Return of the Carrier

[WingedHussar_Adler]

I lost 30 planes to spoting fletcher in my essex in period over 2-3 minutes. Dds have so bad aaa. Buff pls.

[Zathras_Grimm]

I lost 30 planes to spoting fletcher in my essex in period over 2-3 minutes. Dds have so bad aaa. Buff pls.

 

Excellent post. Lol.

 

The Gearing 31.8 damage a second and you attacked a Fletcher with over 50 damage a second. Dude nice job lol.

 

And here I am asking for an increase from 3.2 damage. If you're silly enough to attack/spot a ship noted for its AA ability in its write up then maybe you do need fish in a barrel. 

[pra3y]

 

Actually I didn't think the Minekaze was too bad. It had a rating of 10 I think and if fighters were flying over you for a period of time you could get a couple of kills. It is actually from the same tier and is exactly the kind of improvement I was looking at.

 

Thing is I didn't want BB levels of AA, I just wanted AA to actually shoot down a plane every once in a while lol. The 2 rating does not (seriously lol). Unfortunately the want for better AA seemed to open up frustration with ohers and the current situation with AA on other ships. For some reason the fact that they felt they couldn't attack other ships because of AA, made it ok to attack DDs with little AA. It's a shame if that is the case but I do not see why that should make asking for better AA that actually shoots something down every once in a while a crime. 

 

Thank you. 

 

Like I said there is a reason why the Mini and Fujin has bad AA. Would you want to trade in better AA for higher detectability? For less guns? For even worse torps? I get what you mean, even for a minor increase in AA power and shooting down enemy planes once in a while. Its like a CV player asking for a buff to the health of planes by a bit so that they can attack a Cleveland and have their planes survive.The best thing to do is to just adapt I guess. CVs have to fight against and adept to constant AA changes. Why not just do the same? Lure enemy planes to stronger AA ships, smoke a larger patch/area of smoke and move around the smoke to make it harder  for CVs to torp you in smoke ect;

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

Like I said there is a reason why the Mini and Fujin has bad AA. Would you want to trade in better AA for higher detectability? For less guns? For even worse torps? I get what you mean, even for a minor increase in AA power and shooting down enemy planes once in a while. Its like a CV player asking for a buff to the health of planes by a bit so that they can attack a Cleveland and have their planes survive.The best thing to do is to just adapt I guess. CVs have to fight against and adept to constant AA changes. Why not just do the same? Lure enemy planes to stronger AA ships, smoke a larger patch/area of smoke and move around the smoke to make it harder  for CVs to torp you in smoke ect;

Sorry I don't think you read my post. I don't think the Minekaze has bad AA. I would like the Fujin to have similar.

 

The IJN already has the least DPM guns and why should I have to take a hit somewhere else because I'm asking for an AA level equal to her sister ship (before the IJN split; have no idea what it is now it's a 'gunship' lol).  

 

Its not really an adapt situation as it has always been 2 AA; also whereas the smoke thing can work the intro of hydro, radar and RPG has changed the landscape a little.

I would also be totally up with a discussion on bringing down some AA or reviewing aircraft survivability. Certainly wouldn't dismiss it. Pity some find it hard to do the same. 

 

I appreciate your views. 

[pra3y]

Sorry I don't think you read my post. I don't think the Minekaze has bad AA. I would like the Fujin to have similar.

 

The IJN already has the least DPM guns and why should I have to take a hit somewhere else because I'm asking for an AA level equal to her sister ship (before the IJN split; have no idea what it is now it's a 'gunship' lol).  

 

Its not really an adapt situation as it has always been 2 AA; also whereas the smoke thing can work the intro of hydro, radar and RPG has changed the landscape a little.

I would also be totally up with a discussion on bringing down some AA or reviewing aircraft survivability. Certainly wouldn't dismiss it. Pity some find it hard to do the same. 

 

I appreciate your views. 

 

Sorry i think i missed the min part. In any case I still don't see why its bad enough for the Fujin to get an AA buff. Well we'll just agree to disagree then

[El2aZeR]

The Gearing 31.8 damage a second and you attacked a Fletcher with over 50 damage a second.

 

Uhm, where do you get these dps numbers from? Because that's not how AA works. AA is basically a roll against plane survivability every 5 / 0,5 / 0,1 seconds depending on the gun.

I recommend reading this guide:

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/91094-how-do-aa-guns-work/page__pid__2227343#entry2227343

 

Also, you want to buff the Fujin? One of the most powerful DDs tier for tier?

