km sniper. Vs same or lower tier Scharn is very strong in a close range battle she'll both outlast and likely out damage you.

 

I'm still loathed to take a BB into Ranked as I feel they're the weakest class in terms of influence you can bring to a game, you're reliant on others spotting and screening for you no matter how good you are. Whereas the smaller ships and CV can dictate things far better.

[Poster_2015]

Well lets put it this way. In a Colorado vs Sharnhorst I feel extremely confident. Just yesterday met a shiny horse when i was at 3k hp and he was full. I ended at 8k and he was dead . He tried everything , AP did 0 dmg, HE salvos did 1-2k and were repaired. He wasnt the best player, but he didnt do any major blunders. Meanwhile AP salvos comfortably yielded 10-13k dmg when he was pretty much bow on (well angled enough to swing to use rear turret not really bow on). 

 

That might also be , simply because I really feel the synergy with Colorado, Im not really afraid of any BB it can meet - Iowa/Izumo I won a lot of duels against, in fact I feel better in Colorado vs Iowa then other way round . 

[Oely001]

Well lets put it this way. In a Colorado vs Sharnhorst I feel extremely confident. Just yesterday met a shiny horse when i was at 3k hp and he was full. I ended at 8k and he was dead . He tried everything , AP did 0 dmg, HE salvos did 1-2k and were repaired. He wasnt the best player, but he didnt do any major blunders. Meanwhile AP salvos comfortably yielded 10-13k dmg when he was pretty much bow on (well angled enough to swing to use rear turret not really bow on).

 

That might also be , simply because I really feel the synergy with Colorado, Im not really afraid of any BB it can meet - Iowa/Izumo I won a lot of duels against, in fact I feel better in Colorado vs Iowa then other way round .

 

 

This Scharnhorst driver must have been exeptionally stupid. Yes, you can bow-on to a Scharn with Colo, but that halves your own firepower. In the moment you angle to use your back turrets he can give you a lot of penetration damage with his 280 mm guns. Anyway, any good Scharn/Gneise driver will try to flank and torp you, and there is absolutely nothing you can do against it. A Nagato is fast enough to run from a Scharnhorst, she is actually a very hard nut when used properly. A Colorado - no. At distance fights (12-15 km) you will win, but not in close fights.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

What if your Colo spawns on the opposite side to the action? It's a free star lost then, and I've seen it happen a lot of times. 

 

I will bomb the $hit out of any Naga that starts to carry. The ship is essentially defenceless vs Saipan TBs. 

[MeTaLMooSe]

So Flamu's No 1 battleship of choice for ranked is .......... Nagato.

 

I can understand many of his points are valid but he doesn't mention AA at all................

[Poster_2015]

Well maybe he is doesnt feel CVs will be a large part of the battlefield, also remember that their impact is somewhat limited - Saipan really struggles when in strike configuration vs dogfighting expert Hiryu, and Hiryu has t6 TB - both severly limiting striking power.

 

Also in my opinion Flamu is hardly someone whose advice id follow about metagame. He definitely has great map awareness and makes correct decisions on battlefield, and hes a foe i definitely respect on the battlefield ( I dont think i ever played with him in team, I did play against him a number of times though). His choices/advices when the skills/ships/modules are concerned however, were very questionable for me so far. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Well maybe he is doesnt feel CVs will be a large part of the battlefield, also remember that their impact is somewhat limited - Saipan really struggles when in strike configuration vs dogfighting expert Hiryu, and Hiryu has t6 TB - both severly limiting striking power.

 

Also in my opinion Flamu is hardly someone whose advice id follow about metagame. He definitely has great map awareness and makes correct decisions on battlefield, and hes a foe i definitely respect on the battlefield ( I dont think i ever played with him in team, I did play against him a number of times though). His choices/advices when the skills/ships/modules are concerned however, were very questionable for me so far. 

 

Flamu is very much an advanced player. Sometimes I take heed of his loadouts, other times I make up my own mind. 

 

Most of us can't consistently do what he does. I still disagree with his BB choices, Nagato has huge visibility, slow reloads and is still vulnerable to enemy AP. Plus CVs will farm you if your cruisers die. I couldn't make Naga work in S4 and the meta seems stacked against her more now even with the armour buff.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Neither good CV choice is going to get air dominance vs another decent CV but that isn't the point. They can influence the battle hugely by spotting and killing DDs then killing bigger ships later on in the battle.

 

Maybe Flamu is right. CVs were not an issue in S5, but when they occasionally showed up they were hugely decisive. 

[Dropman12]

 

Flamu is very much an advanced player. Sometimes I take heed of his loadouts, other times I make up my own mind.

 

Most of us can't consistently do what he does. I still disagree with his BB choices, Nagato has huge visibility, slow reloads and is still vulnerable to enemy AP. Plus CVs will farm you if your cruisers die. I couldn't make Naga work in S4 and the meta seems stacked against her more now even with the armour buff.

 

Well he stated many times that it si just his opinion. Its no more than educated tip..and it should be in mind.

I can see his point, while germans are great CC monsters, I doubt ranked battles will be that agresive. Flamu probably expect more mid range firefights, which seems logical - all in all last season was full of Bismarck - the best ship for ofensive playstyle I ever played - yet close combat usually took place at the end when game was already won or lost. It was imho hydro what made it choice number one.

We will see soon...

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

Well he stated many times that it si just his opinion. Its no more than educated tip..and it should be in mind.

I can see his point, while germans are great CC monsters, I doubt ranked battles will be that agresive. Flamu probably expect more mid range firefights, which seems logical - all in all last season was full of Bismarck - the best ship for ofensive playstyle I ever played - yet close combat usually took place at the end when game was already won or lost. It was imho hydro what made it choice number one.

We will see soon...

 

He's probably right there. No one brawled last season too early as you'd just be slain by torps. I really couldn't make the Bismarck work for me but I still hit R1 regardless. I want to try in the Nagato this time if CVs don't work out.