Musing on RPF

[VC381]

 

So what's the feeling after the enormous $h!tstorm that this caused has died down?

 

I only took it on one ship to test, the Baltimore (figured it was a DD hunter and it would help) and so far I count exactly 2 games out of 20+ where it actually made a game-changing difference for me. Most of the time it's giving me a little trivial information (enemy will probably contest this cap or not) but nothing I couldn't guess/assume anyway, and the rest of the time it's just pointing at what I can see and am shooting at anyway, therefore being useless. With the cheap respecs coming to an end I'm tempted to switch it out for some AA power as I've actually been taken out, in one case by a Ranger of all things, while trying to support DDs in cap because the base AA isn't good enough. Maybe I'm using it wrong but on that ship, doesn't feel strong to me.

 

Also, I am rarely located, it seems that <10% of the playerbase even at T8-9 actually took this skill, and in cruisers I play aggressive enough to know if the enemy has it. OK, I don't really play high tier DDs but a few times I took my Benson out I either wasn't located, or was located but it had no consequences. I have no RPF on it and didn't feel I needed it, enemy DDs are predictable enough around caps anyway. Same story a few times while playing Shinonome and Akatsuki, when up-tiered with T8s RPF-ing me, little or no consequence to being "located", and it didn't happen that often anyway.

 

So for me this has turned into all smoke and no fire, certainly as far as casual/random play is concerned (you guys that play high tier ranked, if you say it breaks those I believe you, but remember you're in a minority there). With so many other great skill combinations for DDs, even if you want RPF, the sacrifices you would need to make for it leave you a tough choice at best.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

[beercrazy]

you need it on ships that are fast if you want to use it properly

I think on british cruisers and Russian dds its a very very op skill and I have used it to great effect

 

 

[Ghostychan]

TBH, RPF is not as epidemic as I feared and is not always useful.

But still, there are occasions when you get screwed by an enemy with RPF - buddy in a Bismarck was located by RPF and his hydro ran out from engaging the enemy at one cap. Without getting spotted for well over one minute, he received a full torpedo volley from a Benson and Shimakaze. (wouldn't have believed it if my Akizuki wasn't sailing with him)

(so much for RPF being for "DD hunters")

 

so my opinion stands as follows: RPF not as epidemic as imagined, but still broken.

[shulzidar]

It's epidemic and it's gamechanging... Here is a fresh SS of a battle I did today:

So far looks like the typical pennismeter set of SS of a particularly good results battle for me, but...

 

...The interesting thing comes from the story on WHY I was able to do this:

See that Shima on the right? Was the 1st ship I sank... He kicked my arse from A point and was following me thanks to RL... Nothing particular BUT...

 

He got a lemming train on his back advancing comfortabily offering the firepower that forced me to flee.

 

I sank him with torpedos and?...

 

...They sat there, suddenly, without eyes, without RL tellling them were I was...

 

...This is what happens when you trust the IWIN button and suddenly some1 breaks it.

 

This is the quintessential definition of a gamebreaking skill...

 

...And the incomming Ranked Seasson will be the last proof for any1 with any doubts, WITH or WITHOUT RL. WG, ofc, will keep insisting that everything is fine and dandy with this crap.

 

P.S. Just to clarify... I don't use RL myself... If I wouldn't have managed to sink that DD (Or better said, if that Shima didn't drive onto my torpedos)... The result of that battle would have been TOTALLY different... Because I would probably stood suppressed the entire battle and forced to do strictly bow attacks to that lemming train.

[cro_pwr]

Many people aren't using it, so you still don't feel a full impact of it in most of the games (I'm always picking concealment before RPF, since I value concealment too much).
But getting into one situation where you want to pop out behind an island and wreck someone, just to get informed you got detected by RPF, and you see them backing away instantly is enough to see how broken that skill actually is...
(Happened to me while playing Des Moines, going full ninja mode to pop out behind the island and greet their Cruiser with my freedom AP salvo, and wreck their DD that was hanging together with said cruiser, when all of a sudden RPF kicks in and 2 of them start backing off...)

 

And I've managed to hunt down few people due in DM due to RPF all of a sudden showing there is someone comming behind the island (usually DD or sneaky cruiser, that definitly don't want to meet DM up close and personal)

[Zathras_Grimm]

Its only been a week, however I have heard some BBs and CAs state they dont really notice it (ummm hello, you won't unless you're on the front line).