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

Uhm, where do you get these dps numbers from? Because that's not how AA works. AA is basically a roll against plane survivability every 5 / 0,5 / 0,1 seconds depending on the gun.

I recommend reading this guide:

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/91094-how-do-aa-guns-work/page__pid__2227343#entry2227343

 

Also, you want to buff the Fujin? One of the most powerful DDs tier for tier?

 

Wargaming.net Wiki. Search the ship, AA is in the info.

 

Fujin is actually the weakest AA attack in its Tier.

 

 

Agree to disagree remember

[El2aZeR]

Wargaming.net Wiki. Search the ship, AA is in the info.

 

Says Gearing has a total of 142,9 dps. Did you perhaps miss a few numbers or were you just referring to a specific set of guns?

 

Agree to disagree remember

 

Well, no, because it becomes a question of overall balance, not just AA. Fujin and Kamikaze were already spared from the nerf that hit the Minekaze and thus remain some of the most powerful DDs of their tier and one of the most powerful DDs tier for tier in general. Heck, they're actually op as hell, being only surpassed by the Gremy. Bad AA is a good trade-off for all the advantages they get, yet you want do away with one of their only weaknesses? Really? 

 

I mean sure, you could continue to demand buffs to some of the most powerful ships in the game, writing it off as your opinion, but then people will start to question whether or not you remotely understand how "balance" is even spelled.

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

Says Gearing has a total of 142,9 dps. Did you perhaps miss a few numbers or were you just referring to a specific set of guns?

 

 

Well, no, because it becomes a question of overall balance, not just AA. Fujin and Kamikaze were already spared from the nerf that hit the Minekaze and thus remain some of the most powerful DDs of their tier and one of the most powerful DDs tier for tier in general. Heck, they're actually op as hell, being only surpassed by the Gremy. Bad AA is a good trade-off for all the advantages they get, yet you want do away with one of their only weaknesses? Really? 

 

I mean sure, you could continue to demand buffs to some of the most powerful ships in the game, writing it off as your opinion, but then people will start to question whether or not you remotely understand how "balance" is even spelled.

 

 Oh no, I got it wrong...damn.  Not 31.8 (one set of guns) but in fact 142.9 dps. Am I still right with the 3.2 dps with the Fujin?

 

And yes, I would like the Fujin to have AA comparable to other DDs in that Tier. I am not asking it to be an AA god, I am asking it to have the chance to shoot down a plane if it is attacked, at the moment the odds are nothing.

 

 

*Sigh* I understand your frustration with some ships being AA monsters, I really do. Funny how I can see your side of things with too powerful an AA presence on some ships when you can't see my want for an AA that does 'something'.  (Have I used the *sigh* and facepalm correctly lol).

 

 

The use of facepalms and sighs aside, I see nothing wrong in upping a non existent AA to something comparable to other DDs in the same Tier. The Fujin is the lowest HP lowest DPM and there are enough anti-stealth mechanisms in game to still make it comparable to other DDs in the Tier. It is a premium and does as well as the other premiums but if you look at the Minekaze before the IJN split it had a 51.65% WR and sat at 92 of 187 ships with a 0.9 avg kill rate a game. The Minekaze was a better ship than the Fujin and reflects the average grind of the player base.

 

 

I understand you don't want any raise of AA to any ship, I have already stated we can agree to disagree on this. Accept it or not it really makes no odds to me.

[El2aZeR]

I understand your frustration with some ships being AA monsters, I really do. Funny how I can see your side of things with too powerful an AA presence when you can't see my want for an AA that does something.

 

I simply think that Fujin/Kamikaze don't deserve the extra AA considering how monstrously powerful they are. Also there are exactly 2 ships equipped with radar that they can meet in their MM spread (both premiums), everything else they can both outspot and outpace, making her low HP and gun power largely irrelevant.

I believe trading garbage AA (let's not kid ourselves, Minekaze isn't exactly that much better) for even more garbage AA but amazing torps is a extremely good deal.

 

Really, the CV player in me wouldn't mind Fujin/Kami getting their AA buffed to Minekaze levels, because it'd be of no consequences to me regardless. My sense of balancing however would be rather offended (although to be fair it's offended by a lot of things WG decides to do).