 

I've heard some DD hunters say it wasn't as helpful as they thought (well the fact that most countries have gunboat DDs indicates you are going to come up against another brawler; not an easy kill).

 

This was an anti-stealth measure, a measure designed to effect those with  the least HP because they are supposed to stay hidden and concealed to be effective.

 

RPF is just yet another nerf to the effectiveness of the IJN DDs. Along with Vigilence, Spotters, Fighters, CV planes, and certain map objectives or choke points where a DD will need to go into - there has been a nerf to torpedoes, torpedo armour belts, nerf to fire chance, hydro, more gunship DDs, radar and double spotters, even the weather (cyclones lol) are all obstacles to be overcome.

 

I understand the next patch is extending hydro and radar time yet shortening smoke time. I guess the RPF pointer to where the stealth DD is still isn't enough!

 

It used to be a real factor in this game that you had to play smart and ANY ship could kill another with skillfull play. WG has led us to a place where DDs find each other, fight each other and are destroyed or damaged faster in a brawling match. The CAs that offer immediate support are weakened or taken out from the back row when they are on the front line fighting.

 

All designed to allow the bigger ships with all their HP and health buttons survive, no matter their skill level and all the smaller ships die earlier, no matter their skill level.

 

Think about it, the torpedo boats were one of the dangers to a BB, yet WG has put every obstacle it can in the way. Every obstacle a direct opposing force to the DD.

 

DD choices: Spotters - hold back, fighters/CV planes - smoke/run, hydro - run away, radar - run away, additional DD gunships - run away; keep hidden used to be an option but not with RPF. 

[shulzidar]

All designed to allow the bigger ships with all their HP and health buttons survive, no matter their skill level and all the smaller ships die earlier, no matter their skill level.

 

That's why the incomming Ranked Seasson will showcase it in its full glory... The last remaining RL, will win the battle...

 

...Simple, predictable and easy to learn.

 

Just the recipe WG is loooking for.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

 

Guys, please use "RDF" or "RPF" when talking about that skill.. 'cause "RL" usually is used for "real life", something that some folks in this game should spend more time in, instead of the "virtual world" of this game and the interwebz at large.

[shulzidar]

Guys, please use "RDF" or "RPF" when talking about that skill.. 'cause "RL" usually is used for "real life", something that some folks in this game should spend more time in, instead of the "virtual world" of this game and the interwebz at large.

 

WG changed the name of the skill... So RPF or RDF do not apply any longer... I'm still wondering if was an "accident" or a deliberate movement to increase confusion for new players that look the forums for advice on how new skills work.

 

Regarding Real Life, indeed some ppl definitively needs more of it... The ammount of posts some ppl do in this forums is atonishing when you check when they joined.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Guys whats your thought of running RL ;) on kami? I find it that often i just forget about it, so im thinking of swaping it for something else

[thestaggy]

It was so much fun when battled started on Two Brothers and my Edinburgh was immediately located. Chance of getting in to an early ambush position gone as whomever (I assume it was a DD) was using it kept tracking me.

 

That said, I play a lot of my Fiji and with 9.3 km detection I'm one of the closest, if not the closest to the enemy.

[Dominico]

It's very limited use. Also very few people are actually using it.

 

The people who screamed and cried and threw thier toys out of the pram must be very embarassed.  Especially the "I quit" ones who carried on playing.

 

There are still some few who still don't get it and still think it's "op" "gamebreaking" "stops me sneaking" "entirely destroyed Japanese destroyers" etc etc.

 

But no... War gaming and the calm people were right. It gives bad players a bit more awareness which is just what the game needed.

 

Loving the new patch so far.  Also I can count on my fingers the amount of times I have been lit up by rdf...

[Zathras_Grimm]

Guys whats your thought of running RL ;) on kami? I find it that often i just forget about it, so im thinking of swaping it for something else

 

Problem I see is it you don't run it on the lowest HP DD, then the .5km concealment window you have against a gunboat like the Nicholas is useless/gone. I think it is something that although you might not want to spend your points on, it will be more of a danger to you if you don't (as oppose to dangerous to the enemy by picking it).

[shulzidar]

But no... War gaming and the calm people were right. It gives bad players a bit more awareness which is just what the game needed.

 

Your max tier ship is a T7...

 

...RL is not generalized at low Tiers because captains at those levels do not have finalized builds because lack the points... 