[Zathras_Grimm]

The Fujin and Kamikaze were the weaker sisters to the Minekaze, which was a better ship before the IJN DD split (better rudder, better speed, better AA). It is the fact that they are premier ships and have better players taking advantage of them that gives them their higher WR/Kill Avg. Same thing happens with the ARP Kongo being 4% better than the normal Kongo.

 

So I would like AA comparable to the Minekaze that I am sure at least killed some planes all the time that I played her. As stated her win rate was 51.65%, her Avg Kills a game was 0.9 and she sat at 92 of 187 ships; seems pretty average. Now lets look at your favourite ship: 51.94% WR, 0.9 Avg Kills a game and sits at 92 out of 187 ships. (The Minekaze has now fallen to 102 since the IJN DD split).

 

So your most used ship is monstrously powerful too; your second ship is even worse with a better win rate and kill rate of 1.3 per game! Do these monstrously powerful ships offend you when you sail them?
 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

The Fujin and Kamikaze were the weaker sisters to the Minekaze, which was a better ship before the IJN DD split (better rudder, better speed, better AA). It is the fact that they are premier ships and have better players taking advantage of them that gives them their higher WR/Kill Avg. Same thing happens with the ARP Kongo being 4% better than the normal Kongo.

 

No doubt about it, but considering the current situation I wouldn't buff Fujin/Kami in any way. Heck, even back then Fujin/Kamikaze weren't weak, it was just that Minekaze was too strong.

 

Now lets look at your favourite ship: 51.94% WR, 0.9 Avg Kills a game and sits at 92 out of 187 ships.

 

Uhm, you kinda lost me here. What ship are you referring to?

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

No doubt about it, but considering the current situation I wouldn't buff Fujin/Kami in any way. Heck, even back then Fujin/Kamikaze weren't weak, it was just that Minekaze was too strong.

 

 

Uhm, you kinda lost me here. What ship are you referring to?

 

The Hiryu, it's down as your top ship and performs better than the Minekaze did and the Minekaze was a better ship in specs to both the Fujin and Kamikaze. https://eu.warships.today/vehicle/4283414224/Hiryu

 

If you thought the Fujin and Kamikaze are monstrously powerful then wouldn't that be the same for your own ship and to have a ship 'comparable' to that should 'offend you', I believe were your words?

 

(and I counted 4 ships that can outrun me from Tier VII alone, were your numbers from Tier V only?)

 

 

[El2aZeR]

Ah, makes sense.

 

Problem here is that you're comparing 2 entirely different ship classes. CV WR even gets fudged because there are only 2 CV lines in the game + mirror MM, so it only shows that one CV is superior to the other, nothing more, nothing less. (Hiryu vs Hiryu = always 50% WR, thus Hiryu vs Ranger is the only thing that influences it)

 

A more reasonable comparison would be this: 

 

 

Let's ignore the tech tree ships because potatoes be potatoes as you've pointed out. That still leaves Kami & Fujin as the best performing premium DDs at T5, despite Kamikaze R actually being one of the most widely distributed premium ships. And that's against the Gremy, which is hailed as one of the most op ships of the op ships.

So even stat-wise you can't really justify a buff.

[SaxonHoliday]

Just dropping in my own two cents here on the current; but despite or maybe because of being a dedicated DD player, I'm going to agree with El2aZeR here. The Kamikaze triplets really don't need an AA buff - they are already among the strongest DDs at their tier with their combo of best concealment in the game and top-tier maneouvrability, as well as their mad 68 knot torpedoes. I only play my KMKZ occasionally, but she is incredibly strong when I do. And when an enemy CV happens to smart up and circle their planes over me - well, that's really my problem that the carrier has a grudge against DDs, but it also means that that's a squadron he can't use elsewhere where it would most likely actually have more impact. The absolute worst thing you might encounter is a Hiryuu or Ranger, in which case your AA guns would do jack crapanyway even if they did get buffed to a reasonable level. Besides, this isn't T9, so it isn't like you'll run into those nigh-unavoidable Taihou triple torpedo criss-cross attacks. Those are a proper [edited]. Mostly, I find carrier attacks easy to deal with even with terrible AA unless they dedicate 2+ torpedo bombers to criss-cross me, and even those can be dealt with under the right circumstances and with a little practice.

 

I'll be honest, I share the opinion that destroyers, both the class as a whole and specific ships, have their problems... but bad AA isn't one of them. AA is supposed to be a destroyer's weakness, as they get fantastic concealment, speed and stealth torpedoes (except the Russians) in return. Matters like high-tier US destroyers being better torpedo boats than their IJN counterparts or German DDs having post-fire detection blooms comparable to battleships or Radio Location's very existence are much more pressing concerns, at least in my opinion.

[Zathras_Grimm]

Ah, makes sense.

 

Problem here is that you're comparing 2 entirely different ship classes. CV WR even gets fudged because there are only 2 CV lines in the game + mirror MM, so it only shows that one CV is superior to the other, nothing more, nothing less. (Hiryu vs Hiryu = always 50% WR, thus Hiryu vs Ranger is the only thing that influences it)

 

A more reasonable comparison would be this:

 

 

Let's ignore the tech tree ships because potatoes be potatoes as you've pointed out. That still leaves Kami & Fujin as the best performing premium DDs at T5, despite Kamikaze R actually being one of the most widely distributed premium ships. And that's against the Gremy, which is hailed as one of the most op ships of the op ships.

So even stat-wise you can't really justify a buff.

 

Actually you shouldn't ignore the tech tree ships as they reflect the player base more than premiums do. And the stats used are WR and Kill Avg for that ship against its piers. So to use the stats I did makes sense. Any ship in a good players hands can perform well, but when used by the average player it gives a better reflection of the game.

 

 

I'm afraid whatever way you cut it when you play your favourite ship, its monstrous and it has to offend you because it outperforms the Minekaze, the best ship out of the 3 monstrously powerful ships. Your words remember the Fujin and Kamikaze are monstrously powerful, the Minekaze was better specced and your ship outperforms the Minekaze.  

 

 

SatanicAxe: No problem, we too can agree to disagree. I understand the raise in AA to the Minekaze level would do nothing compared to CAs or BBs; I don't expect them to. I'd just like them to do something. 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

I'm afraid whatever way you cut it when you play your favourite ship, its monstrous and it has to offend you because it outperforms the Minekaze, the best ship out of the 3 monstrously powerful ships. Your words remember the Fujin and Kamikaze are monstrously powerful, the Minekaze was better specced and your ship outperforms the Minekaze.  

 

Well, no, because a CV fills an entirely different role than a DD. CVs will always perform better than other ships in terms of stats because that's essentially what they were designed to do, to put out loads of damage as compensation for their inability to do other things. You need to interpret stats instead of just comparing them blindly.

 

Honestly, at this point I believe you're trolling me.

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

Well, no, because a CV fills an entirely different role than a DD. CVs will always perform better than other ships in terms of stats because that's essentially what they were designed to do, to put out loads of damage as compensation for their inability to do other things. You need to interpret stats instead of just comparing them blindly.

 

Honestly, at this point I believe you're trolling me.

 

And now you sink to the lowest denominator of calling someone a troll because he's shown your stats are comparable to a ship you calls monstrous. And wow, the reason given, they (CVs) were designed to perform better. Well I actually wonder who is trolling who here lol

 

Ok, so I guess we're back to the agreeing to disagree. So as my stance on raising a DDs AA from 2 to something comparable to its sister ships (10) remains and your stance that no it shouldn't remains, I guess I'll call it a night. Goodnight!

[El2aZeR]

And wow, the reason given, they (CVs) were designed to perform better.

 

*perform better stat-wise (damage, k/d, planes shot down etc). It's hardly disputable.

 

But yeah, let's leave it at that.

[Elenortirion]

 

And now you sink to the lowest denominator of calling someone a troll because he's shown your stats are comparable to a ship you calls monstrous. And wow, the reason given, they (CVs) were designed to perform better. Well I actually wonder who is trolling who here lol

 

Ok, so I guess we're back to the agreeing to disagree. So as my stance on raising a DDs AA from 2 to something comparable to its sister ships (10) remains and your stance that no it shouldn't remains, I guess I'll call it a night. Goodnight!

 

welp tbh reading that exchange of post from a third perspective really gives such a feeling

 

either that or you may have problems with reading but from here it seems like the guy tried to explain a thought to you and got alot of arguments to support his claims

 

meanwhile you just keep repeating that he has better personal stats in hiryuu than fujin and that it must be offending him...