 

...A Nagato is enough to participate in Rankeds... I'm eager to see what your opinion is when you face 19 points captains retrained specifically for the next seasson, in an environment were this kind of Jedi Powers are more deccissive to use because of the reduced ammount of INITIAL enemies.

 

 

[VC381]

Well, actually it did give me some good awareness in a game just now. Two brothers, me and another cruiser went for A but all our DDs went to D. Because I had RPF, I knew no enemies where anywhere near A (the marker was pointing all the way across the map to their spawn) so we captured and flanked because we knew for sure we wouldn't get spotted doing it. Won the game. But still, quite situational and really a mistake on the enemy part.

[Zathras_Grimm]

It's very limited use. Also very few people are actually using it.

 

The people who screamed and cried and threw thier toys out of the pram must be very embarassed.  Especially the "I quit" ones who carried on playing.

 

There are still some few who still don't get it and still think it's "op" "gamebreaking" "stops me sneaking" "entirely destroyed Japanese destroyers" etc etc.

 

But no... War gaming and the calm people were right. It gives bad players a bit more awareness which is just what the game needed.

 

Loving the new patch so far.  Also I can count on my fingers the amount of times I have been lit up by rdf...

 

Favourite ships: Belfast, Warspite and Kongo. What DD is going to want to get near a Belfast and what DD is going to survive long enough to get to the Warspite and Kongo? My point exactly!

[Zathras_Grimm]

But no... War gaming and the calm people were right. It gives bad players a bit more awareness which is just what the game needed.

 

Your max tier ship is a T7...

 

...RL is not generalized at low Tiers because captains at those levels do not have finalized builds because lack the points... 

 

...A Nagato is enough to participate in Rankeds... I'm eager to see what your opinion is when you face 19 points captains retrained specifically for the next seasson, in an environment were this kind of Jedi Powers are more deccissive to use because of the reduced ammount of INITIAL enemies.

 

 

 

Wrong. From Tier V there are plenty of high point captains who have not wished to move to the higher Tiers. Also at Tier VII he is also facing up to Tier IX ships.

[Dominico]

 

Favourite ships: Belfast, Warspite and Kongo. What DD is going to want to get near a Belfast and what DD is going to survive long enough to get to the Warspite and Kongo? My point exactly!

 

holy crap you struggle to take warspite and kongo out in a Destroyer? Or you mean something else?

 

Though I agree with belfast but they can just use the RPF superpowers to avoid Belfast no? It's so all powerful RPF...?

 

Or its only powerful when it's used against you.... hmmmmm

Really or you are just trolling?

 

Personally I think RPF is best on destroyers. So it's a buff to them not a nerf.

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

holy crap you struggle to take warspite and kongo out in a Destroyer? Or you mean something else?

 

Though I agree with belfast but they can just use the RPF superpowers to avoid Belfast no? It's so all powerful RPF...?

 

Or its only powerful when it's used against you.... hmmmmm

Really or you are just trolling?

 

Personally I think RPF is best on destroyers. So it's a buff to them not a nerf.

 

Holy crap? Why the exaggerated start to the post (for emphasis?)? Ah, no the troll statement says it all.

 

 

Ok:

1. You agree with the Belfast.

2. You agree that the RPF is for DDs and can be a buff, for gunship DDs (exactly what I have been saying).

3. The RPF promotes early contact and brawling. Therefore what DD is going to survive long enough to get to the Warspite and Kongo.

 

 

Then when they finally survive the DDs gunboats that had RPF, the CAs, Spotters (x2), fighters, CV aircraft, Hydro, Vigilance, Hydro + Vigilance and Radar, the nerf to torpedoes and the fact a BB captain might use the WASD keys, yes he might well hit the BB with a torpedo and do some damage. Of course you have to take into account the RNG for torpedo damage, the torpedo armour belt, the high HP and the magic Health buttons, but yes after all this the torpedoes can take out a BB.

 

 

Wow, all the above does sound a ridiculous amount of crap to get past in order to score a hit. No wonder you thought I was trolling. Unfortunately its true; hop in a IJN DD and see.  

 

 

(Can I use a Holy Crap now lol).

 

 

 

 

[eliastion]

Well, it's exactly as I have foreseen - the skill is pretty rare and even when someone has it - it doesn't change that much in Randoms at all.