 

while he not even once used the term "offends me" [on this page at least] what he said is:

 

My sense of balancing however would be rather offended

 

which is wildly different in meaning than him being offended by fujin being monstrocity if it gains anyhow better AA

 

and his point imo quite holds - if premium ship is meant to be balanced and have clear advantages than it's tech tree counterpart it has to have necessary drawbacks attached to that

 

and also his other point - comparing raw stats in numbers of CV to a DD is plainly stupid.....

it's like comparing dimensions of watermelon and banana - and then calling out that specific banana is not big at all because that melon over there is bigger - and all of that while forgetting that said banana is indeed bigger than expectable average made by measuring other bananas and that watermelon was dragged into conversation just because it's bigger than this banana... I hope you are getting my point

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

welp tbh reading that exchange of post from a third perspective really gives such a feeling

 

either that or you may have problems with reading but from here it seems like the guy tried to explain a thought to you and got alot of arguments to support his claims

 

meanwhile you just keep repeating that he has better personal stats in hiryuu than fujin and that it must be offending him...

 

while he not even once used the term "offends me" [on this page at least] what he said is:

 

 

which is wildly different in meaning than him being offended by fujin being monstrocity if it gains anyhow better AA

 

and his point imo quite holds - if premium ship is meant to be balanced and have clear advantages than it's tech tree counterpart it has to have necessary drawbacks attached to that

 

and also his other point - comparing raw stats in numbers of CV to a DD is plainly stupid.....

it's like comparing dimensions of watermelon and banana - and then calling out that specific banana is not big at all because that melon over there is bigger - and all of that while forgetting that said banana is indeed bigger than expectable average made by measuring other bananas and that watermelon was dragged into conversation just because it's bigger than this banana... I hope you are getting my point

 

So I talk about levelling up a DDs AA to a level of being able to shoot a plane down and he quotes no because there are already too many ships that beat the crap out of planes already.

 

Then maybe those ships should be re-evaluated.

 

And how is bringing the Fujin AA up to that of the Minekaze monstrous. And the ship he uses outperforms the Minekaze who has better specs than the Fujin and Kamikaze. Its all there to read no melons or bananas lol. Just stats that show what I have quoted to be right. If he thinks a ship with the specs of a Minekaze is monstrous and offends him then he should look at his own favourite ships results compared to the Minekaze.

 

 

On the side of uping my AA from 2 to 10, if you don't like it fine. We can agree to disagree too.

[El2aZeR]

Is English perhaps not your first language or do you have troubles reading? Because really, no matter how hard your points get refuted or how constructive an argument is, you keep dismissing that and repeating your flawed view of things like some broken record, making it blatantly obvious that you either have no idea about game balance or trolling.

 

At this point I'll just give up. It's like attempting to teach a pigeon chess.

[Elenortirion]

So I talk about levelling up a DDs AA to a level of being able to shoot a plane down and he quotes no because there are already too many ships that beat the crap out of planes already.

 

no, he says that the ship shold not get it buffed because weak AA is the "necessary drawback' to at least try to keep ship balanced

 

And how is bringing the Fujin AA up to that of the Minekaze monstrous

 

because fujin have currently alot of advantages over minekaze, so to keep them into relative balance it needs to have something weaker as well

 

And the ship he uses outperforms the Minekaze who has better specs than the Fujin and Kamikaze. Its all there to read no melons or bananas lol. Just stats that show what I have quoted to be right.

 

welp seems like paralels are not your strong point so I'll put it bluntly and maybe without difficult words to make sure you'll be able to comprehend the meaning:

 

You. Are. Comparing. T7. Aircraft Carrier. Stats. To. Frikking. T5! DESTROYER! And. Try. To. Use. It. As. An. Argument. For. Why. Destroyer. Is. Not. Strong. Enought. To. Deserve. A. Weakness.

 

now be carefull difficult words are incoming:

This have no possible ever way to be anyhow an argument for any one with residues of brain because due to design differences not only you'd expect Aircraft Carrier to have those numbers bigger than a destroyer but especially you'd expect 2 TIERS HIGHER Aircraft Carrier to have better stats than a Destroyer

 

so to explain in simpel previous paralel - Fujin is Banana - a Banana that is big when compared to Other bananas.

El2aZeR's Hiryuu is Watermelon

 

watermelons by default are bigger than Bananas

 

you compare fujin-banana to a watermelon Hiryuu and claim fujin not being a big banana, because hiryuu have greater dimensions

 

oh we can even try to drop one level of abstract from that paralel

your attempt of using Hiryuu stats to call out fujin not being that powerfull is like denying Akizuki class being goddamn big destroyer by pointing out how big yamato was.