 

So, well, so farm I'm not surprised in the slightest. From the start my fears were about Ranked and Team battles. I don't participate in the latter so what's left is Rankeds - we'll see how it works there.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

 

Problem I see is it you don't run it on the lowest HP DD, then the .5km concealment window you have against a gunboat like the Nicholas is useless/gone. I think it is something that although you might not want to spend your points on, it will be more of a danger to you if you don't (as oppose to dangerous to the enemy by picking it).

 

Sorry man, but I have a hard time figuring out your point

Are you FOR or AGAINST it on the Kamikaze.

 

I feel the 4 points should rather go to ADRENALIN RUSH + something else, because most of time I dont even pay attention to the RPF/RDF/RL gui.

[Zathras_Grimm]

Well, it's exactly as I have foreseen - the skill is pretty rare and even when someone has it - it doesn't change that much in Randoms at all.

 

So, well, so farm I'm not surprised in the slightest. From the start my fears were about Ranked and Team battles. I don't participate in the latter so what's left is Rankeds - we'll see how it works there.

 

I wouldn't expect you to be affected by RPF in your DD gunships. They aren't exactly built for stealth, as Dominico stated, for DD gunships this is a buff if they want to hunt DDs with better concealment but less DPM and HP.

 

Again, I will state this was a mechanic that targets stealth ships. Is this a game changer, yes if used it can prevent the type of flanking moves and cap steals during the battle and at the end of the match. A stealth DD cannot go through the middle of an enemy to get to the bigger targets; it cannot now flank either. That changes the game. Does it change the game for everyone, no.

 

 

[terios]

RPF is very expensive skill with 4 points, which is a very good thing. Tried it quite some times and came to the conclusion that my brain does RPF instead of the game, also my brain works on multiple targets... So leave RPF as is for brainless people, since people with brains will have a clear advantage over them by at least 4 skill points (IFHE, concealment, etc.).

The only way RPF would be able to screw this game if it would be 1-2 skill points. I'm happy with the current situation, that actually very few people using it (mostly the brain-dead).

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

Sorry man, but I have a hard time figuring out your point

Are you FOR or AGAINST it ok the Kamikaze.

 

I feel the 4 points should rather go to ADRENALIN RUSH + something else, because most of time I dont even pay attention to the RPF/RDF/RL gui.

 

Sorry:

 

1. The Kamikaze is the lowest HP DD in its Tier, so you can't really afford to get into a brawl. That is why you have concealment.

2. However, if an enemy DD like the Nicholas has RPF, your concealment advantage is gone. He heads straight for you, you have no idea, and you are in the brawl that you needed to avoid. On top of that the gunship already has his guns aimed in the right direction and until you are able to turn away and outrun him/smoke you will continually be under fire.

3. Therefore yes I would take it. At least knowing what DDs are on the other team list and knowing where he is coming from will allow you to adjust and keep that concealment.

 

However, if you say you don't use it even if you have it, then I have a hard time figuring out why you asked the question.

 

I would be interested on your final decision and how you get on.

 

EDIT: If I had a 19 point Captain I would pick:

Preventative Maintenance (but you may want Priority Target(PT))

Last Stand and Adrenaline Rush (Last stand takes care of engine and Rudder so this is why you may want to choose PT instead of PM)

Survivability Expert and Torpedo Armament Expertise.

Concealment and RPF.

 

 

Just my thoughts. In fact if I had another 4 points (they did away with RPF) I would probably use it on PT and another 3 pointer depending on whether torps keep hitting (Vigilance), use of consumables (Superintendent), or the need for healing from stuff like fires (Basics of survivability).

[FluffyCheeks]

Well, it's exactly as I have foreseen - the skill is pretty rare and even when someone has it - it doesn't change that much in Randoms at all.

 

So, well, so farm I'm not surprised in the slightest. From the start my fears were about Ranked and Team battles. I don't participate in the latter so what's left is Rankeds - we'll see how it works there.

 

Actually this is one of the more pointless quotes I have seen about RPF, now that it has obviously NOT affected Randoms, the next whining point will be Ranked/team battles... cant you guys who all 'IQUIT' just carry on 'IQUITTING' and go away? RPF/RDF/RL is NOT the game breaking skill that you all cried about, in fact it is rarely used in battles as there are MUCH better skills for those 4 points, yes maybe 'some' IJN players MAY have epic screenshot games to show, but this does not show the 'obvious' broken mechanics of this skill.... it just shows a stupid enemy team.......