 

If he thinks a ship with the specs of a Minekaze is monstrous

 

of prenerfed Minekaze - we are talking current game status here not the history

 

and offends him

 

FFS did you even read any of posts being posted here? in my previous post I've directly quoted you that part of his stance where even a pre-schooler would have no issues to understand that it does not "offends him" but his feeling of balance which is wildly different thing

 

then he should look at his own favourite ships results compared to the Minekaze.

 

and again - he shouldn't because OBVIOUSLY you cannot directly compare CV to a DD because of how vast the differences in role and design of those ships are.

 

On the side of uping my AA from 2 to 10, if you don't like it fine. We can agree to disagree too.

 

problem here is that you were given logical evaluation why it would not be a good idea from balancing standpoint even if difference was barely noticeable for gameplay.

fujin has superior torpedoes, superior main battery shell, so for it to not be CLEARLY SUPERIOR ship it NEEDS to have SOMETHING inferior

 

and there is nothing to agree or disagree in that - this are BASICS of balancing wether you like it or not.

 

I couldn't really get it explained simpler, so if the point eludes you again I'll just assume your only intention in this thread being trollbaiting

[Sargento_YO]

"Why a CV would try to sink a DD being the hardest thing to hit"

 

I play Carriers alot (specially with my Zuiho, I LOVE it). And often I try to find and sink enemy DD by using torp bombers and doing the Anvil/hammer attack. I focus on them because I know some DD can be a really big pain in the [edited]if they are let loose around. Another reason of why I chase them is when most of the enemy fleet are tightly packed together giving way too strong AA coverage, while many DD are just sailin around, far from the fleet.

 

However, I haven´t seen almost any other carrier do the same thing on an enemy DD.

[Zathras_Grimm]

Is English perhaps not your first language or do you have troubles reading? Because really, no matter how hard your points get refuted or how constructive an argument is, you keep dismissing that and repeating your flawed view of things like some broken record, making it blatantly obvious that you either have no idea about game balance or trolling.

 

At this point I'll just give up. It's like attempting to teach a pigeon chess.

 

 

no, he says that the ship shold not get it buffed because weak AA is the "necessary drawback' to at least try to keep ship balanced

 

 

because fujin have currently alot of advantages over minekaze, so to keep them into relative balance it needs to have something weaker as well

 

 

welp seems like paralels are not your strong point so I'll put it bluntly and maybe without difficult words to make sure you'll be able to comprehend the meaning:

 

You. Are. Comparing. T7. Aircraft Carrier. Stats. To. Frikking. T5! DESTROYER! And. Try. To. Use. It. As. An. Argument. For. Why. Destroyer. Is. Not. Strong. Enought. To. Deserve. A. Weakness.

 

now be carefull difficult words are incoming:

This have no possible ever way to be anyhow an argument for any one with residues of brain because due to design differences not only you'd expect Aircraft Carrier to have those numbers bigger than a destroyer but especially you'd expect 2 TIERS HIGHER Aircraft Carrier to have better stats than a Destroyer

 

so to explain in simpel previous paralel - Fujin is Banana - a Banana that is big when compared to Other bananas.

El2aZeR's Hiryuu is Watermelon

 

watermelons by default are bigger than Bananas

 

you compare fujin-banana to a watermelon Hiryuu and claim fujin not being a big banana, because hiryuu have greater dimensions

 

oh we can even try to drop one level of abstract from that paralel

your attempt of using Hiryuu stats to call out fujin not being that powerfull is like denying Akizuki class being goddamn big destroyer by pointing out how big yamato was.

 

 

of prenerfed Minekaze - we are talking current game status here not the history

 

 

FFS did you even read any of posts being posted here? in my previous post I've directly quoted you that part of his stance where even a pre-schooler would have no issues to understand that it does not "offends him" but his feeling of balance which is wildly different thing

 

 

and again - he shouldn't because OBVIOUSLY you cannot directly compare CV to a DD because of how vast the differences in role and design of those ships are.

 

 

problem here is that you were given logical evaluation why it would not be a good idea from balancing standpoint even if difference was barely noticeable for gameplay.

fujin has superior torpedoes, superior main battery shell, so for it to not be CLEARLY SUPERIOR ship it NEEDS to have SOMETHING inferior

 

and there is nothing to agree or disagree in that - this are BASICS of balancing wether you like it or not.

 

I couldn't really get it explained simpler, so if the point eludes you again I'll just assume your only intention in this thread being trollbaiting

 

Didn't even bother reading. Agree to Disagree. Thank you.